Rasul Douglas has been traded to the Bills

[gopkrs]

That doesn’t make any sense. It was Gutey that found him. He came off a PS and we got 2 years usage for peanuts. 2024 he was slated to punish our Cap at $11.2mil. Instead Buffalo picked up his contract and we sacked $864k in our Trick r Treat bag. Probably 1 of Guteys best returns on investment in his career.

Brian took a PS for peanuts who played at CB2 level to a player earning us essentially a top 100 area selection +12Mil Cap exchange over 2023-2024. In exchange for a 150 overall

Plus both Stokes and J’aire will be back next year. Plus we’ve got several new guys that look promising that need to get time.
Not to mention what that Top 100 pick will bring. A player for 4 years?

Plus you go from a team in rebuild to a Postseason favorite.
I know it’s an emotional rollercoaster this year. But there’s a business side that can’t get in the way of emotions. If I was Rasul’s agent I’d tell him to count his blessings. He has an opportunity to showcase himself on a contender. That means another lucrative contract possibly as soon as next season.

The crème topping? Gute admirably sent him as close to his Hometown as you can ask for. It’s like you getting signed in GB 2 years ago and you grew up in St Cloud MN. Pretty brilliant actually.

Yeah, $11M is quite a bit. You have a point.

 

[Sanguine camper]

As I've said before, the Packers picked up a worthless pick for Douglas. A late 3rd round pick only has worth if it used in a future trade. Gute has shown many times he can't draft 3rd round picks. The cap savings are projected at 9 million in 2024. Usefully money but it won't replace a CB2. Gute got rid of Douglas but didn't get enough compensation to replace him. Stokes can't stay healthy and Vallentine is a 7th round pick. The trade just means that Gute will once again be forced to spend a first round pick on a CB and therefore leave a gaping hole somewhere else on the roster. Trades like the one he just made for Douglas leave permanent holes in the roster. What message does the pick send to the team? If you are one of few consistently good players who shows leadership you get shipped away for peanuts. A house cleaning is in order but a rudderless franchise will go into 2024 with proven failures.

 

[Voyageur]

As I've said before, the Packers picked up a worthless pick for Douglas. A late 3rd round pick only has worth if it used in a future trade. Gute has shown many times he can't draft 3rd round picks. The cap savings are projected at 9 million in 2024. Usefully money but it won't replace a CB2. Gute got rid of Douglas but didn't get enough compensation to replace him. Stokes can't stay healthy and Vallentine is a 7th round pick. The trade just means that Gute will once again be forced to spend a first round pick on a CB and therefore leave a gaping hole somewhere else on the roster. Trades like the one he just made for Douglas leave permanent holes in the roster. What message does the pick send to the team? If you are one of few consistently good players who shows leadership you get shipped away for peanuts. A house cleaning is in order but a rudderless franchise will go into 2024 with proven failures.

I think the move with Douglas had more to do with saving money than it did in getting a pick. The pick itself, as you mentioned, does add to what we have, to move up to some point. It's hard to say.

Right now, I think they're looking at the idea that for the $11 mill next year, they can find a real savvy CB in free agency, and bundle him into a package for 3 years at that average. Douglas was at that figure next year, then out the door. Also, not young enough to give them a future with him.

Here's the Spotrac list of free agent CBs at this time for next year, and this year's salary. I think there will be younger players with as much talent as Douglas available for long term service, at the same price.

Just my guess here.

2024 NFL Free Agents Tracker

Tracking the status and signings of all 2024 NFL free agents.

www.spotrac.com

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think the move with Douglas had more to do with saving money than it did in getting a pick. The pick itself, as you mentioned, does add to what we have, to move up to some point. It's hard to say.

Right now, I think they're looking at the idea that for the $11 mill next year, they can find a real savvy CB in free agency, and bundle him into a package for 3 years at that average. Douglas was at that figure next year, then out the door. Also, not young enough to give them a future with him.

Here's the Spotrac list of free agent CBs at this time for next year, and this year's salary. I think there will be younger players with as much talent as Douglas available for long term service, at the same price.

Just my guess here.

