1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

So, Favre the Best QB of all time?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by PackersRS, Nov 4, 2009.

?

Favre the Best QB of all time?

  1. Yes

    16 vote(s)
    39.0%
  2. No

    25 vote(s)
    61.0%
  1. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    766
    Ratings:
    +1
    And it was a viking fan who had to mention his name as in me. Sounds like there is alot of young Packer fans on here without mentioning his name. Those are the real glory days of the pack since Green Bay is called Title town because of guys like bart Starr and not Brett favre
     
  2. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    509
    Ratings:
    +3
    Bart Starr: (Team|Games|Comp/Att|%|Y/A|TD|INT|Rush/Yards|TD)

    1956 gnb | 9 | 24/44 54.5 - 325 Yds 7.4 Y/A 2TD 3INT | 5/35 0TD
    1957 gnb | 12 | 117/215 54.4 - 1489 Yds 6.9 Y/A 8TD 10INT | 31/98 3TD
    1958 gnb | 12 | 78/157 49.7 - 875 Yds 5.6 3TD 12INT | 25/113 1TD
    1959 gnb | 12 | 70/134 52.2 - 972 Yds 7.3 6TD 7INT | 16/83 0TD
    1960 gnb | 12 | 98/172 57.0 - 1358 Yds 7.9 4TD 8INT | 7/12 0TD
    1961 gnb | 14 | 172 295 58.3 -2418 Yds 8.2 16TD 16INT | 12/56 1TD
    1962 gnb | 14 | 178 285 62.5 - 2438 Yds 8.6 12TD 9INT | 21/72 1TD
    1963 gnb | 13 | 132 244 54.1 - 1855 Yds 7.6 15TD 10INT | 13/116 0TD
    1964 gnb | 14 | 163 272 59.9 - 2144 Yds 7.9 15TD 4INT | 24/165 3TD
    1965 gnb | 14 | 140 251 55.8 - 2055 Yds 8.2 16TD 9INT | 18/169 1TD
    1966 gnb | 14 | 156 251 62.2 - 2257 Yds 9.0 14TD 3INT | 21/104 2TD
    1967 gnb | 14 | 115 210 54.8 - 1823 Yds 8.7 9TD 17INT | 21/90 0TD
    1968 gnb | 12 | 109 171 63.7 - 1617 Yds 9.5 15TD 8INT | 11/62 1TD
    1969 gnb | 14 | 92 148 62.2 - 1161 Yds 7.8 9TD 6INT | 7/60 0TD
    1970 gnb | 14 | 140 255 54.9 - 1645 Yds 6.5 8TD 13INT | 12/62 1TD
    1971 gnb | 4 | 24/45 53.3 286 Yds 6.4 Yds 0TD 3INT | 3/11 1TD


    Totals:
    198 Games - 1808/3149 57.4 - 24718 Yds 7.8 Y/A
    152 TD 138 INT - 247/1308 15 TD

    7 Winning Seasons out of 16

    Play Off Record:

    1960 (0-1), 1961 (1-0), 1962 (1-0), 1965 (2-0), 1966 (2-0), 1967 (3-0)

    6 Play Off Appearances in 16 Seasons ...

    (37.5%) - 2 Super Bowl Wins - 1 MWP Award

    * Yes Bart Starr "only" played 2 Super Bowls ... (Super Bowl I and II), which is why I don't "count" the previous 3 "Championships" ...

    Average pr year: (16 seasons)

    16 Games - 113/197 57.36% - 1545 Yds
    10 TD 9 INT - 16/82 0.94 TD


    Brett Favre:

