Post Draft/UDFA/Off-Season Signings - Each Position Trade Block

mradtke66

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Teams should band together and make a statement that any true Rookie past #34 overall gets a last offer open for 1 week expiration from the 1st day of Camp.

And then the NFL will get taken to court and likely lose due an obvious case of collusion.

They get the higher of their 2023/2024 average contract guaranteed slated at their draft order + up to a 10% increase off that guaranteed if signed before training camp.

Not sure if I follow your proposed structure...

If they refuse expect not to play in 2025 and reapply in 2026 or later.
That's not a threat to the players. The loss of those second round players for 28 (? Steelers don't have a 2nd and two teams already signed their guy) is a fairly large blow.
 

Pkrjones

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That's not a threat to the players. The loss of those second round players for 28 (? Steelers don't have a 2nd and two teams already signed their guy) is a fairly large blow.
I don't want to lose Belton's services over $7mil guaranteed!!! That, to me, is a VERY foolish stance to take. Offer him his slotted 4yr/$8.010512 deal, guarantee $7.2mil (everything except his year 4 base salary) and get him into camp.

The NFL prints money, and to take a short-sighted stance like this (when next year they'll cave to it, anyway!) is silly. Make it a negotiation point in the NEXT CBA, that round 3 players get 80% guaranteed, 4th's get 65%, 5th's get 50%, 6th's get 35%, and 7th's get 15%... or something similar.
 
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Easily argued against the second teams beyond the first round started offering higher guarantees. This likely should just be in the next CBA placing a cap of guarantee possibly per round.

One issue is this only impacts drafted players BUT UDFA can get however much guaranteed the team desires to pay them if I understand it all correctly. Very easy to argue just because a guy gets drafted he should get to argue less in his contract discussions is "wrong"
He can argue all he wants but it’s sets precedent. Once you start giving 2nd rounders fully guaranteed you’ve not only just shafted the players who did t get that last year and set precedent for every other round to start this trend. They need to Cap these Contracts and put this stuff to bed. These players and their Agents are getting way too spoiled.
 

mradtke66

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He can argue all he wants but it’s sets precedent. Once you start giving 2nd rounders fully guaranteed you’ve not only just shafted the players who did t get that last year

That's time moving on. The deals are always going to change over time. This point feels like being contrary for the point of being contrary.

and set precedent for every other round to start this trend.

Oh, certainly. The players would love that.

They need to Cap these Contracts and put this stuff to bed.

The contracts are already capped.

These players and their Agents are getting way too spoiled.

Maybe, but who started the trend? The Texans agreed to this with their contract offer. The die is cast and now every player's agent would not be doing their job if they don't also try to extra guarantees for other second round picks.
 
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tynimiller

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He can argue all he wants but it’s sets precedent. Once you start giving 2nd rounders fully guaranteed you’ve not only just shafted the players who did t get that last year and set precedent for every other round to start this trend. They need to Cap these Contracts and put this stuff to bed. These players and their Agents are getting way too spoiled.

Everything evolves, nothing contract wise across any industry doesn’t change. I understand folks feel they’re spoiled or overpaid and should shut up and just accept the same contracts from ten years ago - but just not reality to how contract negotiations work.
 

Thirteen Below

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I don't want to lose Belton's services over $7mil guaranteed!!! That, to me, is a VERY foolish stance to take. Offer him his slotted 4yr/$8.010512 deal, guarantee $7.2mil (everything except his year 4 base salary) and get him into camp.
I tend to agree. This is a very big year for Green Bay; that 2nd rounder is an important player, and we can't afford the distraction. There are a number of questions that we need to have answered about the offensive line, but we need Belton in camp before we can accurately evaluate what we're looking at.

One option would be to work out a Player Participation Agreement (PPA) that would get him into camp, and allow him to fully participate in all activities even without a contract while guaranteeing financial protections in case he's injured. I think a number of these ~30 teams may go that route as we get close to the report dates.


Once you start giving 2nd rounders fully guaranteed you’ve not only just shafted the players who did t get that last year and set precedent for every other round to start this trend.

If this mischief goes viral and spreads to 3rd, 4th, and even 5th rounders, they're going to have to hold the draft the day after the Super Bowl, and Thanksgiving Day games will be the season openers.

The current CBA runs until 2031, and that's an awfully long time to have this hanging over our heads. I wonder if this is the sort of issue that the player's union would be agreeable to renegotiating in mid-term.
 

Sunshinepacker

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The Houston Texans made life much more difficult for every other team with their decision to guarantee Higgins' contract. Still, I'll never side with teams worth billions over 22-year-old kids who only have one chance to lock in generational money. If teams want to get these players into training camp on time, there's a very simple solution: guarantee their contracts.
 
