Pick #30, Who are your favorite prospects?

[Pokerbrat2000]

You keep spending (or drafting) on corner until you have a least two, preferably three, good ones on contract for the next 2-3 years. Right now the Packers have one corner that looks reliably good.

Its right up there with position importance.

1. QB
2. OLB
3. CB and OT (tie)

Again, I agree with both of you as to the importance of the CB position, but where TT and now Gute (to some extent) have failed in recent history is actually consistently hitting on CB's in the draft with high picks. Alexander and to some extent King are their 2 combined successes. I really don't think you can afford to chase your tail by continuing to use 1st and 2nd round pics and/or big FA $$ to attempt to have "two, preferably three, good ones on contract for the next 2-3 years". If you do use that strategy, what ends up happening is exactly what we have witnessed with the Packers, your other positions suffer.

So yes, ideally you always have 2-3 solid CB's, but getting there is a Catch-22. If you don't put a lot of resources into the CB position, you are hoping to develop guys that may never develop because they came into the NFL as long shots. Or you can keep using high pics and sign a top FA CB on occasion, but there is not guarantee of that working either. The pitfall of strictly using that second approach, if it fails, you have just wasted a lot of resources that could have been used to better the team elsewhere.

So IMO, you use a combination of the two approaches. I also think it all starts with solid scouting and coaching. I know some disagree with me, but I think the Packers have lacked in both of those categories over the last several years in regards to the CB position and because of it, have needlessly squandered some valuable draft resources.

I also think that we see better CB play with a better front 7. We saw some indications of that with having the Smith Brothers last season. Improve the DL some more, as well as ILB and I bet your CB's look better.

 

[Mondio]

if you don't have corner backs, you don't have a defense. Because 2 top ones from a few years ago were injured and out and traded because his attitude sucked doesn't mean you stop finding some. King was injured. it happens and now he seems to be coming on and could leave. Regardless of what he does, we still NEED 1 or 2 more.

What you can't do is pick a DB because you need one and pass up someone you think is good at OT or ILB or WR. That will get you in trouble. But if you're faced with a DB that rates very highly and at least as high or higher than another position of need and you do need DB's, well you're not wrong in picking one.

Other positions might suffer if you miss on a DB. But that's the same as anything. Pass up a good DB because you need an OT more and he turns out to be Spriggs. What good did it do? now you suck at OT and DB and less 2 more swings at the plate to boot.

 

[Dantés]

Its right up there with position importance.

1. QB
2. OLB
3. CB and OT (tie)

And depending on the defensive philosophy, one could argue that CB and pass rusher are on equal terms.

 

[Dantés]

Re: the poll.

I am floored that with choices of a safety with tackling problems, a solid center prospect, a fumble-prone running back, and a legit franchise QB prospect, I'm the only one who said he's take the QB.

That is astounding.

 

[Mondio]

The only one I know is the RB with a fumbling problem LOL. Though I will say he does remind me of Ahman Green in almost every way. Patient cut and run runner. Has tremendous strength in his entire body and has true breakaway speed. he also has ball security issues that Green battled at different times.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

if you don't have corner backs, you don't have a defense.

I don't think anyone is debating that, it is how you get there that is in question in my mind. This notion of "two CB's, preferably three, good ones on contract for the next 2-3 years" that someone posted, is more of what I was commenting on. While that is an awesome philosophy and easy to put into words, its pretty much the same philosophy at several positions (OLB, OT, WR, DL). Now how do you actually achieve that goal at CB and still meet your needs at other positions? In the last 6 drafts, the Packers have had 13 1st and 2nd round picks, I call these your money picks, you need to hit on most of them. The Packers have used 8 of those on DB's. We have Alexander, King and Savage coming out of that group as what I would deem successful picks (37.5% success rate). Meanwhile the other 5 picks were scattered around on other positions, WR (Adams), DT (Clark), OT (Spriggs), G (Jenkins) OLB (Gary). Spriggs I would say at this point is the only bust of those 5.