2024 NFL Free Agents Tracker

Tracking the status and signings of all 2024 NFL free agents.

www.spotrac.com

The trade didn't "Free Up" or "Save" the Packers $11M (to spend on a CB). The Douglas trade saves the Packers about $900K this season on the salary cap and another $6.5M in savings on the 2024 cap, there is still a $5.1M dead cap hit for Douglas, which represented money that was pushed out into 2024. So if you want to view it as "money banked to put towards his replacement", it is more like $7.4M.

While it is true that Gute and the Packers seem to have struggled finding quality players in the 3rd round, I attribute that to just weird bad luck. Moving up 47 spots (by current records) is pretty decent value. Especially, when it means getting the "88th best player" VS the "135th". A draft value trade chart that I looked at values the new pick at 150 points. Packers 5th is at 38.5 points, a difference of 111.5 points or the last pick in round 3.

As some have alluded to, Gute may use that pick to move around. For instance, he could Package it with the 1st of 2 second round picks, to move back into the 1st. Right now the Packers have 8 draft picks and are being predicted to receive the following compensatory picks:

• 4th (Allen Lazard)
• 6th (Jarran Reed)
• 6th (Dean Lowry)

So 11 picks, with 6 of them most likely being high picks in their perspective round. He might even acquire more picks with trades before the draft. Gute should have a lot of ammo to move around and hopefully get some decent rookies.

 

[gopkrs]

Well, were we going to owe Douglas $11M next year or not?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well, were we going to owe Douglas $11M next year or not?

No, not Douglas himself. People have to realize that "cap hits" don't always equate to "money in players pocket". Cap hits are just accounting methods used to report to the NFL and abide by "cap rules".

 

[gopkrs]

No, not Douglas himself. People have to realize that "cap hits" don't always equate to "money in players pocket". Cap hits are just accounting methods used to report to the NFL and abide by "cap rules".

Still, the cap money is what is important. If Douglas had stayed; would we have been out $11M? Did we save $11M on cap by sending Douglas to Buffalo? If we were going to be out $11M on cap; then I can see the trade. Otherwise, no.

 

[OldSchool101]

Gute has shown many times he can't draft 3rd round picks.

The part you are ignoring is the good. While scratching the surface I’d agree the last few drafts have been underwhelming for us in RD3.

Go back and look for yourself at the full aspect of these trades. In the process of moving back with Seattle and up again, we acquired an extra 1st the following year, but used a 3rd Rounder. Those moves are silent, but factual. Really we all complain, but Jaire was actually bought with a later 3rd packaged and we got a 6th? In return. I’m going off memory here you can fact check that.

We can’t just look at the answer with Draft picks. If we’re going to pass judgement we need to look at the entire equation. So are you telling us that 3rd Rounder to get J’ was a bad move? Maybe you were just being sarcastic idk and if that’s your way of joking around I apologize.

That 2024 3rd is very valuable. This whole business about Gute can’t draft is a bit over the top though. It’s fun to joke about but all that matters is the sum of parts anyway. He got Doubs with a 4th? He got Tom in Day 3? Or wasn’t that our GM?

 

[Voyageur]

Still, the cap money is what is important. If Douglas had stayed; would we have been out $11M? Did we save $11M on cap by sending Douglas to Buffalo? If we were going to be out $11M on cap; then I can see the trade. Otherwise, no.

Unless I'm reading it wrong, his 2024 salary would be $9 mill, and the total paid including money moved, forward, and bonus, totals near $17 mill he'd be entitled to being paid. By him being gone, we have to pay him somewhat over $5 mill. It comes out to roughly an $11 mill reduction cap hit.

The way contracts are written are like Latin. Pretty darn hard to totally understand.

 

[swhitset]

No, not Douglas himself. People have to realize that "cap hits" don't always equate to "money in players pocket". Cap hits are just accounting methods used to report to the NFL and abide by "cap rules".

Well it does go into their pockets…. the question is when. People seem to get confused when a player gets paid up front money and it is the prorated out over a few years to lessen the immediate cap impact.

 

[OldSchool101]

Are you talking about Forrest Gregg? The HC with a 25-37-1 Record with the Packers? Come on man, you can do better than wishing for THAT!

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Compared to others Gregg looked fantastic! How about Linde Infante?

In 4 seasons Coaching GB in our North Division he was
5th
2nd
4th
4th

 

[Sanguine camper]

The part you are ignoring is the good. While scratching the surface I’d agree the last few drafts have been underwhelming for us in RD3.

