Packers vs Panthers Studs n Duds

Sanguine camper

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Next 2 years..32 games he had 27 sacks.

97 - 11 sacks
98 - 16 sacks
So apprently age wasn't an issue

Look.. I agree with you.. But again my point is not every player has great games all the time.

Injuries could be a part.. Opponents doing diff things that Gary isn't used to.

You think it's pathetic..and that's fine. I dont and explained why.

Just have to disagree about our opinions
In the past 3 games, Gary went against o lines that were struggling mightily. He should've been able to have some big games or at least have even a modest impact. I just think that disappearing in those games should be viewed similarly to the same poor performance as Joe Barry. People are upset about Barry's poor performance as they should be. I think that other poor performances should also elicit their share of criticism.
 

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Regarding Jaire, this isn't the first time he's had issues with the "captaincy." MLF used to have season-long captains as voted by the team. He moved to game captains when Za'Darius Smith and Jaire got upset when they weren't voted captains by their teammates...
 

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Duds: The entire defense, especially the highly paid guys who continue to not play up to their salary.

Studs: The offense. The young guys continue to carry their overrated teammates on defense for the 15th year in a row
 

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In the past 3 games, Gary went against o lines that were struggling mightily. He should've been able to have some big games or at least have even a modest impact. I just think that disappearing in those games should be viewed similarly to the same poor performance as Joe Barry. People are upset about Barry's poor performance as they should be. I think that other poor performances should also elicit their share of criticism.
While there is no doubt that certain players on the D seem to be missing at times, I think most of that falls on the coaches. Whether is is not motivating these guys or putting them in a position of success, players just aren't playing up to their potential 100& of the time IMO. Throw in the fact that many of the guys that seem to go missing, have big fat contracts and the problem of motivation becomes clearer.

There is no doubt in my mind that Gary, Clark and Alexander are very talented players. However, if they aren't put into a system that plays to their strengths, not only are they going to fail, but they are going to get pretty frustrated in the process. I think Alexander is a text book example of that happening.
 

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While there is no doubt that certain players on the D seem to be missing at times, I think most of that falls on the coaches. Whether is is not motivating these guys or putting them in a position of success, players just aren't playing up to their potential 100& of the time IMO. Throw in the fact that many of the guys that seem to go missing, have big fat contracts and the problem of motivation becomes clearer.

There is no doubt in my mind that Gary, Clark and Alexander are very talented players. However, if they aren't put into a system that plays to their strengths, not only are they going to fail, but they are going to get pretty frustrated in the process. I think Alexander is a text book example of that happening.
I agree. I would hope that Gary is talented enough to thrive despite the poor coaching but it may not be so. I have mentioned in other posts that it's difficult to judge individual performances because the coaching is so bad. I just think that some of the star players like Gary, Alexander and Clark should be able to make plays despite Joe Barry. He may be so poor at his job, however, that I'm open minded to the reality that may be impossible.
 

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I agree. I would hope that Gary is talented enough to thrive despite the poor coaching but it may not be so. I have mentioned in other posts that it's difficult to judge individual performances because the coaching is so bad. I just think that some of the star players like Gary, Alexander and Clark should be able to make plays despite Joe Barry. He may be so poor at his job, however, that I'm open minded to the reality that may be impossible.
I agree.

Yes, it would be great if each and every player could play at their highest level, on every snap, but.....

- It is the job of the coaching staff to put them in a position to excel individually and collectively.

- It is the job of the coaching staff to fit all the pieces together to prosper.

- It is the job of the coaching staff to study film and game plan for each offense that they will be facing.

- It is the job of the coaching staff to make in-game adjustments.

- It is the job of the coaching staff to motivate and remotivate its players before and during a game.

- It is the job of the coaching staff to individually coach players during practices to improve in areas that they need improvement on.

