Prospects You Love

[OldSchool101]

As of now, Sutton’s biggest weakness is that he lacks the burst, quickness, and route savvy to separate against quality man coverage.

While most Wideouts need adequate time to transition from College, I’m pretty confident if you injected Courtland into this Offense he could hold his own within a year or two. Probably sooner if he lined up with Davante and Jordy and had #12 slinging the ball with a cohesive O line. If Courtland gets matched up with most NFL teams #2 or #3 Corner? It’s not gonna he long before he’s refined by a good coach and he has the tools to become a nightmare for opposing Defenses, particularly on a team with a pro bowl level QB. I really think you’re underestimating his potential. Btw 4.5 speed for a guy who’s 6’4 and 216lbs is plenty of speed to get the job done. You don’t need to run Randy Moss 40 times to be successful in this league

GB’s offense, more than most, puts a premium on that skill set.

We put a premium on raw speed and burst?? We should but we obviously don’t, I actually thought we were more lacking in that area more than most the last couple of years.

 

[OldSchool101]

Sutton and Devante outside would be sweet indeed. Sutton presents a huge mismatch for a lot of teams.

Exactly. Then throw Jordy in the slot and a guy like Jimmy Graham as a FA pickup opposite end and you’ve got a recipe for a Defensive disaster.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Exactly. Then throw Jordy in the slot and a guy like Jimmy Graham as a FA pickup opposite end and you’ve got a recipe for a Defensive disaster.

The Packers would have huge troubles throwing the ball against fast defenses with that lineup though.

 

[brandon2348]

The Packers would have huge troubles throwing the ball against fast defenses with that lineup though.

Not with AR12 slinging it. With that personnel someone is gonna be mismatched. Plus I can't wait until the combine when Sutton puts all this talk of him not being fast to bed. If people remember Jordy is a long strider and he was a viable deep threat weapon when he had wheels. I expect Sutton to run 4.50 or below and several scouts do as well.

If They want to get faster from the slot they could let Cobb go and go get John Brown.

 

[Dantés]

While most Wideouts need adequate time to transition from College, I’m pretty confident if you injected Courtland into this Offense he could hold his own within a year or two. Probably sooner if he lined up with Davante and Jordy and had #12 slinging the ball with a cohesive O line. If Courtland gets matched up with most NFL teams #2 or #3 Corner? It’s not gonna he long before he’s refined by a good coach and he has the tools to become a nightmare for opposing Defenses, particularly on a team with a pro bowl level QB. I really think you’re underestimating his potential. Btw 4.5 speed for a guy who’s 6’4 and 216lbs is plenty of speed to get the job done. You don’t need to run Randy Moss 40 times to be successful in this league

We put a premium on raw speed and burst?? We should but we obviously don’t, I actually thought we were more lacking in that area more than most the last couple of years.

I wasn't referencing his 40 time. I'm talking about his ability to separate. It's not really there.

I'm getting that you think he would work, but I'm not really hearing the reasons why.

 

[OldSchool101]

Speed is just one tangible of many (not including intangibles) for a NFL Receiver, but I’m beginning to think we overemphasize it way too much.
Now Noone, including myself, isn’t impressed to a degree with raw speed (I myself ran Track and CC in HS and my favorite Olympic event is Men’s and Women’s Track) Speed in and unto itself doesn’t get you anything but another Jeff Janis or Davis type player.
Give me a Davante Adams, Jerry Rice, James Jones, Chris Carter and Larry Fitzgerald and I’ll let you have all the John Ross types. For every blazing fast athlete that has success I’ll give you 2 more success stories that don’t have near the speed.

 

[OldSchool101]

I wasn't referencing his 40 time. I'm talking about his ability to separate. It's not really there.

I'm getting that you think he would work, but I'm not really hearing the reasons why.

Ability to separate is mostly subjective. Does ability to separate take into account Courtland winning the jump ball and then being strong enough to land on both feet and pick up another 5 yards?
I heard that same talk about Davante Adams a short couple of years ago and he proved to me that measurement is low on the totem pole of concerns IMO.
Even IF I conceded to your concern and agreed with you, Courtland didn’t put up 1,000+ and finish off double digit TDs recently unless he more than made up for his “separation” deficiencies with attacking the ball to the point of exhausting his opponent.
Furthermore if that’s our biggest concern and it’s significantly holding him back as you say? its also an area he could improve with expert level coaching and really be even more dynamic. Sign me up

 

[brandon2348]

Another great thing about Courtland Sutton is he is a great kid. He is a leader and a very hard worker and a finisher. If someone takes the time to actually research this guy and his upbringing they will find what a perfect fit this kid would be. His head is definitely in the right place and he is more then willing to put the work in to be great. I don't see how anyone could not like this propspect in Green and Gold.