Yet, here we are once again talking about "should we draft another CB with a high pick?"

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

The biggest thing I want to point out on the now turned CB discussion is that in my opinion a GOOD GM needs to hit on at least 40% of his picks....rounded up that's 3 guys. A GREAT GM needs to hit on 50% of his picks....rounded up that's 4 guys.

Without going deep into the Packers' draft history, we don't come away from draft classes with typically more than 2 solid guys a year. Just going back to our most recent class I'd say we have 2.5(Savage, Jenkins, Sternberger if he plays out....)

Great CBs can be had outside of the 1st 2 Rounds, for some reason the Packers just can't sniff them out. Or when we do find them, we let them walk(Tramon Williams)

Yes, I understand that the lower the round, the less likely a chance of a successful NFL career, but Gute has got to change our luck down there.

Last year's top 25 ranked CBs through Week 17 according to PFF drafted after 64th Overall:

1. Richard Sherman-154th/2011
2. Quinton Dunbar-UDFA/2015
6. Tramon Williams-UDFA/2006
7. Stephen Nelson-98th/2015
8. Brian Poole-UDFA/2016
9. Jason McCourty-203rd/2009
13. Shaquill Griffin-90th/2017
14. K'Waun Williams-UDFA/2014
18. Mike Hilton-UDFA/2016
19. Nickell Robey-Coleman-UDFA/2013
20. Troy Hill-UDFA/2015
22. Tramaine Brock Sr-UDFA/2010
24. Johnathan Jones-UDFA/2018
25. Kenny Moore II-UDFA/2018

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Again, I agree with both of you as to the importance of the CB position, but where TT and now Gute (to some extent) have failed in recent history is actually consistently hitting on CB's in the draft with high picks. Alexander and to some extent King are their 2 combined successes. I really don't think you can afford to chase your tail by continuing to use 1st and 2nd round pics and/or big FA $$ to attempt to have "two, preferably three, good ones on contract for the next 2-3 years". If you do use that strategy, what ends up happening is exactly what we have witnessed with the Packers, your other positions suffer.

So yes, ideally you always have 2-3 solid CB's, but getting there is a Catch-22. If you don't put a lot of resources into the CB position, you are hoping to develop guys that may never develop because they came into the NFL as long shots. Or you can keep using high pics and sign a top FA CB on occasion, but there is not guarantee of that working either. The pitfall of strictly using that second approach, if it fails, you have just wasted a lot of resources that could have been used to better the team elsewhere.

So IMO, you use a combination of the two approaches. I also think it all starts with solid scouting and coaching. I know some disagree with me, but I think the Packers have lacked in both of those categories over the last several years in regards to the CB position and because of it, have needlessly squandered some valuable draft resources.

I also think that we see better CB play with a better front 7. We saw some indications of that with having the Smith Brothers last season. Improve the DL some more, as well as ILB and I bet your CB's look better.

First, I think the NFL overall isn't paying slot corners what they're worth, so free agency seems like the best way to go get a slot corner. And yes, other positions suffer. However, corner is either the most important or second most important defensive position in the NFL, so if inside linebackers suffers, oh well. The Packers currently have exactly ONE good, reliable corner, that's just not good enough in today's NFL. The issue the Packers have had is that TT's last few drafts were just awful and left the cupboard bare at too many positions. It takes time, and luck, to recover quickly from that.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Great CBs can be had outside of the 1st 2 Rounds, for some reason the Packers just can't sniff them out. Or when we do find them, we let them walk(Tramon Williams)

Good post and for me it all comes back to scouts, the GM, DC and the DB/CB coach(s). I really think there has been some dysfunction at some level with all 4/5 of those areas when it comes to DB's. I don't have the time nor the desire to look at the other 31 teams past 6 years of drafts, but I would wager a lot of money, that the Packers are in the top 5 teams for draft resources used on DB's, if not the #1 team. The payback from those investments should have been much better, at least for me to get too excited about rinsing and repeating the same strategy.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

First, I think the NFL overall isn't paying slot corners what they're worth, so free agency seems like the best way to go get a slot corner. And yes, other positions suffer. However, corner is either the most important or second most important defensive position in the NFL, so if inside linebackers suffers, oh well. The Packers currently have exactly ONE good, reliable corner, that's just not good enough in today's NFL. The issue the Packers have had is that TT's last few drafts were just awful and left the cupboard bare at too many positions. It takes time, and luck, to recover quickly from that.