I could probably think of a dozen more things that the coaching staff is responsible for, but these are the ones that popped into my head. Also, I believe they are ones that Barry and his staff do a very poor job of. Let's remember, these aren't a bunch of first and second year guys on defense (like the offense). Nor are many of them late round picks. This is a very veteran, highly paid, dominated by first rounders and a few Pro Bowlers sprinkled in defense.
 

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31:40 [MLF]: oh certainly I mean that was definitely frustrating um you know I think but it wasn't just it wasn't just on the defense I mean offensively you got to give them a a breather especially if we're bleeding a little bit defensively we got to find a way to you know put together a scoring drive we got to find a way to get some first downs to allow those guys to recover recoup.

This is so reminiscent of 2017/2018 with McCarthy and Cappers. However, if by blaming the offense, down 2 of their preferred starters at WR, our #1 TE, and how many guys at less than 90%, still puts up 33 points. Somehow the offensive is the issue because they have two 3 and outs at a time the DC can't find a way to stop the worst team in the league? I didn't get to see the game because it was only broadcast in WI and the Carolinas, but I would bet money that just like all other failures on the offense the past years... MLF got cute with the play calls, stopped doing what worked and the youngsters failed to execute. Once again MLF got outcoached, and by some Christmas blessing we lucked out a win.

Honestly, I think I would have preferred the loss, at least I third defensive ****, and MLF's idiotic defense of Barry, might get rid of LaFleur and the rest of his band of miss fits.
 

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I agree.

Yes, it would be great if each and every player could play at their highest level, on every snap, but.....

- It is the job of the coaching staff to put them in a position to excel individually and collectively.

- It is the job of the coaching staff to fit all the pieces together to prosper.

- It is the job of the coaching staff to study film and game plan for each offense that they will be facing.

- It is the job of the coaching staff to make in-game adjustments.

- It is the job of the coaching staff to motivate and remotivate its players before and during a game.

- It is the job of the coaching staff to individually coach players during practices to improve on areas they may be lacking.

I could probably think of a dozen more things that the coaching staff is responsible for, but these are the ones that popped into my head. Also, I believe they are ones that Barry and his staff do a very poor job of. Let's remember, these aren't a bunch of first and second year guys on defense (like the offense). Nor are many of them late round picks. This is a very veteran, highly paid, dominated by first rounders and a few Pro Bowlers sprinkled in defense.

More than the failure of Barry, the D-line coach and linebacker coaches have been horrible in preparing the players to play. If the D players are wanting things simplified, why aren't there position coaches helping to fix this?
 

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I think you are right. While I am fine with players being confident, prove it on the field, not just with your mouth. Sometimes there is a fine line between confidence and arrogance.
And many times there are multiple glasses of fine wine between a 4 and a 10.
 

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More than the failure of Barry, the D-line coach and linebacker coaches have been horrible in preparing the players to play. If the D players are wanting things simplified, why aren't there position coaches helping to fix this?
Right, which is why I said:
I believe they are ones that Barry and his staff do a very poor job of.

Ultimately, Barry is responsible for his staff, as is MLF for ALL the coaches. So do you cut off the whole head and start over? Personally, I like MLF as the head coach and wouldn't fire him. What I would do is fire the entire Defensive coaching staff, hire a more (hopefully)capable DC and let him pick his staff. I would also hire a more creative OC and let him/her do the play calling from the press box.
 

chemist

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Right, which is why I said:


Ultimately, Barry is responsible for his staff, as is MLF for ALL the coaches. So do you cut off the whole head and start over? Personally, I like MLF as the head coach and wouldn't fire him. What I would do is fire the entire Defensive coaching staff, hire a more (hopefully)capable DC and let him pick his staff. I would also hire a more creative OC and let him/her do the play calling from the press box.
I feel MLF could be a good HC if he stopped trying to control everything . You can't manage the game properly while still trying to call every play. that have to be ready to go every 30 seconds. There's barely enough time to look thru those charts they carry to get the next play in. Leaves very little time to actually focus on strategy, tactics etc.
The best bosses hire smart people to be around them and then let them do their job, while managing the whole shebang from a less time stressed space where you can think things thru.
 