If we somehow got both Landry and Sutton I would throw a party.

 

[Dantés]

Ability to separate is mostly subjective. Does ability to separate take into account Courtland winning the jump ball and then being strong enough to land on both feet and pick up another 5 yards?
I heard that same talk about Davante Adams a short couple of years ago and he proved to me that measurement is low on the totem pole of concerns IMO.
Even IF I conceded to your concern and agreed with you, Courtland didn’t put up 1,000+ and finish off double digit TDs recently unless he more than made up for his “separation” deficiencies with attacking the ball to the point of exhausting his opponent.
Furthermore if that’s our biggest concern and it’s significantly holding him back as you say? its also an area he could improve with expert level coaching and really be even more dynamic. Sign me up

Players without separation skills do succeed at times in the NFL, but it’s a high risk proposition. The list of success stories is short by comparison. He could, like you suggest, improve, however I would rather not invest a 2nd round pick in a player who would need to fundamentally change his game. This goes double considering that what the Packers need most in their pass catchers is a guy who can stretch the field and force safeties to play off, and Sutton is far from that.

By the way, Adams has always been a strong separator, though he has gotten better of course.

 

[OldSchool101]

I’ll bring the Confetti!

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[Dantés]

Another great thing about Courtland Sutton is he is a great kid. He is a leader and a very hard worker and a finisher. If someone takes the time to actually research this guy and his upbringing they will find what a perfect fit this kid would be. His head is definitely in the right place and he is more then willing to put the work in to be great. I don't see how anyone could not like this propspect in Green and Gold.

If we somehow got both Landry and Sutton I would throw a party.

Aren’t you also the one who told me that Arden Key loves football and that’s all we need to know?

 

[OldSchool101]

Players without separation skills do succeed at times in the NFL, but it’s a high risk proposition. The list of success stories is short by comparison. He could, like you suggest, improve, however I would rather not invest a 2nd round pick in a player who would need to fundamentally change his game. This goes double considering that what the Packers need most in their pass catchers is a guy who can stretch the field and force safeties to play off, and Sutton is far from that.

By the way, Adams has always been a strong separator, though he has gotten better of course.

You’re entitled to pass on him. I don’t think think you would have the choice because he’ll likely be gone before our pick in the second round and if he slips that far I hope he’s ours and proves you wrong.
Who is your pick for receiver and in what round? Or are you content with what we have? I’m not trying to set you up I’m genuinely curious no right or wrong answer here.

 

[Dantés]

You’re entitled to pass on him. I don’t think think you would have the choice because he’ll likely be gone before our pick in the second round and if he slips that far I hope he’s ours and proves you wrong.
Who is your pick for receiver and in what round? Or are you content with what we have? I’m not trying to set you up I’m genuinely curious no right or wrong answer here.

No, I know that. I'm happy to talk/disagree with you.

At #14, the only receiver in this class that I would be happy about drafting is Ridley.

At #45, there are several good options, it would seem. The combine will sort them out for me to a degree, but I like James Washington, D.J. Moore, Deon Cain, Dante Pettis, Christian Kirk, and yes, Courtland Sutton if he's there. However, I would prioritize a player who can stretch the field (e.g. Washington) over a possession target as that is what GB needs most.

So I'm not saying Sutton would be a bad 2nd round pick. He'd be fine. But he wouldn't be my first choice.

 

[brandon2348]

Aren’t you also the one who told me that Arden Key loves football and that’s all we need to know?

Arden Key is a different situation. I have read where scouts say "he loves football" but there is obviously still some risk as where there is smoke there is usually some fire. My take on Key is if the Packers "reach" at edge rusher at 14 I would rather have them do it with an elite talent like Key then some of these other guys people are posting about. Sutton is just a great pick all the way around and has been my main guy the whole time. You keep bringing up "seperation" but I have seen my fill of tape of him "separating" from db"s at the last second and making big time catches and plays. He had a QB with a noodle arm at SMU and once again I can only imagine what he would do with years of AR12. Sutton is a very fluid player which needs to be taken into consideration when evaluating speed.

I like Old Schools scenario where we trade back and get Sutton and Landry. Take it anyway you want.

 

[Dantés]

Arden Key is a different situation. I have read where scouts say "he loves football" but there is obviously still some risk as where there is smoke there is usually some fire. My take on Key is if the Packers "reach" at edge rusher at 14 I would rather have them do it with an elite talent like Key then some of these other guys people are posting about. Sutton is just a great pick all the way around and has been my main guy the whole time. You keep bringing up "seperation" but I have seen my fill of tape of him "separating" from db"s at the last second and making big time catches and plays. He had a QB with a noodle arm at SMU and once again I can only imagine what he would do with years of AR12. Sutton is a very fluid player which needs to be taken into consideration when evaluating speed.

