Studs and Duds Packers vs Browns pre wk 1

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HardRightEdge

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The Packers need to keep Micah Hyde period. He's one of the most versatile players on the roster and he's got play making ability. His diving int. Reminded me of how Woodson used to do it. Kept the Browns from at least 3 points. He may not be the cover guy Shileds is but the fact that he can play the ANY position in the secondary and be effective in the return game makes him a priority.
Hyde's a good, versatile player.

Consider that the Chargers paid Casey Hayward $15.3 mil over 3 years with $6.8 mil guaranteed. His sole utility is as a nickel back, and that's where the Chargers will play him unless there's an injury on the perimeter.

I doubt the Packers can keep Hyde as a financial consideration.
 

Arthur Squires

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If Bulaga misses many games because of injury again, his days in the Green and Gold could be numbered as well. Cap hit would have to be swallowed though.
Having Spriggs being their in case of an injury to Bulaga is settling. Barclay is a disaster at RT or at least has been. Still anxious to get a look at Tyler Murphy this preseason. I believe he can be a solid Tackle also. Not as polished as Spriggs but he's talented.
 

Arthur Squires

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Hyde's a good, versatile player.

Consider that the Chargers paid Casey Hayward $15.3 mil over 3 years with $6.8 mil guaranteed. His sole utility is as a nickel back, and that's where the Chargers will play him unless there's an injury on the perimeter.

I doubt the Packers can keep Hyde as a financial consideration.
I agree, with other teams seeing how versatile Hyde is he is going to be pricey to bring back. Not to mention I think he's poised for a stellar year. If somehow we could sign him for what SD payed Hayward then thats groovy in my opinion. But I dont believe that will happen with a few teams out there looking for what Hyde brings to the table.
 

rodell330

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Can you explain why you think Bak is Garbage? By no means can I say that is true. He is a young left Tackle heading into a contract year. I'm willing to bet he has a stellar year and gets voted Top 100 players next year by his peers. Plenty of teams would love to have him as their LT, which may show next offseason.


Can you watch his game tape?? And top 100 players? Heck no man. I'll take that bet tho .
 
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HardRightEdge

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I agree, with other teams seeing how versatile Hyde is he is going to be pricey to bring back. Not to mention I think he's poised for a stellar year. If somehow we could sign him for what SD payed Hayward then thats groovy in my opinion. But I dont believe that will happen with a few teams out there looking for what Hyde brings to the table.
Further, Hyde's value as a punt returner has been forgotten because of last season's low 5.8 yd. average. My post-season observation somewhere in these pages was that the punt return blocking was poor, and Zook said as much in a recent packers.com video.

Despite it all, I don't believe there is any scenario where the Packer can pay Hyde anything close to what the Chargers paid Hayward short of some tragic career ending injury or a surprise cut of a core player that clears enough cap space.
 
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HardRightEdge

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I can watch his tape. Maybe you should watch it again! When healthy he's effective.
"Effective" or "adequate", nowhere near top 100 and never will be. Decent pass blocker when he doesn't get flagged for holding; falls short in the run game.

Unfortunately, "adequate" LTs get paid very good money. The Packers drafted Spriggs for an evident, very specific reason. He doesn't look like anything but a LT. Based on the early returns of one preseason game, this may well be another draft where the 2nd. pick yields more value than the 1st.
 
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Curly Calhoun

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To quote "Packer Notes" writer Michael Rodney, analyzing an exhibition game is not unlike reviewing a rock concert after listening to the sound check. That said, my takeaway from the Packers-Browns game was how much Green Bay targeted the various tight ends that played. I hope this is a theme that they continue to develop.

I'm not getting too excited about anyone who "looked good" against second, third and fourth stringers - it doesn't always translate to solid play against A-level talent. Pre-season is fun to watch, but let's not get carried away.
 
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HardRightEdge

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To quote "Packer Notes" writer Michael Rodney, analyzing an exhibition game is not unlike reviewing a rock concert after listening to the sound check. That said, my takeaway from the Packers-Browns game was how much Green Bay targeted the various tight ends that played. I hope this is a theme that they continue to develop.

I'm not getting too excited about anyone who "looked good" against second, third and fourth stringers - it doesn't always translate to solid play against A-level talent. Pre-season is fun to watch, but let's not get carried away.
A more apt analogy: after the first series or two, it resembles a college all-star game.

Guys are fighting for a jobs; there are things to take away from how guys move, run, react, execute fundamentals or flash something worth noting.

Rodney's analogy goes to the point of preseason team performance relative to regular season performance. There are reasons to think that rookie QBs of undistinguished provenance playing with other rookies and guys on the bubble would be game managing and just trying to move the chains. Aaron Rodgers dinking and dunking to TEs all day is not something you'll ever see. He's been in the league for a decade, and he's been inclined throughout to pass up the safe short throw for a chance at a bigger chunk of yardage.