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Right, which is why I said:


Ultimately, Barry is responsible for his staff, as is MLF for ALL the coaches. So do you cut off the whole head and start over? Personally, I like MLF as the head coach and wouldn't fire him. What I would do is fire the entire Defensive coaching staff, hire a more (hopefully)capable DC and let him pick his staff. I would also hire a more creative OC and let him/her do the play calling from the press box.
Isn't a little inconsistent? You concur that MLF is responsible for all the coaches, but you want to get rid of all the D coaches that he's responsible for, get a new OC that he's responsible for, and change the way the plays are called, that he's responsible for. What is it that you do like about MLF as the HC?
 

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I feel MLF could be a good HC if he stopped trying to control everything . You can't manage the game properly while still trying to call every play. that have to be ready to go every 30 seconds. There's barely enough time to look thru those charts they carry to get the next play in. Leaves very little time to actually focus on strategy, tactics etc.
The best bosses hire smart people to be around them and then let them do their job, while managing the whole shebang from a less time stressed space where you can think things thru.
Yeah. I think it's the play calling too. And in crunch time; I don't think he is very special in calling plays. Would rather have him looking at the game overall. If he feels strongly about something; he can always call it. imho
 
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Matt has shown to be proficient in Offensive results. He has had a few games and halves of games where he’s maybe not had the proper mix of run/pass. I think he could use an advisor on how to use the clock to close games out better. He did better in this Panthers game, but I still feel we had a better chance to win that Giants game has he called the last several plays differently. He could’ve bled the Giants better slowly and methodically. There’s an art to that and I enjoy teams who are good at it. That said I think Matt is a well respected HC and very good at scheming up plays. Whatever he’s been doing on Offense is working.

I think in watching this Panthers game specifically, I noticed some breakdowns in handing players off and decision making in the secondary. One play was Anthony Johnson leaving Ja’ alone after #25 left his post and showed a big peak at his cards to blitz. Johnson had no reason to stay back 12 yards away with Ja literally covering 2 WR on the boundary once #25 flipped his blitz card. Bryce saw a 2 WR on 1 CB with an obvious CB Blitz in the making and so did everyone else. So he immediately threw it that way. Had Johnson run downfield in anticipation of that he
1. INT a pass for a Pick 6
2. Makes Young divert to read #2
3. Makes a tackle for a short gain.
Instead he chose
4. Stay in a zone 12 yards away with no one around. A great Safety chooses #1 and a good Safety chooses #2,#3.
An inexperienced Safety is afraid to leave his post and plays it to script and isn’t confident enough to adapt and shine and make his DC look good. It’s just one example of many I’ve seen of how we got gashed by inexperience in the secondary time and again.

Upon review Young did have some remarkable throws, Stokes had pretty good coverage on both TD’s and he played better than the stat line imo. He actually tipped that 1st TD throw you could see the great bobbled catch and missed a pure deflection by 1”.
In 10 games Bryce makes 8 of those type throws, it just happened 2 of them were in our game and both were against Stokes’ above average to good level coverage.
 
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An inexperienced Safety is afraid to leave his post and plays it to script and isn’t confident enough to adapt and shine and make his DC look good. It’s just one example of many I’ve seen of how we got gashed by inexperience in the secondary time and again.
I think missing Savage's experience and more importantly his ability to communicate and line up the DBs is hurting more than we like to admit.
 

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Matt has shown to be proficient in Offensive results. He has had a few games and halves of games where he’s maybe not had the proper mix of run/pass. I think he could use an advisor on how to use the clock to close games out better. He did better in this Panthers game, but I still feel we had a better chance to win that Giants game has he called the last several plays differently. He could’ve bled the Giants better slowly and methodically. There’s an art to that and I enjoy teams who are good at it. That said I think Matt is a well respected HC and very good at scheming up plays. Whatever he’s been doing on Offense is working.