See I disagree a bit on this. How do you rate the job that last years secondary did? Short of Tramon Williams, right now it is the same group that you seem to be implying needs 1-2 more good CB's. How do you think that 2019 group would have performed playing behind a better DL and ILB? I think they would have been even better. Shore up your ILB and DL positions, which statistically and visually were the issue with the defense last year and I bet in the process you see improvement from your secondary.

Why do you think some of these high priced FA CB's haven't lived up to their contracts lately? Maybe their level of play has slipped a bit, but I would also guess some of it has to do with the new coaches and players around them.

 

[Dantés]

See I disagree a bit on this. How do you rate the job that last years secondary did? Short of Tramon Williams, right now it is the same group that you seem to be implying needs 1-2 more good CB's. How do you think that 2019 group would have performed playing behind a better DL and ILB? I think they would have been even better. Shore up your ILB and DL positions, which statistically and visually were the issue with the defense last year and I bet in the process you see improvement from your secondary.

Why do you think some of these high priced FA CB's haven't lived up to their contracts lately? Maybe their level of play has slipped a bit, but I would also guess some of it has to do with the new coaches and players around them.

I think the cornerbacks (because that's what we're talking about, really) did well overall. But that is not remotely reliable moving from one season to another.

King, one major piece of the puzzle, is inconsistent both in terms of performance and durability. He's also in a contract year.

Williams, another major piece of the puzzle, is not currently on the roster. If he is on the roster, he's 37.

There is literally nothing behind them in terms of proven contributions. The closest you come is Chandon Sullivan playing some zone in quarters.

So I disagree with the idea that you can say it's more or less the same product.

And while pass rush definitely helps corners, pass rush is not what the Packers would be addressing by adding a linebacker or a run defender on the interior of the line. So I don't think those things would have much to do with how the cornerback position performs.

 

[GleefulGary]

The biggest thing I want to point out on the now turned CB discussion is that in my opinion a GOOD GM needs to hit on at least 40% of his picks....rounded up that's 3 guys. A GREAT GM needs to hit on 50% of his picks....rounded up that's 4 guys.

Without going deep into the Packers' draft history, we don't come away from draft classes with typically more than 2 solid guys a year. Just going back to our most recent class I'd say we have 2.5(Savage, Jenkins, Sternberger if he plays out....)

Great CBs can be had outside of the 1st 2 Rounds, for some reason the Packers just can't sniff them out. Or when we do find them, we let them walk(Tramon Williams)

Yes, I understand that the lower the round, the less likely a chance of a successful NFL career, but Gute has got to change our luck down there.

Last year's top 25 ranked CBs through Week 17 according to PFF drafted after 64th Overall:

1. Richard Sherman-154th/2011
2. Quinton Dunbar-UDFA/2015
6. Tramon Williams-UDFA/2006
7. Stephen Nelson-98th/2015
8. Brian Poole-UDFA/2016
9. Jason McCourty-203rd/2009
13. Shaquill Griffin-90th/2017
14. K'Waun Williams-UDFA/2014
18. Mike Hilton-UDFA/2016
19. Nickell Robey-Coleman-UDFA/2013
20. Troy Hill-UDFA/2015
22. Tramaine Brock Sr-UDFA/2010
24. Johnathan Jones-UDFA/2018
25. Kenny Moore II-UDFA/2018

Great CB's can be found in any round, just like great players can be found in any round.

Tom Brady went 6th round. Donald Driver went undrafted. Antonio Brown went 5th round, I think.