TE productivity will be largely dependent on the players' ability to get open downfield.
 
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GBkrzygrl

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I think Adams only played one series and wasn't targeted at all. It was pretty obvious Callahan was primarily looking to attack the Browns defense over the middle looking for the team's tight ends.

It looked to me like MM was purposefully calling plays for the tight ends. Cook looked great the few times he played. Definitely thought Perillo stepped up and Lacy looked pretty good.
 

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It looked to me like MM was purposefully calling plays for the tight ends. Cook looked great the few times he played. Definitely thought Perillo stepped up and Lacy looked pretty good.
I recall the TV guys saying MM intended to go run heavy on his calls as that is one thing they can't do much of in practice. Passing plays they can because there isn't as much contact and chance of injury. I would think TE passes are more a part of the run game. Also he had only two UDFA QB rookies to use. They probably don't know all that much.
 

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"Effective" or "adequate", nowhere near top 100 and never will be. Decent pass blocker when he doesn't get flagged for holding; falls short in the run game.

Unfortunately, "adequate" LTs get paid very good money. The Packers drafted Spriggs for an evident, very specific reason. He doesn't look like anything but a LT. Based on the early returns of one preseason game, this may well another draft where the 2nd. pick yields more value than the 1st.
I have strongly considered the letting Bahk go scenario. Spriggs looking good only adds fuel to the fire... But lts take time to develope a lt....i strongly believe we would regret letting him go... He will be a very good lt very soon imo.
Spriggs is a high quality tackle for back up. And is not a waste until his rookie contract is up...
 

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To quote "Packer Notes" writer Michael Rodney, analyzing an exhibition game is not unlike reviewing a rock concert after listening to the sound check. That said, my takeaway from the Packers-Browns game was how much Green Bay targeted the various tight ends that played. I hope this is a theme that they continue to develop.

I'm not getting too excited about anyone who "looked good" against second, third and fourth stringers - it doesn't always translate to solid play against A-level talent. Pre-season is fun to watch, but let's not get carried away.
I dont like the analogy. I agree we dont know how good the packers will be this season based on an early preseason game, but we can sure evaluate the abilities of individual players. Personally, I saw lots of positives from the game. There was more hustle, more aggressiveness out there. In particular I saw talented play from rookies Spriggs, Lowry, Frack, and Martinez. I think Cook may provide a nice boost for the offense. I think datone jones may have picked up his game a notch.

Although looking great in a preseason game is not the end all be all, it beats the hell out of playing like crap.
 

RicFlairoftheNFL

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I liked Bradford's play. Wasn't expecting that good of a game from him. Would've liked to see more of and also OUT OF Martinez. Then again 11 snaps doesn't allow much.

My Dud though is the offense. Yes Jordy is down, and Cobb, and Aaron and Brett etc...but 5 years ago when we were THE elite team in the league our practice squad guys coulda whupped Cleveland forget about 2s and 3s. Very underwhelmed by this performance.
 
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Trevor Davis made some nice grabs and showed he has strength in his hands. Im most excited to see more of Kyler Fackrell who had a gorgeous sack last night. Also Carl Bradford who finally steppes up and made some plays. Jason Spriggs did a nice job from what i could tell. He is definitely our Tackle of the future.

I wasn't that impressed with Davis and while Fackrell had a nice sack he will most likely be red shirted in his rookie season.

It wouldnt hurt my feelings to keep bahk and have 3 good tackles.

As long as Spriggs proves to be a decent left tackle the Packers should use the cap space necessary to re-sign Bakhtiari on other players.

If Bulaga misses many games because of injury again, his days in the Green and Gold could be numbered as well. Cap hit would have to be swallowed though.

Releasing Bulaga after the 2016 season would only result in $3 million of cap savings. Without having a decent backup at right tackle and the move resulting in $4.8 million dead money I don't see it happening.

I agree, with other teams seeing how versatile Hyde is he is going to be pricey to bring back. Not to mention I think he's poised for a stellar year. If somehow we could sign him for what SD payed Hayward then thats groovy in my opinion. But I dont believe that will happen with a few teams out there looking for what Hyde brings to the table.

With limited cap space available in 2017 Hyde most likely will price himself out of Green Bay.

My Dud though is the offense. Yes Jordy is down, and Cobb, and Aaron and Brett etc...but 5 years ago when we were THE elite team in the league our practice squad guys coulda whupped Cleveland forget about 2s and 3s. Very underwhelmed by this performance.