I think in watching this Panthers game specifically, I noticed some breakdowns in handing players off and decision making in the secondary. One play was Anthony Johnson leaving Ja’ alone after #25 left his post and showed a big peak at his cards to blitz. Johnson had no reason to stay back 12 yards away with Ja literally covering 2 WR on the boundary once #25 flipped his blitz card. Bryce saw a 2 WR on 1 CB with an obvious CB Blitz in the making and so did everyone else. So he immediately threw it that way. Had Johnson run downfield in anticipation of that he
1. INT a pass for a Pick 6
2. Makes Young divert to read #2
3. Makes a tackle for a short gain.
Instead he chose
4. Stay in a zone 12 yards away with no one around. A great Safety chooses #1 and a good Safety chooses #2,#3.
An inexperienced Safety is afraid to leave his post and plays it to script and isn’t confident enough to adapt and shine and make his DC look good. It’s just one example of many I’ve seen of how we got gashed by inexperience in the secondary time and again.

Upon review Young did have some remarkable throws, Stokes had pretty good coverage on both TD’s and he played better than the stat line imo. He actually tipped that 1st TD throw you could see the great bobbled catch and missed a pure deflection by 1”.
In 10 games Bryce makes 8 of those type throws, it just happened 2 of them were in our game and both were against Stokes’ above average to good level coverage.
I am not questioning the Packers offensive results. Putting up 30 + points vs Panthers should have been sufficient to easily win that game. Instead it came down to a nail biter and if the Panthers had one extra second to call a time out they could have set up for a FG to tie the game.
In the post game interview MLF throws the offense under the bus as being part of the reason the game was so close when it was obvious to everyone else that it was the DEF that almost cost us this game.
If we can't win just about every game
with a 30 point performance on OFF then changes need to be made on DEF to rectify that issue but MLF refuses to do so.
And that was my point. He needs to manage from afar, see things clearly, keep emotions out of your decision making, and do the right thing for the team.
 

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I am not questioning the Packers offensive results. Putting up 30 + points vs Panthers should have been sufficient to easily win that game. Instead it came down to a nail biter and if the Panthers had one extra second to call a time out they could have set up for a FG to tie the game.
In the post game interview MLF throws the offense under the bus as being part of the reason the game was so close when it was obvious to everyone else that it was the DEF that almost cost us this game.
If we can't win just about every game
with a 30 point performance on OFF then changes need to be made on DEF to rectify that issue but MLF refuses to do so.
And that was my point. He needs to manage from afar, see things clearly, keep emotions out of your decision making, and do the right thing for the team.
Someone said going into Week One that we would need to put up roughly 30 or more points a week to win consistently. Cannot recall who that was.
 

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Someone said going into Week One that we would need to put up roughly 30 or more points a week to win consistently. Cannot recall who that was.
That was me. I've been saying it for three years now. If you look at our track record, that's what it would take for the Packers to have been in the hunt for another Lombardi Trophy. The fact is, despite occasional successes by the Packers defense, we're usually caught on that island.

The thing that's frustrating is that there are games where they play so well against good teams, then turn around and play a horrible team, and can't get off the field. Point in reference, the game we saw this past Sunday. Making Baker Mayfield look like a to 5 or 6 QB in the league is just plain humiliating. To put it bluntly, we were lucky to beat a terrible team with a terrible QB.
 

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That was me. I've been saying it for three years now. If you look at our track record, that's what it would take for the Packers to have been in the hunt for another Lombardi Trophy. The fact is, despite occasional successes by the Packers defense, we're usually caught on that island.

