Ravens duds and studs

[milani]

Funniest thing I've heard about this game is Tom Grossi saying that the Packers run defense let down Aaron Rodgers one last time.

We could have returned the favor.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I don't know if Hafley is a dud. You can only work with what ya got. This defense is a shell of what it once was.

I recall a couple of years ago when the 49ers got decimated like this. Going into that season they were SB favorites. If memory serves they missed the playoffs completely. You can overcome only so many injury hits. It really sucks.

Yeah the same thing happened to Detroit last year. I think they had lost 5 or 6 starters on defense. They still won 15 games but were pounded by the Commanders and were one-and-done. It didn't get any better this year, losing Branch and Joseph and a starting OL (retired) from last season.

Anyway, Hafley is a long way from being a dud. Just the opposite. I am surprised the D performed so well against the Bears strong run game, only to wither and die versus the Ravens and Henry.

Just gimme a first-round-playoff win against the Bears and I'll go home happy.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Funniest thing I've heard about this game is Tom Grossi saying that the Packers run defense let down Aaron Rodgers one last time.

That is hilarious. And yeah, we owe Rodgers a favor after the Steelers beat the Lions.

The Steelers/Ravens game is must-watch stuff. They play well with Huntley as starter.

 

[milani]

Yeah the same thing happened to Detroit last year. I think they had lost 5 or 6 starters on defense. They still won 15 games but were pounded by the Commanders and were one-and-done. It didn't get any better this year, losing Branch and Joseph and a starting OL (retired) from last season.

Anyway, Hafley is a long way from being a dud. Just the opposite. I am surprised the D performed so well against the Bears strong run game, only to wither and die versus the Ravens and Henry.

Just gimme a first-round-playoff win against the Bears and I'll go home happy.

The Bears put up 38 and were about to add to it last night. Against us the reason they got what they did was because of an onside kick. I admit that they were without Luther Burden.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Dud: Hafley The Packers were probably fully aware that they would be facing a Ravens team without Lamar Jackson. What should that mean for the Packer defense? Prepare for a LOT of Henry, short passes and QB draws from Huntley.

I am not an X and O guy but way too many times I saw Hafley line his defense up with 1 guy (Walker) standing alone in the middle of the field. I mean WTF Jeff? Our DL can barely stop small backs when they run up the middle, you really expect to contain Henry in that formation? He really didn't expect that Huntley wouldn't be licking his chops when he sees Walker standing all alone in the middle of the field? In the 2nd half, Hafley did make an adjustment for awhile, and crowded 3 LB's into the middle and it was more effective in stopping Henry and Huntley. Then they got away from it again and left Walker alone to cover the middle.

Edgerrin Cooper looked lost last night.

When was the last Packer sack in a game?

When was the last time that the Packer defense actually forced a turnover?

Is Xavier McKinney still on the field? I rarely see him in any plays.

I have my issues with MLF and his play calling, but last night the defense clearly lost the game for the Packers. Not sure why there is all this chatter about Hafley being hired as a HC. After last night, I question what he can do as a DC.

Hafley will get his HC opportunity next year. One bad game won't derail that.

I'm disappointed that he didn't make adjustments, either during the game or at half time, to address the Ravens' running game. You're right, a lone LB against a runner like Henry is foolish. The Ravens were not gonna throw the ball and the Packers D gave them no reason to change their collective mind.

What made it even more frustrating was that the D game plan against the strong Bears' run game worked last week. WTF.

Willis played very well but he was auditioning and so had incentive. Other than Willis - the team and especially the D looked asleep. That will lead to a very short post season if MLF doesn't get that fixed.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Maybe. Is that saying alot?

LVN played better than a guy who will not be here next year and probably knows it. Hardly a ringing endorsement for either Gary or LVN.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Studs:

Willis - too good not to keep. Unfortunately he priced himself out of GB.

Watson - you got to hand it to him, he IS an impact player

Doubs - consistently inconsistent, but made some great catches and stretched the defense at times.

Duds:

Dline and LBs - worst performance of the year.
Oline - Rhyan is not a center - injury thrust into it.
Entire defensive backfield - chicken sht tackling and the players acted like they didnt want to be playing.