Your chances of finding a great player are exponentially higher in the early rounds. So yes, great players can be found in any round, but statistically more common in early rounds.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

See I disagree a bit on this. How do you rate the job that last years secondary did? Short of Tramon Williams, right now it is the same group that you seem to be implying needs 1-2 more good CB's. How do you think that 2019 group would have performed playing behind a better DL and ILB? I think they would have been even better. Shore up your ILB and DL positions, which statistically and visually were the issue with the defense last year and I bet in the process you see improvement from your secondary.

Why do you think some of these high priced FA CB's haven't lived up to their contracts lately? Maybe their level of play has slipped a bit, but I would also guess some of it has to do with the new coaches and players around them.

Tramon was a very good slot corner last year but you can't rely on him at his age for 2-3 years. I think he'll be very good next year, and inexpensive, but the team needs to fill that spot with a younger player on a longer contract.

The best slot corners in the NFL get paid about half what the best outside corners get paid, even though in today's game they are just about as valuable to the defense; just look at the number of great WRs that play in the slot, either occasionally or full time. Since 2016, about 2/3 of NFL offensive plays happened with 3+ WRs on the field. Additionaly, when I'm discussing signing a good slot corner, those guys got about $8-9 million a year this offseason: Chris Harris Jr. got $8.5m and now the highest paid slot corner in the NFL at $8.5m per year. A good free agent slot corner just isn't that expensive.

The issue with the defense last year was run defense, yes, but that's because the team had 1 very good CB in Williams and two good corners on the team so teams that could run just preferred that. Right now the team has two good corners, one of whom is inconsistent and not always healthy, and after next year the team will have ONE good corner on the roster. That's a problem. An ILB isn't going to help that. The Packers defense was about average last year according to Football Outsiders (weighted defensive DVOA was 16th in the NFL). They were 9th against the pass and 23rd against the run. The run defense needs to improve next year but I really think the pass defense needs some longer-term players in the secondary if it doesn't want to fall off a cliff next year or the year after.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I really think the pass defense needs some longer-term players in the secondary if it doesn't want to fall off a cliff next year or the year after.

Much like what happened at WR?

Again, I think some of you are thinking I disagree with the importance of the position, I do not, I repeat.....I DO NOT!

I am questioning your stated expectation of what the Packers should always have: "two, preferably three, good ones on contract for the next 2-3 years". How do you expect to do that? Give me your plan and tell me how that plan differs from the approach that the Packers have taken over the last 6 or so years.

I am questioning the methods used to not just obtain CB's but to evaluate them. I happen to disagree with the idea that the overall DL and ILB play doesn't influence the CB play. When your secondary can concentrate on defending the pass and not forever (no pressure), it is going to make those players look at lot better. When your front 7 can't hold or penetrate the LOS, whether its against the run or the pass, that puts a lot more pressure on your entire secondary to cover more field and for a longer period of time.

 

[Dantés]

Much like what happened at WR?

Again, I think some of you are thinking I disagree with the importance of the position, I do not, I repeat.....I DO NOT!

I am questioning your stated expectation of what the Packers should always have: "two, preferably three, good ones on contract for the next 2-3 years". How do you expect to do that? Give me your plan and tell me how that plan differs from the approach that the Packers have taken over the last 6 or so years.

I am questioning the methods used to not just obtain CB's but to evaluate them. I happen to disagree with the idea that the overall DL and ILB play doesn't influence the CB play. When your secondary can concentrate on defending the pass and not forever (no pressure), it is going to make those players look at lot better. When your front 7 can't hold or penetrate the LOS, whether its against the run or the pass, that puts a lot more pressure on your entire secondary to cover more field and for a longer period of time.

My plan-- don't have such a horrible track record when picking corners. The Packers still need corners because they missed high. Randall and Rollins both missed. King has been very spotty, to the extend that you probably don't want to keep him beyond next year. Alexander hit big, but Jackson flopped royally. So my plan is to hit better than 20% in the top two rounds.