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The Houston Texans made life much more difficult for every other team with their decision to guarantee Higgins' contract. Still, I'll never side with teams worth billions over 22-year-old kids who only have one chance to lock in generational money. If teams want to get these players into training camp on time, there's a very simple solution: guarantee their contracts.
Problem is these aren’t Kids, these are grown men and have representation that are older than you or I so sorry if I don’t buy the compassion. You want Football which I do also. Yet to blanket every complaint with more $$ only feeds the same monster you already speak of. I personally don’t feel sorry for them one bit, they should feel sorry for us! See I love football but not to the point I feel the need to bend like a Reed in the Wind at every breeze of discontent and keep pumping everyone’s $$. This won’t stop at players and you are seeing today what the precedent of past decisions and how they’ve made it difficult just to tune into a game. It’s getting to be unwatchable. We now can’t do anything without a subscription and this giving into demands is not making it any better imo.

I say let’s play without them and force them to quit the exploitation of the game
 
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Voyageur

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Kind of winging it here. I haven't done a lot of digging but these are glaring issues going into the season if certain things happen, or don't happen.

For openers, I don't think we have a solid crew at CB. I think we're going to get hurt by it if that doesn't change. I understand Alexander being gone but they need to find someone out there in free agency who can step up and be a solid contributor. It's probably our most glaring weakness on the team. My second concern is the defensive line. I just don't think we have the horses to play inside and be difference makers. If it was going to be there with the players we have now, we have it would have seen it last year. What we have is another year of relying on is Kenny Clark who turns 30 in I believe October. If he suffers any kind of an injury I don't count on Wyatt or any of the rest of that batch to push the center of the line back, and you can count on having to keep an inside linebacker right behind the tackle box to insure they can make run stops instead of letting them go for 10+ yards. Couple that with weak CBs and we're going to look at people blaming Hafely for poor decision making and the blame should really fall on those who failed to address these two needs as primary in the draft instead of adding two WRs so early in the draft.

On offense, if the Packers traded away any of the existing linemen presently on the roster and slated in the 2/3 deep in some spots, they're playing with fire. You need to maintain a quality line to keep Love from being injured again. Two injuries in the front line of this group could throw it all into chaos and that must be avoided. Love is not going to move forward without solid protection. As for trading Willis, I wouldn't do it unless the Packers got a draft pick at least in the 3rd round and we all know that's more than likely not likely to happen. You don't weaken a position without being able to see considerable gains from it. At this point, they've backed themselves in a corner where they might expect a fairly sold CB in trade for him because of the weakened CB corps. That's not good, because one of those WR picks could have brought us a top CB candidate out of college.

I keep hearing from so called "writers" how the Packers will probably trade Watson or Doubs because of the salary issue next year. Why? You're not going to get squat for Watson because nobody knows if he's even going to get back on the field and be productive, and potentially not play a down all of next year. Tell me what GMs in this league would give the Packers anything of value at this point? In fact, I think it's possible the Packers waive Watson off IR although highly unlikely. As for Doubs, they're going to see how it's going over the first handful of games and if they see what they want and need, they're going to negotiate a new deal with him for probably 3 years. At the bottom of that list, Heath is more than likely odd man out. Possibly even Hardman who would only be owed $150k. A $1 mill cut in cap space.

Our problem at depth is going to be the cap. If a guy who's scheduled to make (estimates here) $2.5 mill is only a little bit better than another who is scheduled to make $1.5 mill, expect the guy with the lower cap hit to stay. This is the problem with so many teams. Too much pay going to the front-line personnel and not enough to cover quality subs.

Anyhow, the biggest problem the Packers face this year in having a fairly decent year is the injury bug because they lack depth in key positions.
 
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Anyhow, the biggest problem the Packers face this year in having a fairly decent year is the injury bug because they lack depth in key positions.
See I think our depth at all but 2 positions is good. CB, IDL is shaky. If I had a biggest concern it’s CB past our 3 Nixon, Hobbs, Valentine.

As far as the other, the more I looked at TJ? He did not grade out very good in 2024. His overall grade and run stop grades were in the 40’s% which is actually quite poor.