    1991 atl | 2 | 0/5 0.0 - 0 0.0 Yrds 0TD 2INT | 0/0 0TD
    1992 gnb | 15 | 302/471 64.1 3227 6.9 Yds 18TD 13INT | 47/198 1TD
    1993 gnb | 16 | 318/522 60.9 3303 6.3 Yds 19TD 24INT | 58/216 1TD
    1994 gnb | 16 | 363/582 62.4 3882 6.7 Yds 33TD 14INT | 42/202 2TD
    1995 gnb | 16 | 359/570 63.0 4413 7.7 Yds 38TD 13INT | 39/181 3TD
    1996 gnb | 16 | 325/543 59.9 3899 7.2 Yds 39TD 13INT | 49/136 2TD
    1997 gnb | 16 | 304/513 59.3 3867 7.5 Yds 35TD 16INT | 58/187 1TD
    1998 gnb | 16 | 347/551 63.0 4212 7.6 Yds 31TD 23INT | 40/133 1TD
    1999 gnb | 16 | 341/595 57.3 4091 6.9 Yds 22TD 23INT | 28/142 0TD
    2000 gnb | 16 | 338/580 58.3 3812 6.6 Yds 20TD 16INT | 27/108 0TD
    2001 gnb | 16 | 314/510 61.6 3921 7.7 Yds 32TD 15INT | 38/56 1TD
    2002 gnb | 16 | 341/551 61.9 3658 6.6 Yds 27TD 16INT | 25/73 0TD
    2003 gnb | 16 | 308/471 65.4 3361 7.1 Yds 32TD 21INT | 18/15 0TD
    2004 gnb | 16 | 346/540 64.1 4088 7.6 Yds 30TD 17INT | 16/36 0TD
    2005 gnb | 16 | 372/607 61.3 3881 6.4 Yds 20TD 29INT | 18/62 0TD
    2006 gnb | 16 | 343/613 56.0 - 3885 Yds 6.3 18TD 18 INT | 16/23 1TD
    2007 gnb | 16 | 356/535 66.5 - 4155 Yds 7.8 28TD 15 INT | 29/12 0TD
    2008 nyj | 16 | 343/522 65.7 - 3472 Yds 6,7 22TD 22INT | 21/43 1TD
    *2009 min | 8 | 174/256 68.0 - 1925 Yds 7.5 16TD 3INT | 5/-2 0TD

    Totals:

    281 Games - 5894/9536 61.8 - 67052 Yds 7.0
    480 TD 313 INT |581/1827 14TD

    Not counting Current Season, - Totals:


    273 Games - 5720/9280 61.6 - 65127 Yds 7.0
    466 TD 310 INT | 576/1829 14 TD

    Play Off Record:

    1993 (1-1), 1994 (1-1), 1995 (2-1), 1996 (3-0), 1997 (2-1), 1998 (0-1), 2001 (1-1), 2002 (0-1), 2003 (1-1), 2004 (0-1), 2007 (1-1)

    11 Play Off Appearances in 17 Seasons ...

    (64.71%) - 1 Super Bowl Win/1 Super Bowl Loss - 3 (Consecutive) MVP Awards

    Average pr. Year: (Not counting current Season) (17 Seasons)

    16 Games - 337/546 61.7 - 3821
    28 TD 19 INT | 34/108 0.82 TD


    Please note the 2004 season where Green Bay went 4-12 ... - Much like alot are "defending" Rodgers these past 2 seasons ... You should not Favre's stats in *that* particular season as well ...

    Bart may have won *One* more Super Bowl, however, looking at the stats ... and also the commentaries from that time ... it says more about the overall competition of that times NFL than it does about the "Supremacy" of Green Bay back then ...

    Bart Starr was a GREAT Quarterback, however ... I still think Favre is better ...
     
  3. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    766
    Ratings:
    +1
    The game has revolved for the hundreth time, Not the same NFL or football in general in that era. Bart Starr was before your time so really you have no knowledge of Bart Starr and what he accomplished. Just looking up stats is not telling the story as back in the day running the ball was how the game was played.BTW the NFL championship was the SuberBowl so you discard Starr's titles in those games? The Superbowl name was thought up by Lamar Hunt to pit the AFL champion against the NFL champion. Bart Starr won those titles so you can't discard those
     
  4. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    509
    Ratings:
    +3
    First ... Since you seem to like the "Age-Card" ... it's *Evolved*, NOT "revolved" ... - which implies something totally different ...

    Second, I'm not looking at stats alone ... - Granted that Bart Starr won 5 (NFL) Championships ... - which of those 2 were "Super Bowls" ...

    - However as I clearly wrote in my post ... out of 6 Play Off Appearances ... - where as the previous 3 were only ONE single game played to determine the "Winner" ...

    It would actually indicate that *during* those 6 Play Off seasons ... The Packers actually had a pretty DOMINANT team (compared to the rest of the NFL *back then*) ..., because out of 16 Total Season ... The Packers *back then* "only" (but still very impressive) "only" went into the play offs 6 times ... Not to mention the (relative) low amount of Winning Seasons ...

    For some one who tries to be condesending ... you are not doing a very good job at checking your *own* "facts" ...

    The Packers since *That Time* has NEVER been as dominant, save for maybe a couple of seasons all together ...

    Which is why I *still* rate Favre as the "Better" Quarterback when comparing him to Bart Starr ...


    *Edit*

    - I may be from Europe ... But to think that makes me "ignorant" of Football ... would be a mistake ... Especially when it comes to the Packers ...
     