I like Old Schools scenario where we trade back and get Sutton and Landry. Take it anyway you want.

Why did you put *separation in quotes?

 

[brandon2348]

Why did you put *separation in quotes?

Because you keep posting he lacks "seperation". Some scouts say he does. Others say he doesn't.

 

[Dantés]

Because you keep posting he lacks "seperation". Some scouts say he does. Others say he doesn't.

Ok, but we are talking about it literally, not figuratively. But nevermind. Who is saying that he separates well?

 

[brandon2348]

Ok, but we are talking about it literally, not figuratively. But nevermind. Who is saying that he separates well?

Well Charlie Campbell for one has talked to scouts who compare Suttons speed to Josh Doctson and Doctson isn't slow by any means. Your boy Daniel Jeremiah compares him to Mike Evans who has shown the ability to "separate" in the NFL. After the combine I'm sure you will be goo goo gah gah over Sutton.

Sutton is a long strider no doubt and maybe he isn't the best prospect as far as short area quickness but that doesn't mean he can't be a valuable outside deep threat at the next level. Go see Jordy Nelson. People are getting way to caught up on this "separation" thing. The guy has all the tools to be great and he has great production as well and he is a winner. Not sure what more you want.

 

[Dantés]

Well Charlie Campbell for one has talked to scouts who compare Suttons speed to Josh Doctson and Doctson isn't slow by any means. Your boy Daniel Jeremiah compares him to Mike Evans who has shown the ability to "separate" in the NFL. After the combine I'm sure you will be goo goo gah gah over Sutton.

Sutton is a long strider no doubt and maybe he isn't the best prospect as far as short area quickness but that doesn't mean he can't be a valuable outside deep threat at the next level. Go see Jordy Nelson. People are getting way to caught up on this "separation" thing. The guy has all the tools to be great and he has great production as well and he is a winner. Not sure what more you want.

So in other words, you can’t name one.

Hey, when in doubt make a joke about how I value combine numbers right? It’s way easier than actually responding.

I understand that Sutton has strengths in addition to his weaknesses. But the combination of those strengths and weaknesses is not, in my opinion, what would suit the Packers best. As usual, you have no capacity for handling that. It’s Charles Harris all over again.

 

[OldSchool101]

I’m sure this has been mentioned but every receiver has weeknesses. Ridley is probably the most universally good in each category that’s true. Sutton has a great size advantage at 6’4”/216lbs and moves effortlessly more like he’s 6’1”/200lbs.​

His strength contesting catches makes him look more like a smaller TE and possesses enough speed that he can break away from a Corner or Safety that’s off balance contesting. Catch. He’s almost identical to Jordys rookie speed but a smidgen taller. While agreeably Ridley would be a better and more polished immediate fit. Sutton is good enough to start Year 1 as a third receiver and take focus off Jordy, Cobb, Davante etc.. . He’s easily an upgrade over Geronimo and his upside (improvement level) is strong. I see him as a valid #2 behind Davante in a year or two.
All that being said I’m concermed that unless we trade back He really fits smack dab between our pick at #14 and our pick at #45 (he’ll probably not make round 2) so we’re in a tight spot because he’s probably valued around top 35 overall.
I Do think we need to be thinking receiver before day 2 comes to close and will likely get EQ etc.. instead.

 

[brandon2348]

So in other words, you can’t name one.

Hey, when in doubt make a joke about how I value combine numbers right? It’s way easier than actually responding.

I understand that Sutton has strengths in addition to his weaknesses. But the combination of those strengths and weaknesses is not, in my opinion, what would suit the Packers best. As usual, you have no capacity for handling that. It’s Charles Harris all over again.

And once again if we had gotten Harris we wouldn't have the issue at edge we have now would We?

 

[Dantés]

I don’t believe Sutton will ever threaten defenses vertically the way that young Jordy did.

 

[Dantés]

And once again if we had gotten Harris we wouldn't have the issue at edge we have now would We?

Oh, yeah totally. His 2 sacks on 500 snaps has completely vindicated you. I repent of preferring Watt and others to him. Lol.

 

[brandon2348]

Oh, yeah totally. His 2 sacks on 500 snaps has completely vindicated you. I repent of preferring Watt and others to him. Lol.

Or Tyus Bowser.

Repent on. You obviously didn't do your homework.

https://www.lockedondolphins.com/dolphins/harrisrookie/

 

[OldSchool101]

I don’t believe Sutton will ever threaten defenses vertically the way that young Jordy did.

Maybe. But even Jordy only scored 6 TDs total in his first 3 formative years. It wasn’t until his 4th campaign when he had the likes of
Donald Driver
Randall Cobb
James Jones
Greg Jennings
Jermichael Finley (portion of season)

That’s a load to handle for any Defense and nobody even knew who he was so capitalized on it.