All in all, with all of the injuries, this team cannot go with 3rd and 4th string practice squad call ups. Gary and LVN just signed their tickets to be moved promptly. This was the worst defensive performance I can remember and there have been a lot of putrid samples. I accept the ridiculous excuse of too many injuries for one team to overcome. This team will not win another game regardless of who plays QB.

"Entire defensive backfield - chicken sht tackling and the players acted like they didnt want to be playing."

That's been true most of the season. Parsons masked a lot of deficiencies with the CBs by forcing QBs to throw early. Williams has been the exception at S. McKinney didn't have al All Pro year, not even close, and he dropped more INTs than I can count.

Amazing how much one guy - Parsons - affected the entire D. I think it's time to move on from Gary and LVN and find some guys who want to play football, and who have talent.

 

[Pugger]

Yeah the same thing happened to Detroit last year. I think they had lost 5 or 6 starters on defense. They still won 15 games but were pounded by the Commanders and were one-and-done. It didn't get any better this year, losing Branch and Joseph and a starting OL (retired) from last season.

Anyway, Hafley is a long way from being a dud. Just the opposite. I am surprised the D performed so well against the Bears strong run game, only to wither and die versus the Ravens and Henry.

Just gimme a first-round-playoff win against the Bears and I'll go home happy.

I wonder if we were still subconsciously reeling from that collapse in Chicago the week before?

 

[milani]

Hafley will get his HC opportunity next year. One bad game won't derail that.

I'm disappointed that he didn't make adjustments, either during the game or at half time, to address the Ravens' running game. You're right, a lone LB against a runner like Henry is foolish. The Ravens were not gonna throw the ball and the Packers D gave them no reason to change their collective mind.

What made it even more frustrating was that the D game plan against the strong Bears' run game worked last week. WTF.

Willis played very well but he was auditioning and so had incentive. Other than Willis - the team and especially the D looked asleep. That will lead to a very short post season if MLF doesn't get that fixed.

The Ravens line just blew us out of there. Surprised they did not roll over teams like that earlier even with their injuries. We did not force any turnovers. Another issue. Shootouts usually involve the passing game. The Ravens did not need to take shots. It was that easy for them.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Some here after the Parsons injury said it was basically still the exact same top defense that it was last year without Parsons.

Good point. The D was solid last year and the addition of Parsons made it a great unit.

But what happened to Cooper this year? I thought Gary, LVN, and Cooper would all see higher sack numbers. And in fairness, losing Slaton AND Clark really hurt run D, or at least it seemed that way.

But as Poker pointed out, when was the last time anyone had a sack? Hell if I can remember.

 

[GBkrzygrl]

Oh, another dud. Damn injuries. I feel terrible for Hadden. A guy who is a fringe player just doing his best to make a roster year after year and his NFL dream is most likely over now. Not a career ending injury for a starter, but likely a career ender for him.

Did one of the players step on a crack or something? Maybe someone get a voodoo doll of the players. Geez!

 

[PackerRyche]

I'd like to add one more "season-long dud" that continued in the Ravens game - kick returns, both punt and kickoff. I can't remember any kick return all season that "flipped" field position and gave the offense a short field. I think we're at the bottom of the league in punt return average. Add that team deficit to the all the others and we're in tough shape.

 

[milani]

I'd like to add one more "season-long dud" that continued in the Ravens game - kick returns, both punt and kickoff. I can't remember any kick return all season that "flipped" field position and gave the offense a short field. I think we're at the bottom of the league in punt return average. Add that team deficit to the all the others and we're in tough shape.

Our longest punt return is 20 yards and that was in WK 1 by Jayden Reed who went down 8n WK 2. Our longest KO return is 36 yards. Nothing to write home about.

 

[McKnowledge]

Yes to most of this.

I don’t really know where we go from here.

I don’t think Gute and MLF are “bad”, but I think we’re a long ways off from where we need to be to compete for Super Bowls.

I know that it sucks to start over, and I know we aren’t guaranteed to improve. I just don’t think the people in charge of our organization right now are ever going to be the ones to take that final step.