  5. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    766
    Ratings:
    +1
    Aw lol oh-oh the spelling police is here, since your just a young puppy you have Favre is the greatest but really Green Bay was title town when bart Starr was the QB so really your stas do not compare as Starr threw about half as much than Favre and back in the days rules have changed with the roughing the passer calls and the pro QB-WR calls downfield. Favre would of got picked off alot more with the defensive play of that day.
     
  6. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2008
    Messages:
    8,471
    Ratings:
    +979
    You forgot to mention that Starr won both SB MVPs the SBs he played. He was the BEST PLAYER OF THAT GB PACKERS TEAM! And also that he has the best playoff rating of all qb of any time... HE IS THE BEST QUARTERBACK IN THE PLAYOFFS OF ALL TIME!

    It was a good compilation, but you need to portrait the whole picture.

    Opinion is an opinion, if you think Favre was better, that's fine. But present all the stats. Do not just "cut" the Championships he won. Do not just "cut" the SuperBowl MVPs he won. And, for the sake of mantaining you credibility, DO NOT SAY THAT WHEN FAVRE WON IT WAS BECAUSE OF HIM, AND WHEN STARR WON IT WAS BECAUSE OF THE TEAM!

    1996 SB WINNING GB PACKERS:
    #1
    Defense
    #1 ST
    #5 Offense (#5 in passing, #11 in rushing)

    It seems, to me, that when he indeed won the SB, he concidentally had THE BEST defense and THE BEST Special Teams in the league...
     
  7. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    509
    Ratings:
    +3

    How many of Bart Starrs games have you seen, because I've been very priviledged to have seen some of them ... As well as spoken with several people who were actually present during those games also ...

    Again ... I didn't just look at the stats ... I was looking at the context of the stats ...

    Just because I'm younger than you ... doesn't mean that *You* *might* know more or better than me ... when in fact ... your postings would suggest that you don't ...

    NOR am I saying that *I* know more or better than you ..., however, IF you are going to argue your point ... atleast try to be more factual and less condecending ...
     
  8. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    766
    Ratings:
    +1
    No wonder you guys hate viking fans after reading Quientus and jeffQuery. Those two are a trip. They end their posts like they have won an arguement with no room for debate. Sad thing is those guys have most likely had no idea who Bart Starr was until the googled his name
     
  9. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    766
    Ratings:
    +1
    Sure you were
     
  10. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    509
    Ratings:
    +3

    I think you are confusing *my* post with someone elses ...

    I've just argued as to *why* I think and consider Favre a better player ...

    7 Play Off Appearences ... - out of those 7 ... 5 resulted in a Championship Win ... - That would suggest a pretty dominant team in those years ... especially considering they were (almost) consecutive ...

    Comparing that to the 1996 Team ... - Yes the 1996 team was Great ... and they were great in 1997 - and could have won a 2nd Super Bowl as well ... - Only Denver and Elway were the better team and player on *that* particular day (I remember that day very well, because I was deployed in Bosnia at the time, and we were only a handfull that rooted for the Packers ... among 500 other US Marines ... haha)

    However, looking further ... NOT since then ... did the Packers have such a (apparently) dominant team ...

    Again ... I'm looking into the context of the stats ... not *just* at the stats ... - which would actually seem that you are doing more than me ...




    1) I'm not a Vikings Fan ...

    2) I'm a football fan ... who have a few teams I prefer more than others ...

    3) Obviously you don't read all too well ... Because if you did ... You wouldn't be spewing forth that nonsense ...

    4) Just because I wasn't born when Bart Starr was active doesn't mean I haven't watched some of those games he played ... - Your rebuttal is quientessential of those that cannot continue to argue or discuss a topic in a "sober" and coherent manner, without becoming condesending (because you are older) and think that just because you are older, that you know better than those that are not the same age as you ...
     
  11. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    766
    Ratings:
    +1
    I am just saying your too young to of watched bart Starr as he was done in 71 is all.
     
  12. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    509
    Ratings:
    +3

    You do realize there are those people who still have (film) footage of those games ? ... - Same people who were actually watching the games at the stadium ... and who have been Packers Supporters for as long as I have known them ... And those are the same people whom I visit a couple of times every year ... and every time we discuss football ... and I get to "pick" their minds and hear their experiences ... and they tell it with such enthusiasm that you think you had been there ...
     
  13. angryguy77

    angryguy77 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2008
    Messages:
    384
    Ratings:
    +2

    Bart Starr had #1 Coach of all time. We can sit here all day and bring other factores into all of the states and wins.

    Here is a question: Who would you rather have Russell or Jordan?
    Different sport but there is a correlation.
     
  14. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    509
    Ratings:
    +3

    I don't really consider any SB MVP as much as a regular season MVP ... Because the MVP Title during the Super Bowl is a "one game perfomance title", as well as being somewhat about popularity also ...