What you're saying in this second part is obviously true-- the less time a secondary has to cover and the more pressure the pass rush is providing, the better they will perform. But adding an off-ball linebacker or the type of interior defensive lineman that most people have been talking about is not going to have a significant impact on the pass rush, so its impact on the secondary is much less substantial.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Much like what happened at WR?

Again, I think some of you are thinking I disagree with the importance of the position, I do not, I repeat.....I DO NOT!

I am questioning your stated expectation of what the Packers should always have: "two, preferably three, good ones on contract for the next 2-3 years". How do you expect to do that? Give me your plan and tell me how that plan differs from the approach that the Packers have taken over the last 6 or so years.

I am questioning the methods used to not just obtain CB's but to evaluate them. I happen to disagree with the idea that the overall DL and ILB play doesn't influence the CB play. When your secondary can concentrate on defending the pass and not forever (no pressure), it is going to make those players look at lot better. When your front 7 can't hold or penetrate the LOS, whether its against the run or the pass, that puts a lot more pressure on your entire secondary to cover more field and for a longer period of time.

Because right now the Packers have one good CB that looks likely to be on the team after next season. That's not good. You could line up Clark, Donald, Watt, and one of the Bosas but if your team's corners are one good player and two subpar guys, it's not going to matter very much. You need to balance the two.

Ideal would be three guys under contract but I understand that that rarely happens, however, two should be a minimum in the NFL today.

And the Packers plan over the last 6 years or so has been very much in line with finding more corners, they've just done a mediocre (that's being nice) job of it. I have never said DL play does't affect CB play, it very much does! However, understand that the Packers OLB occupy the pass rushing role of the DL and so I include the Smiths and, hopefully, Gary in that analysis.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You could line up Clark, Donald, Watt, and one of the Bosas but if your team's corners are one good player and two subpar guys, it's not going to matter very much. You need to balance the two.

I can get on board with your last highlighted words. Because, I do think its a balance. I can take what you said and counter with "You can take 3 top CB's in the NFL and put sub par players around them and I don't care how good those 3 are, the other team is probably going to beat you in other ways and if given enough time, most QB's can find an open receiver.

My plan-- don't have such a horrible track record when picking corners. The Packers still need corners because they missed high.

Well yeah that would be the plan, but so far, neither GM has had a ton of success at it. TT missed more than his share and Gute is batting 50%. So how do we get better at finding them? Like I asked before, is it scouting, coaching or the players around them? I think we saw our CB's playing better last season because they had better players around them. I would like to see the approach of continuing to improve the Defense, all 11 spots, through whatever means possible, but you can only fill so many holes each season and as much as I want more good CB's, I hope we don't need to use a top 3 pick to get one, because as the 49'ers uncovered, we are really weak up front and down the middle.

 

[OldSchool101]

Again, I agree with both of you as to the importance of the CB position, but where TT and now Gute (to some extent) have failed in recent history is actually consistently hitting on CB's in the draft with high picks. Alexander and to some extent King are their 2 combined successes.

So IMO, you use a combination of the two approaches. I also think it all starts with solid scouting and coaching. I know some disagree with me, but I think the Packers have lacked in both of those categories over the last several years in regards to the CB position and because of it, have needlessly squandered some valuable draft resources.

I also think that we see better CB play with a better front 7. We saw some indications of that with having the Smith Brothers last season. Improve the DL some more, as well as ILB and I bet your CB's look better.

I particularly agree with the being more proactive upfront and that leads to more forced mistakes by opposing QB's. You get that with the concept of pressure and I also think what is missed more is the full court pressure in conjunction with being more physical in re-routing or slowing receivers at the LOS and disturbing route tree timing of opposing receivers. We saw the lack of that under Capers mainly and it made even above average DB's look like raw rooks. That last thought was also another factor that led to the release and sub-par performance of some pretty good draft selections and additions by TT (Casey Hayward comes to mind just as an example).

It's just my opinion, but when you run a 3-4 and send in an OLB regular (like we do with Z) you need to have at least 2 dominant at DT. Conversely, you can get away with just 2 dominant DT/DE in a 4-3 and the other 2 get diluted more, but it shows itself more as a weakness in a 3-4, I think because you can game plan around teams with just 1 solid upfront (GB). You get to teams like SF and they have all facets covered upfront and never let the play get away.