I think the cruelty of this season is realizing that Malik Willis is more effective in this offensive scheme. He is mobile, accurate, and can thrive off script. Love isn’t as mobile and not as accurate.

Malik Willis is moving onto another team due to Love’s contract being immovable until 2027.

At best, the Packers will get a 5th round compensatory pick.

Also, adding to this season spiraling is accepting that Jeff Hafley is probably moving onto another team as HC.

With Parsons coming off injury and more than likely less than 100% for next season, the defense will take a step back.

The team next season is gonna look different and I’m of the mindset that improving this team right now by filling the margins with players like Matt Judon and another DT vet could at least give this team a fighting chance in the playoffs.

 

[tynimiller]

At best, the Packers will get a 5th round compensatory pick.

So you expect him to not get much of a deal then I'm assuming?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Hafley will get his HC opportunity next year. One bad game won't derail that.

I would agree with you if it was just one bad game on defense, but that isn't the case. Micah Parsons made this Packers defense look good for several games, after that, it has been an off and on sh*t show of inconsistentcy on defense. Hafley's defense has forced the fewest fumbles in the NFL. His defense is 26th in takeaways, 20th in sacks, 19th in allowed completion % and his defense has scored ZERO points.

Most are looking at points allowed (11th), but in the last 3 games, they are 29th, having given up an ave. of 32 points/game.

Maybe he gets a HC job offer, but I sure wouldn't want him as my HC.

Hafley was 22–26 as a HC in the NCAA, that doesn't impress me much.

 

[pacmaniac]

Good point. The D was solid last year and the addition of Parsons made it a great unit.

But what happened to Cooper this year? I thought Gary, LVN, and Cooper would all see higher sack numbers. And in fairness, losing Slaton AND Clark really hurt run D, or at least it seemed that way.

But as Poker pointed out, when was the last time anyone had a sack? Hell if I can remember.

And what about Hafley emphasizing forcing fumbles. Never happened this year.

 

[Pkrjones]

Not making excuses, but as I looked across the depth chart, we’re pretty thin at DT. At least this week. Not that we have a plethora of Day1 types, but even our depth was suspect.

Brinson played ZERO and was ruled out late.

Jordon Riley (season ended in-game IR)

Stackhouse missed (illness?)

Wyatt is on IR (season ended)

Quinton Bohanna (signed in Dec 2025
and activated 12/27)



DT group consisted of
-Karl Brooks who’s primarily a 2:1 ratio Pass Rusher
-Colby Wooden (converted NT)
Jordon Riley (signed 12/3 lost to IR)
Quinton Bohanna (debut 12/27)

Supplemented by LVN, Enagbare, Gary


That’s a pretty thin IDL group with minimal experience. I think if you truly went throughout the NFL you would have a very difficult time nominating any other team that has a lesser graded iDT and just lesser experienced unit as a whole (I’m talking games logged with
Then you go up against arguably one of the top 1-3 Rushing teams leaguewide, (Ravens rank #1 in per carry) including a QB who’s thrifty on his feet. Really almost a disaster waiting to happen.

Knowing GB would face a heavy dose of the Raven run game Hafley/MLF should've had Stackhouse, Riley AND Bohana as 3 DL's, with all others rotating in. 250lb Henry with 300lb Ricard lead blocking required all 3 325lb+ DL's playing healthy amount of snaps. Almost criminal that Hafley allowed the OL's constant access to Cooper & Walker.

 

[Magooch]

It's been mentioned on in the Love thread (re: Willis comp) but the defense has been tough to evaluate IMO.

Parsons himself has been fantastic. And there have certainly been some bright moments. Overall, I think the defense "looks" better a lot of the time this year than it did last year.

But...has it been?

Last season we were 8th in yards allowed per play, this season we are 7th.

Last season we were 6th in points allowed, this season - 11th.

Last season we were 4th with 31 takeaways, this season we are 26th with just 13.

Our pass defense last year gave up 6.0 net yards per attempt, good for 11th in the league. This year that's down to 5.6 NY/A for 7th in the league.