Go back and look for yourself at the full aspect of these trades. In the process of moving back with Seattle and up again, we acquired an extra 1st the following year, but used a 3rd Rounder. Those moves are silent, but factual. Really we all complain, but Jaire was actually bought with a later 3rd packaged and we got a 6th? In return. I’m going off memory here you can fact check that.

We can’t just look at the answer with Draft picks. If we’re going to pass judgement we need to look at the entire equation. So are you telling us that 3rd Rounder to get J’ was a bad move? Maybe you were just being sarcastic idk and if that’s your way of joking around I apologize.

That 2024 3rd is very valuable. This whole business about Gute can’t draft is a bit over the top though. It’s fun to joke about but all that matters is the sum of parts anyway. He got Doubs with a 4th? He got Tom in Day 3? Or wasn’t that our GM?

No doubt Tom was a good pick but you have to look at the full body of work. Too many high draft pick busts. Sometimes the better choice was right in front of him and he got cute and it backfired. The highest rated center in the 2021draft was Creed Humphrey.Gute passed him up and took Myers instead. Gute also reaches too much. Deguara has proven he was a sixth round talent And a lot of fifth rounders are as good or better than Dillon as a second round pick.

 

[JK64]

That doesn’t make any sense. It was Gutey that found him. He came off a PS and we got 2 years usage for peanuts. 2024 he was slated to punish our Cap at $11.2mil. Instead Buffalo picked up his contract and we sacked $864k in our Trick r Treat bag. Probably 1 of Guteys best returns on investment in his career.

Actually we'll save about 6 million. 5 million is guaranteed and will count against the cap next year.

Brian took a PS for peanuts who played at CB2 level to a player earning us essentially a top 100 area selection +12Mil Cap exchange over 2023-2024. In exchange for a 150 overall

You sound like we won't have to pay a different CB next year. You can take that money and subtract it from the 6 mil owed to Douglas.
Again 6 million savings. 6 mil for a GOOD CB is peanuts in today's NFL. We already had a good CB and a good locker room guy. Now we risk that for a late late 3rd round pick, and we lose our 5th rounder. Check out the last few drafts and the 3rd rounders Gute picked.

I don't want to lose any good players, especially for a measly 6 mil.

 

[JK64]

The crème topping? Gute admirably sent him as close to his Hometown as you can ask for. It’s like you getting signed in GB 2 years ago and you grew up in St Cloud MN. Pretty brilliant actually.

Who cares about that. Pretty terrible actually.

 

[JK64]

Yeah, $11M is quite a bit. You have a point.

It's not $11M. It's 6M.

 

[milani]

Compared to others Gregg looked fantastic! How about Linde Infante?

In 4 seasons Coaching GB in our North Division he was
5th
2nd
4th
4th

Gregg's team hovered around .500 while he was there. He was intent on building a run game in between the tackles. His tenure came during those great defensive Bear teams.

 

[OldSchool101]

I think the move with Douglas had more to do with saving money than it did in getting a pick. The pick itself, as you mentioned, does add to what we have, to move up to some point. It's hard to say.

Right now, I think they're looking at the idea that for the $11 mill next year, they can find a real savvy CB in free agency, and bundle him into a package for 3 years at that average. Douglas was at that figure next year, then out the door. Also, not young enough to give them a future with him.

Here's the Spotrac list of free agent CBs at this time for next year, and this year's salary. I think there will be younger players with as much talent as Douglas available for long term service, at the same price.

Just my guess here.

2024 NFL Free Agents Tracker

Tracking the status and signings of all 2024 NFL free agents.

www.spotrac.com

Yeah in a rebuild ideally we want to be adding young players. Ideally a player getting his 2nd contract or closer to that. Now there’s a few core players you keep around, plus a few players you can’t unload quite yet for contractual obligations. Bakh being a good example.

 

[OldSchool101]

Actually we'll save about 6 million. 5 million is guaranteed and will count against the cap next year.

Yes. Plus the 865K now.
Ok that site I was on didn’t show the SUNK in a pre-June trade, so let’s assume that is true.
Even that is still $6.9M more cap for a player who will be 29 yrs old before next regular season starts. He’s not part of a long term strategy when we’re clearly rebuilding. Rebuilding means clearing Cap and getting younger, not pushing $11.1mil onto our future ledger?stunting growth in a lost season and overlapping Perimeter CB’s. Are we going to sit Stokes next year?