I see another DT as a top priority and I think it would cover up some backend issues where we could compromise and go after a couple 3rd day selections at CB verses the chasing our proverbial tail at our first selection. That doesn't even touch the effect of the loss of resources in building an equivalent Offensive powerhouse, which is what we are now witnessing

 

[PikeBadger]

The biggest thing I want to point out on the now turned CB discussion is that in my opinion a GOOD GM needs to hit on at least 40% of his picks....rounded up that's 3 guys. A GREAT GM needs to hit on 50% of his picks....rounded up that's 4 guys.

Without going deep into the Packers' draft history, we don't come away from draft classes with typically more than 2 solid guys a year. Just going back to our most recent class I'd say we have 2.5(Savage, Jenkins, Sternberger if he plays out....)

Great CBs can be had outside of the 1st 2 Rounds, for some reason the Packers just can't sniff them out. Or when we do find them, we let them walk(Tramon Williams)

Yes, I understand that the lower the round, the less likely a chance of a successful NFL career, but Gute has got to change our luck down there.

Last year's top 25 ranked CBs through Week 17 according to PFF drafted after 64th Overall:

1. Richard Sherman-154th/2011
2. Quinton Dunbar-UDFA/2015
6. Tramon Williams-UDFA/2006
7. Stephen Nelson-98th/2015
8. Brian Poole-UDFA/2016
9. Jason McCourty-203rd/2009
13. Shaquill Griffin-90th/2017
14. K'Waun Williams-UDFA/2014
18. Mike Hilton-UDFA/2016
19. Nickell Robey-Coleman-UDFA/2013
20. Troy Hill-UDFA/2015
22. Tramaine Brock Sr-UDFA/2010
24. Johnathan Jones-UDFA/2018
25. Kenny Moore II-UDFA/2018

That list is informative, funny AND astounding.

 

[Dantés]

I can get on board with your last highlighted words. Because, I do think its a balance. I can take what you said and counter with "You can take 3 top CB's in the NFL and put sub par players around them and I don't care how good those 3 are, the other team is probably going to beat you in other ways and if given enough time, most QB's can find an open receiver.

Well yeah that would be the plan, but so far, neither GM has had a ton of success at it. TT missed more than his share and Gute is batting 50%. So how do we get better at finding them? Like I asked before, is it scouting, coaching or the players around them? I think we saw our CB's playing better last season because they had better players around them. I would like to see the approach of continuing to improve the Defense, all 11 spots, through whatever means possible, but you can only fill so many holes each season and as much as I want more good CB's, I hope we don't need to use a top 3 pick to get one, because as the 49'ers uncovered, we are really weak up front and down the middle.

The lesson learned from Gute's miss so far should be to not draft guys high who you need to pull way out of their schematic comfort zone.

Iowa plays as little man defense as just about anyone in college football. They drafted a corner from that defense that had a lot of the physical tools you'd look for in a man corner and gave him to Pettine, who obviously uses zone like every DC in the league uses zone, but who is fundamentally a man coverage defense guy.

The lesson learned from TT's misses down the stretch for him is that you need someone in the organization with the power and willingness to pull the plug on a guy like TT quicker than that when his health is failing.

If we are just going to forever use that NFCCG as the north star for our personnel decisions, then we had better just cut everyone and sign all new players. Because that game really exposed us more on the edges than it did up the middle, where all those big investments on the defense reside, like the Smiths.

And none of this is to say don't get a LB (though I don't expect a good option to be around at #30) or don't get an iDL (though I don't like this class at the position and they might still be better off signing a run specialist veteran), but it is to say that cornerback is a big need and one they should address early if the value presents itself.

 

[Dantés]

The biggest thing I want to point out on the now turned CB discussion is that in my opinion a GOOD GM needs to hit on at least 40% of his picks....rounded up that's 3 guys. A GREAT GM needs to hit on 50% of his picks....rounded up that's 4 guys.