Last season we were 3rd in rush yards per attempt, this season we've dropped to 14th

Last season our defense was 5th in expected points contribution, this season just 19th.

What about with/without Micah Parsons?

WITH Parsons playing, this season we were:
15th in defensive EPA per play
11th in defensive success rate
17th in passing EPA allowed
13th in rush EPA allowed

This season, WITHOUT Parsons, that adjusts to:
30th in defensive EPA per play
31st in defensive success rate
28th in passing EPA allowed
23rd in rush EPA allowed

And last season (obviously without Parsons):
4th in defensive EPA per play
21st in defensive success rate
4th in passing EPA allowed
8th in rush EPA allowed

In other words, by the numbers we have been minimally improved (if not worse) this season WITH Parsons, and without him we are in the running for worst defense in the league

I have been generally pleased with Hafley but I think it's safe to say the shine's worn off a bit

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Knowing GB would face a heavy dose of the Raven run game Hafley/MLF should've had Stackhouse, Riley AND Bohana as 3 DL's, with all others rotating in. 250lb Henry with 300lb Ricard lead blocking required all 3 325lb+ DL's playing healthy amount of snaps. Almost criminal that Hafley allowed the OL's constant access to Cooper & Walker.

1000%!

For years it seems like the Packers defense is so afraid of giving up a deep ball, that they play their safeties way too deep. No run support or short pass support gained by doing that.

Letting Walker patrol the middle of the field all alone against a RB like Henry and a QB like Huntley was absolutely stupid.

 

[milani]

Knowing GB would face a heavy dose of the Raven run game Hafley/MLF should've had Stackhouse, Riley AND Bohana as 3 DL's, with all others rotating in. 250lb Henry with 300lb Ricard lead blocking required all 3 325lb+ DL's playing healthy amount of snaps. Almost criminal that Hafley allowed the OL's constant access to Cooper & Walker.

But that is what they drafted for last year?

 

[McKnowledge]

So you expect him to not get much of a deal then I'm assuming?

I think Malik Willis will get a contract comparable to a low level starter. It won’t go beyond 3 years. It won’t take up more than 5% of the cap for the prospective team.

I could see a 2 year contract with incentives. He will have to continue to prove himself which I think he will.

 

[tynimiller]

But that is what they drafted for last year?

Not really - last year GB drafted not a single DL of any kind.

If speaking to this year...not really as Brinson was all we added and he's a late round flyer along the iDL

 

[milani]

Not really - last year GB drafted not a single DL of any kind.

If speaking to this year...not really as Brinson was all we added and he's a late round flyer along the iDL

What about undrafted Stackhouse?

 

[tynimiller]

I think Malik Willis will get a contract comparable to a low level starter. It won’t go beyond 3 years. It won’t take up more than 5% of the cap for the prospective team.

I could see a 2 year contract with incentives. He will have to continue to prove himself which I think he will.

Daniel Jones is looking to get the Giants a 4th. It isn't just the pay/contract although that is a large part. Amount of snaps for the team also is a factor and also the seasons they have they say.

Few examples:

Daniel Jones got $14M/1Yr and until injured was their starter - most estimate 4th round pick will happen.
Russell Wilson got $10.5M/1Yr and seems 6th is the concensus with some fairly confident sites saying 5th rounder.

Now it is VERY hard to predict what Malik gets for sure...VERY SMALL SAMPLE SIZE. But he is 26 years old currently...Jones was 28 and Wilson was 37.

Many would say worst case Malik will be viewed like Jones was on the market. Which he many forget wasn't signed to be Colts clear starter. I think Malik very well could be by a team.

I would predict Malik worst case gets $13.5M/1Yr deal or he gets a $65M/3Yr deal with only like $18.5M of it guaranteed but cap numbers would be low enough that if he plays good the team ain't letting him go anywhere after year 1.

Or does a team see him in same light as TB saw Baker....who got $100M/3Yr.

I personally think it is a crapshoot to try and pinpoint but truthfully somewhere between that Daniel Jones deal and the Baker deal is where he falls for sure IMO.