There’s lots of internal plans and not all include going into FA to get another CB.

Some people are saying we have to go FA to immediately $BUY$ a CB2 and that’s not true at all. The only way that argument happens is IF we go FA. I highly doubt that happens, at least at perimeter CB. Should we bench Stokes next year? and if something changes and it does happen? That guy will 100% chance be younger than 30 years old next year. Sure would be nice to tell a new DC he’s got his pick of any Defensive player starting around top5 overall draft area wouldn’t it?

 

[gopkrs]

It's not $11M. It's 6M.

Then it was not a good trade imo.

 

[gopkrs]

Gregg's team hovered around .500 while he was there. He was intent on building a run game in between the tackles. His tenure came during those great defensive Bear teams.

Gregg was an OK coach imho. I remember him as being the first coach to kick a game winning field goal on 1st or 2nd down to win a game in OT. When he was coach of the Bengals.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well it does go into their pockets…. the question is when. People seem to get confused when a player gets paid up front money and it is the prorated out over a few years to lessen the immediate cap impact.

Correct. The poster wanted to know if Douglas was getting paid $11M in 2024 by the Packers.

gopkrs said:
Well, were we going to owe Douglas $11M next year or not?

I like your answer better, but it still is a "No, we didn't owe Douglas $11M next year". He would have had a cap hit of $11.6M, if he was on the Packer roster in 2024.

The simplest way to look at this is this.

Douglas's contract was a 3 year deal for $21M or $7M per year. The Packers "savings" (money not paid out to Douglas) is thus $900K this season and $7M next season, for a total of $7.9M.

Again, CAP NUMBERS do not always = "Money due to Player". Often, they represent money already paid out to the player and some future money due that season. DEAD CAP is money that has already been paid to the player and the team MUST report in that year or split between current and next season, if it fits the rules.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

his 2024 sal the total paid including money moved, forward, and bonus, totals near $17 mill he'd be entitled to being paid. By him being gone, we have to pay him somewhat over $5 mill.ary would be $9 mill, and It comes out to roughly an $11 mill reduction cap hit.

We are done paying Douglas. No more actual money is being paid to Douglas by the Packers. What they will have to report on this years cap, is all the "money" already paid to him, that originally was planned to be "accounted for" in future seasons.

 

[gopkrs]

gopkrs said:
Well, were we going to owe Douglas $11M next year or not?

I like your answer better, but it still is a "No, we didn't owe Douglas $11M next year". He would have had a cap hit of $11.6M, if he was on the Packer roster in 2024.

I don't need to know all the nuances. But it kind of sucks when people who "kind of know" try and complicate things. What is important is the cap hit. I'm still unsure what it is for 2024 because nobody wants to answer such a direct question. Are we still stuck with the $6M from the bonus (or whatever)? If so; then we just let go of a good DB and we would only have been paying him $6M. mas o menos. (because either way we are on the hook for the bonus money) Which is probably the case because I don't think another team can take over the bonus money that has already been prorated. Again, I am really only interested in the actual amount saved against the cap by trading him. If we are still paying even though he has left; that money was not saved.

 

[Schultz]

capt., Capt. CAPT..................calling Captain, come in please..

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't need to know all the nuances. But it kind of sucks when people who "kind of know" try and complicate things. What is important is the cap hit. I'm still unsure what it is for 2024 because nobody wants to answer such a direct question. Are we still stuck with the $6M from the bonus (or whatever)? If so; then we just let go of a good DB and we would only have been paying him $6M. mas o menos. (because either way we are on the hook for the bonus money) Which is probably the case because I don't think another team can take over the bonus money that has already been prorated. Again, I am really only interested in the actual amount saved against the cap by trading him. If we are still paying even though he has left; that money was not saved.

I answered that in my first post.

The trade didn't "Free Up" or "Save" the Packers $11M (to spend on a CB). The Douglas trade saves the Packers about $900K this season on the salary cap and another $6.5M in savings on the 2024 cap, there is still a $5.1M dead cap hit for Douglas, which represented money that was pushed out into 2024. So if you want to view it as "money banked to put towards his replacement", it is more like $7.4M.