Now Eric Wilson at LB was probably our biggest impact loss imo, at least outside of JA as Wilson graded out slightly above average in many categories, but was impactful at around a substantial 50% snap count. Although Wilson gave up 11 missed tackles also, which hurt him or he would’ve been more in that 70%+ graded area against other LB’s.
For openers, I don't think we have a solid crew at CB. I think we're going to get hurt by it if that doesn't change.
I agree. Although my gut tells me we’ve got better depth than we realize though, part of that is supported by Gute not going out and making a direct replacement type signing. My concern stems from the fact I just don’t like it’s mostly unproven depth and it’s not the best year to be letting guys cut their teeth at CB. I’m not suggesting it has to be Rasul, but someone with that type experience would be my suggestion.
 
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tynimiller

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I have a very strong feeling Gute is likely to prefer see what we have in TC and PS before adding someone. BUT I strongly suspect even if it is a rookie cut or guy from last year draft cut that Gute and company really liked…we will add someone at CB. It just makes too much sense not to.
 
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The Silver lining is the Packers opened up some financial flexibility when they let JA go. It’s a real possibility we are just biding our time and surveying the field for a Veteran Corner. For FA, the cost tends to diminish as players get uneasy about not having a deal in place. I really believe we only need a good rotational veteran piece at CB and we’re fine. There’s a significant opportunity of finding 1 CB in the pool at Cutdowns.
 

Sunshinepacker

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Problem is these aren’t Kids, these are grown men and have representation that are older than you or I so sorry if I don’t buy the compassion. You want Football which I do also. Yet to blanket every complaint with more $$ only feeds the same monster you already speak of. I personally don’t feel sorry for them one bit, they should feel sorry for us! See I love football but not to the point I feel the need to bend like a Reed in the Wind at every breeze of discontent and keep pumping everyone’s $$. This won’t stop at players and you are seeing today what the precedent of past decisions and how they’ve made it difficult just to tune into a game. It’s getting to be unwatchable. We now can’t do anything without a subscription and this giving into demands is not making it any better imo.

I say let’s play without them and force them to quit the exploitation of the game

22 year old men who have only ever played football their entire lives are children when it comes to financial choices and decisions that will impact the rest of their lives. I get it, you support the billionaires over the rookies. We just differ on supporting David or Goliath on this one.
 
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22 year old men who have only ever played football their entire lives are children when it comes to financial choices and decisions that will impact the rest of their lives. I get it, you support the billionaires over the rookies. We just differ on supporting David or Goliath on this one.
I absolute 100% support billionaires or Millionaires (give to Cesar what is Cesar’s) I also support those with zero money. I just don’t judge people I’ve never even met by their possessions like you just did. If it wasn’t for people who are very smart and risked their wealth dollars to achieve goals? we’d have no NFL and that’s factual it’s not ideological like casting dispersions across broad spectrums that eerily aligns with anti democratic propaganda. I don’t buy that you are supporting an effort to help the poor, that’s almost ridiculous to use that in this scenario imo.

These 2nd Round NFL MEN are not some poor little children helpless in contract negotiations, they can actually afford to fund their own legal representation and willfully do so. The amount of money they make over a career on average is massive, not to mention other derivative benefits they receive that ordinary people don’t.

PS. David was a poor shepherd boy who relied on his provision from God. His Faith in the unseen is what made him Rich. His empire eventually extended to his Son Solomon and in and on to Josiah. Poor Little David became the wealthiest family on Earth and he never took so much as a mite (penny) from Goliath, nor was he judged on the actions of the Philistine Giant. He was judged and monetarily awarded according to his own faith and his own righteousness. Quite the opposite of what you are advising here.. David was repeatedly instructed by God to leave the spoil of his Victory alone (be patient and obedient) and he wisely complied and was thus rewarded. You Might want to reread that historical event again to understand its lesson and significance before using it as a basis for debate.
 
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tynimiller

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The Houston Texans made life much more difficult for every other team with their decision to guarantee Higgins' contract. Still, I'll never side with teams worth billions over 22-year-old kids who only have one chance to lock in generational money. If teams want to get these players into training camp on time, there's a very simple solution: guarantee their contracts.

LOL many of these "kids" nowadays that are drafted in the top 100 have already gotten more money just in NIL than most of us make in multiple years over....I think you have a gross misconception of the current structure of contracts and money. Yes, back in the 80s and older football players truly made more similar to just really nice paying upper class salaries (excluding the stars of course)....that isn't the case anymore.
 

Voyageur

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LOL many of these "kids" nowadays that are drafted in the top 100 have already gotten more money just in NIL than most of us make in multiple years over....I think you have a gross misconception of the current structure of contracts and money. Yes, back in the 80s and older football players truly made more similar to just really nice paying upper class salaries (excluding the stars of course)....that isn't the case anymore.
No doubt about it, a lot of today's players just entering the NFL made more in college already than a lot of players from before the 90s made in their entire careers over ten years. In today's society, money just seems to be an endless resource for some people. That is, until those large checks stop coming in. That's when reality hits.