Without going deep into the Packers' draft history, we don't come away from draft classes with typically more than 2 solid guys a year. Just going back to our most recent class I'd say we have 2.5(Savage, Jenkins, Sternberger if he plays out....)

Great CBs can be had outside of the 1st 2 Rounds, for some reason the Packers just can't sniff them out. Or when we do find them, we let them walk(Tramon Williams)

Yes, I understand that the lower the round, the less likely a chance of a successful NFL career, but Gute has got to change our luck down there.

Last year's top 25 ranked CBs through Week 17 according to PFF drafted after 64th Overall:

1. Richard Sherman-154th/2011
2. Quinton Dunbar-UDFA/2015
6. Tramon Williams-UDFA/2006
7. Stephen Nelson-98th/2015
8. Brian Poole-UDFA/2016
9. Jason McCourty-203rd/2009
13. Shaquill Griffin-90th/2017
14. K'Waun Williams-UDFA/2014
18. Mike Hilton-UDFA/2016
19. Nickell Robey-Coleman-UDFA/2013
20. Troy Hill-UDFA/2015
22. Tramaine Brock Sr-UDFA/2010
24. Johnathan Jones-UDFA/2018
25. Kenny Moore II-UDFA/2018

What's the point you're trying to make with this list?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I can get on board with your last highlighted words. Because, I do think its a balance. I can take what you said and counter with "You can take 3 top CB's in the NFL and put sub par players around them and I don't care how good those 3 are, the other team is probably going to beat you in other ways and if given enough time, most QB's can find an open receiver.

You are very correct. However, the Packers have a couple of pretty good pass rushers outside Clark, so a weak pass rush isn't really an option.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

What's the point you're trying to make with this list?

The point I was trying to make is what @Pokerbrat2000 already underscored. There needs to be a better evaluation of CBs from this team. Ted Thompson drafted 11 CBs in his 12 draft classes and all he had to show for it was Casey Hayward and Micah Hyde; both of whom he let walk away. I'm going to call Tramon Williams' signing awash because he didn't sign him after the Draft, he signed him after he had spent the entire preseason with the Texans.

Gute I'll say the book is still out on. But we should be able to find guys who can provide quality depth and/or push our starters beyond just the 1st or 2nd Round.

 

[Dantés]

The point I was trying to make is what @Pokerbrat2000 already underscored. There needs to be a better evaluation of CBs from this team. Ted Thompson drafted 11 CBs in his 12 draft classes and all he had to show for it was Casey Hayward and Micah Hyde; both of whom he let walk away. I'm going to call Tramon Williams' signing awash because he didn't sign him after the Draft, he signed him after he had spent the entire preseason with the Texans.

Gute I'll say the book is still out on. But we should be able to find guys who can provide quality depth and/or push our starters beyond just the 1st or 2nd Round.

How do you think that your list illustrates that point?

That list, by definition, cherry picks the best performers at cornerback last year who were taken outside of the top 2 rounds. So it selects for what you want to see twice over.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So I disagree with the idea that you can say it's more or less the same product.

Besides Williams, what has changed as far as Packer CB's from 2019? I'm still counting on Alexander to continue to get better. That was really King's first relatively healthy season and if we learned anything from Casey Hayward, good health can make a difference. So I expect a healthy King to improve as well. Sullivan and Hollman are still developing and one could step up. Williams is out there if the Packers want him, otherwise I am guessing between now and Sept. they will either draft, develop or sign a decent 3rd CB. Again, I am not opposed to finding CB's in the draft, I am just not as concerned that this could be Kings last season or that the current situation necessarily calls for once again investing a high pick in one and thus not investing in positions that appear to be in worse shape. This was how I felt about the Gary pick, I actually liked Gary, until we signed the Smiths and so when he was selected, I felt it was a total luxury pick that we couldn't afford. I will feel that same way if Gute grabs a CB in any of the first 3 rounds.