    I didn't just "cut" the titles ... however, when the championship is decided in ONE single game following the regular season ... with no "quarter finals" or semi finals, I just don't "value" those as much as when a team has to win several games consecutive to even be able to contend in the Super Bowl, nor the (todays) NFC/AFC Championship game ...

    In essence that would be discussing this:

    Imagine if the Packers (with Favre) had gone into the NFL Championship game based on the regular season alone and only had to play one single "make or break" game ... in order to win or lose the Title ...

    Just as if people were saying the opposite about Starr ...

    I've not once contested the greatness of Starr ... - Even though you certainly seem to try to think I did, - I was giving *MY* reasoning and arguements as to *WHY* *I* consider Favre to be the better quarterback of those two ...
     
  15. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    766
    Ratings:
    +1
    I see, Sorry i think tour lying if your trying to tell me and everybody else that you have studied Bart Starr by watching old films. Those old films are hard to come by since the NFL owns those old films.( Not too many digital cameras back in the day) I was in the stands watching Starr and your were hearing about those games from enthusiastic fans and you have the upperhand in a strong arguement for Brett favre?
     
  16. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    509
    Ratings:
    +3

    I really don't care what you think ... - Whether or not you believe me or not, is really besides the point ... As there is no way I can convince you.

    I've never said *I* had the "upper hand" ... in any discussion, however, I was arguing your retorics and logic ... - And whenever people does that ... you most often start to become condesending and "better-knowing", using your age as the reason, - and that is just not enough ...
     
  17. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    766
    Ratings:
    +1
    I have seen so many more great QB's than you to tell you the truth so Brett favre has many strong arguements but so do so many. Griese,Bradshaw, Tarkenton, Stabler, Plunkett Jurgenson, killmer all have arguements
     
  18. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    766
    Ratings:
    +1
    #1 coach of all time? Wow, that is a reach of epic proportians. Lombardi was a great coach but Landry,Grant,Parcells,george Allen and countless others could be in the mix for that award
     
  19. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    509
    Ratings:
    +3

    Ok, I'll indulge you ...

    While I can agree on your arguement on Tarkenton (- however still I don't think Tarkenton even comes close to Favre ... - Not to mention Griese, I'm really surprised you would even bring up those names, when we are discussing "All time Greats" ... - but those 2 I atleast can understand ...)

    But please tell me as to why you would include Stabler, Plunkett Jurgenson and Killmer in this same arguement ... Honestly it sounds like more and more that you are are arguing, just to argue a point, rather than argue something factual and specific ...
     
  20. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    766
    Ratings:
    +1
    because at the time they were way ahead of the curve and won Superbowls(except for tark and plunk). Bradshaw has a hand full of rings and favre does not. I am just trying to say you could fill in the blank as great QB's in the NFL. Namath,Unitas are acouple more names along with Young,Montana,Simms,kenny Anderson,otto graham so really to Put Favre at the head of the pack of all time great QB's is being short sighted
     
  21. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,743
    Ratings:
    +2,983
    just want to say Skol..

    I knew you could be a great poster here!
     
  22. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2009
    Messages:
    509
    Ratings:
    +3
    Joe Namath ...
    Unitas ...

    Again, those 2 I can actually understand ... more than Tarkenton actually ..., however ... Simms ??? Kenny Anderson ??? Otto Graham ???

    You aren't even looking into the context of stats, but merely putting out names, just for the sake of arguement ...

    Again ... Seems like you are more trying to argue just for the sake of arguement than anything ...
     
  23. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    766
    Ratings:
    +1
    I am just saying you can't compare great qb's as those guys that you are dismissing are HALL of FAME qb's which makes them pretty good. And most have the rings to back up their claim. I am not argueing with you but really too many things to look at to pick the greastest QB of all time.So far on this poll he is loseing so I would guess most are opening up their minds instead of saying their favorite QB as you seem to be
     
  24. Packer 007

    Packer 007 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2009
    Messages:
    49
    Ratings:
    +0
    So many variables, I couldn't say.

    Favre, personally, has a problem though if the Queens flop in the playoffs.

    All the money in the world doesn't match the ego. He gave up the idol worship for this opportunity. Will it be worth it to him?

    Maybe a Super Bowl makes it worth it, but anything less, whoops.
     
  25. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2009
    Messages:
    766
    Ratings:
    +1
    Super bowl or bust? The Vikings have a shot this year but I doubt it will be seen as a failure if they come up short. with the pack and Bears loseing today i would say the Vikings have the north but we have to get homefield advantage to have a shot.
     

Share This Page