I believe the NFL has a seminar program directed at new players coming into the league that helps them to determine their financial futures. Those that attend them have a better chance of being able to hang on to enough money that when the career is over, there's plenty of money left to support them quite comfortably the rest of their lives.
 

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Hopefully Belton will get signed, soon. #43 and #62 have already signed, today, and Belton (#54) falls almost exactly between the 2. Should be easy math to find his guaranteed percentage as his overall deal amount is already set at 4yr/$8.010512.
 

AmishMafia

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The Houston Texans made life much more difficult for every other team with their decision to guarantee Higgins' contract. Still, I'll never side with teams worth billions over 22-year-old kids who only have one chance to lock in generational money. If teams want to get these players into training camp on time, there's a very simple solution: guarantee their contracts.
The other side of the coin: the 22 year old kid decides he has what he wanted all along (wealth) and starts enjoying the fruits of his abilities (women). Decreases his gym time, doesn't study the playbook etc and instead parties. He signed a guaranteed $32M for 4 years but he plays so poorly he gets cut 8 games into his 2nd year. Now that is $20M left on the contract that is subtracted from the salary cap. Money that some other young man who will work much harder for.

The billionaires are paying out the same money every season, or if they carryover the next season. It's just that with less guarantees, the guys who deserve it, are more likely to get more.
 
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Hopefully Belton will get signed, soon. #43 and #62 have already signed, today, and Belton (#54) falls almost exactly between the 2. Should be easy math to find his guaranteed percentage as his overall deal amount is already set at 4yr/$8.010512.
Hopefully we get Belton’s deal behind us. As much as I like Elgton, the recent Guard high $$ signings are only going to complicate us retaining him. I don’t want to lose Elgton, but I think it would be unwise to extend him anywhere near the $20Mil+ annual numbers we’re seeing. I’d prefer we work out a trade and scrape his $13 or $15mil cap savings (reports vary some). Then use some of that savings $ to shore up other areas or a player for player trade for another area of perceived weakness.
 

Sunshinepacker

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The other side of the coin: the 22 year old kid decides he has what he wanted all along (wealth) and starts enjoying the fruits of his abilities (women). Decreases his gym time, doesn't study the playbook etc and instead parties. He signed a guaranteed $32M for 4 years but he plays so poorly he gets cut 8 games into his 2nd year. Now that is $20M left on the contract that is subtracted from the salary cap. Money that some other young man who will work much harder for.

The billionaires are paying out the same money every season, or if they carryover the next season. It's just that with less guarantees, the guys who deserve it, are more likely to get more.

Or the guys who get injured or have crappy coaches that make them look terrible (e.g.,Malik Willis is not an elite QB but I guarantee the league would think much more highly of him if MLF had been his coach his entire career) get waived after two seasons and the team doesn't have to pay them anything else and the young man is now faced with the prospect of spending the next 40+ years of his life without much of the money he could have had if the team owners were willing to spend a few percentage points of their revenue share on guaranteed contracts. Just a difference of how I look at things. I love the Packers but I also tend to root for the employees in money matters over the billion dollar business, especially since those employees ARE the business; not sure I can think of what exactly the NFL owners actually DO to deserve all the money so many fans are always trying to save them.
 

gopkrs

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Hopefully we get Belton’s deal behind us. As much as I like Elgton, the recent Guard high $$ signings are only going to complicate us retaining him. I don’t want to lose Elgton, but I think it would be unwise to extend him anywhere near the $20Mil+ annual numbers we’re seeing. I’d prefer we work out a trade and scrape his $13 or $15mil cap savings (reports vary some). Then use some of that savings $ to shore up other areas or a player for player trade for another area of perceived weakness.
I thought the idea was tie up a better player at L guard, get some really good younger players, switch Eldgin to center for a year and let him try free agency the next. I still don't see anything wrong with that. He'll have to come back after what, 6 weeks? I guess I don't see much of a reason to deal with him now. Unless you think we're going to get hammered at center. But I don't think so.
 

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The guarantee question turned out to be pretty interesting. For one thing, in preparing to reply, I see that Thirteen agreed with Amish that guarantees are not good and then loved Sunshine's contention that they are good. Could use some clarification on that.

If there wasn't a cap, I'd be fine with throwing as much money at players as they want, with the multi-billionaires not missing it, even though many players don't deserve what they're not good enough to earn. Of course, the one 'owner' that would get crushed under that circumstance is the Packers. And, with the cap, I'm against guarantees because paying for players who don't measure up prevent the team from paying those others that do.
 

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