The thing that's frustrating is that there are games where they play so well against good teams, then turn around and play a horrible team, and can't get off the field. Point in reference, the game we saw this past Sunday. Making Baker Mayfield look like a to 5 or 6 QB in the league is just plain humiliating. To put it bluntly, we were lucky to beat a terrible team with a terrible QB.
Agree with everything you said. The packers have always been able to put up a ton of points, but you descibed perfectly their signature move of not being able to keep the opponent from doing the same.
This new group of young guys on Offense are no different than past ones. They are doing their job. Plently of points on the board.
We all know what needs to be fixed.
 

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Isn't a little inconsistent? You concur that MLF is responsible for all the coaches, but you want to get rid of all the D coaches that he's responsible for, get a new OC that he's responsible for, and change the way the plays are called, that he's responsible for. What is it that you do like about MLF as the HC?
I believe that MLF has done a very good job with the offense this year, working with a first year starting QB, as well as rookies and 2nd year Receivers and TE's. The offense has shown improvement since week 1. Why do I think he needs to give up play calling and hire a new OC to do it? I prefer the HC managing the game from the sidelines, which I believe MLF would excel more at, if not tethered to the offensive play calling. I do not think Adam Stenavich has proven himself to be a top OC in his 2 year stint as one. Solid line coach, but not happy with him as an OC. Whether it is MLF or Stenavich calling plays, I would prefer someone that is a bit less predictable and is sitting up in the press box with his staff, making changes on the fly.

As far as MLF and the Defense. You bet he is in charge of the defensive coaches and if he has had one major F-Up since becoming HC, it was hiring/not firing Barry. This is the season he needs to right that wrong, otherwise, I think if things don't improve in 2024, MLF should be canned.
 
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We all know what needs to be fixed.
Bingo. I believe the offense is on good shape, will need a RB and OT in the draft/free agency. Otherwise, the WR's and TE's, along with Love should progress quite a bit in year 2 together.

Fire Barry, use one of the top 3 picks on a S, add another CB and ILB within your first 5 picks and we will see some improvement.
 

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I am not questioning the Packers offensive results. Putting up 30 + points vs Panthers should have been sufficient to easily win that game. Instead it came down to a nail biter and if the Panthers had one extra second to call a time out they could have set up for a FG to tie the game.
In the post game interview MLF throws the offense under the bus as being part of the reason the game was so close when it was obvious to everyone else that it was the DEF that almost cost us this game.
If we can't win just about every game
with a 30 point performance on OFF then changes need to be made on DEF to rectify that issue but MLF refuses to do so.
And that was my point. He needs to manage from afar, see things clearly, keep emotions out of your decision making, and do the right thing for the team.
Absolutely! I couldn't believe my ears when I heard MLF throw his offense under the bus. Hell, it was his offense that won the game, not his putrid defense that makes PS QBs look like HOFers. IMO we have a MLF problem more than a Barry problem here. Stevie Wonder can see our defense stinks but good old Matt cannot/will not.
 

milani

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I believe that MLF has done a very good job with the offense this year, working with a first year starting QB, as well as rookies and 2nd year Receivers and TE's. The offense has shown improvement since week 1. Why do I think he needs to give up play calling and hire a new OC to do it? I prefer the HC managing the game from the sidelines, which I believe MLF would excel more at, if not tethered to the offensive play calling. I do not think Adam Stenavich has proven himself to be a top OC in his 2 year stint as one. Solid line coach, but not happy with him as an OC. Whether it is MLF or Stenavich calling plays, I would prefer someone that is a bit less predictable and is sitting up in the press box with his staff, making changes on the fly.

As far as MLF and the Defense. You bet he is in charge of the defensive coaches and if he has had one major F-Up since becoming HC, it was hiring/not firing Barry. This is the season he needs to right that wrong, otherwise, I think if things don't improve in 2024, MLF should be canned.
Alongside the defense MLF has had trouble instilling discipline in the overall program. Way too many silly penalties i.e. personal fouls, false starts, and basic formation. These are the non-combative gaffs. A young team needs structure and simplification.
 

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