The record breaking 2011 offense only averaged 22.3 points in the preseason. There's no reason to get concerned about the offense playing the third and fourth quarterback as well as not having the team's top receivers on the field not putting up a ton of points.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Releasing Bulaga after the 2016 season would only result in $3 million of cap savings. Without having a decent backup at right tackle and the move resulting in $4.8 million dead money I don't see it happening.
This illustrates how limiting dead cap is only the first line defense. When push comes to shove, the question is whether you can replace performance for an amount lesser than the cap savings. That's not going to happen in Bulaga's case unless he suffers a career threatening or ending injury, such as a bad ACL tear to one of those already damaged knees.

There's an intangible factor beyond how play grading scores. With the free agency situation on the O-Line, Bulaga is a guy who can fill the leadership vacuum if it comes to that. The guy is a warrior, and he never squawked when his LT window was closed.
 

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I dont like the analogy. I agree we dont know how good the packers will be this season based on an early preseason game, but we can sure evaluate the abilities of individual players. Personally, I saw lots of positives from the game. There was more hustle, more aggressiveness out there. In particular I saw talented play from rookies Spriggs, Lowry, Frack, and Martinez. I think Cook may provide a nice boost for the offense. I think datone jones may have picked up his game a notch.

Although looking great in a preseason game is not the end all be all, it beats the hell out of playing like crap.

Certainly is all a matter of degree, but I think the point of the analogy is that the best you can hope to see is if the band can do the technical things without having to put it all together as a group to make music. When trying to evaluate even individual players, the point that was made is the level of competition. If I'm matched against a real dud, I'll not only accomplish more, I'll feel better about it and look better.

The second paragraph sums it up for me. You may not be able to tell how good a player is, but you certainly can tell if he's bad.
 
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HardRightEdge

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Certainly is all a matter of degree, but I think the point of the analogy is that the best you can hope to see is if the band can do the technical things without having to put it all together as a group to make music. When trying to evaluate even individual players, the point that was made is the level of competition. If I'm matched against a real dud, I'll not only accomplish more, I'll feel better about it and look better.

The second paragraph sums it up for me. You may not be able to tell how good a player is, but you certainly can tell if he's bad.
It is largely a war attrition where not doing obviously bad things ends up being a plus in a competitive situation. And level of competition certainly needs to be considered.

While you can't just look at the box score, see this guy had a sack, that guy make a pick, this other guy caught a TD pass and call it good, you can look at how how he did it.

Take Hyde's pick, as one example. Whether the fault was the QB's or the receiver's, the fact of the matter is the opponent made a mistake. Would we say Hyde "made the play". Not really. What he did do is make a play on a free ball when the opportunity presented itself against first string players. You would not put it on par with a guy taking a contested ball on a good throw. And that's consistent with what we know about him...a steady, opportunistic DB who doesn't make many mistakes, but we would not consider him a play maker.

Take Fackrell's sack as another example. The OT #69 was Erle Ladson, a UDFA who been bouncing around training camps and practice squads for 3 years. On this particular play, for some inexplicable reason, Ladson's first step was to an inside setup, giving away the edge, and could not recover. That's opportunistic on Fackrell's part. It sure beats falling down or whiffing on the QB. But how often are first string opponents going to make that kind of mistake? Not often. The one thing I take away from that play is Fackrell's quick hand work shoving off the out of position tackle. The fact it was a sack is not very relevant.

Take Ringo's sack as another example. That was a sh*tty block as well. But Ringo showed good quickness looping inside. That's something to file away for some future compare and contrast, and to see if it can be repeated. Again, the fact it ended in a sack is not particularly relevant.
 

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I liked Bradford's play. Wasn't expecting that good of a game from him. Would've liked to see more of and also OUT OF Martinez. Then again 11 snaps doesn't allow much.

My Dud though is the offense. Yes Jordy is down, and Cobb, and Aaron and Brett etc...but 5 years ago when we were THE elite team in the league our practice squad guys coulda whupped Cleveland forget about 2s and 3s. Very underwhelmed by this performance.

Interestingly, the Packers played Cleveland in the preseason during the Super Bowl season and lost. Wouldn't put much stock into the offense not scoring much the first preseason game with practice squad QBs.
 

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I wouldn't put much, if any, stock in pre season games as to what kind of team you have or what their chances are for the season.
 

RRyder

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I wouldn't put much, if any, stock in pre season games as to what kind of team you have or what their chances are for the season.

Yep. Pretty sure I remember the Lions going undefeated in preseason only to follow it up with an 0-16 regular season
 

PackerDNA

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My favorite example-being from New Jersey and surrounded by Giants fans- is back in the '60's (66 or 67?), when the Giants went 6-0 in preseason. All their fans were talking title. They went 1-12-1.
 

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