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Packers Plan To Be Big Spenders

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by TCHickman24, Feb 12, 2014.

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  1. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    Here is what you said that was disputed: "But with Finley probably gone I´m not sure the Packers have a top 5 pass catching unit". Now you are lowering the bar to "at least compete with our receiving corps". Two very different things.


    Let's confirm what we're talking about here. We're talking about decent receiving corps as they exist today. In other words, as an example, Roddy White has fallen off the planet and is a shell of what he was. Injuries slowed him down but it really appears there's more to it. I would take Cobb and Nelson over White and Jones any day of the week and I would take our entire group in a heart beat. The same with Dallas. Miles Austin was invisible so I throw him out. Terrance Williams has not proven enough yet for me to call him special. (Had him on my fantasy team) I take the Pack.

    I would put Denver, New Orleans and Philly right up there. (Probably putting Denver above the others)

    Megatron is the best in the NFL but still not good enough to put them ahead of the Pack. New York? Cruz was not good again and I would take the Pack. (Although Rueben Randal looked very good at times) Chicago? Clearly one of the best 1/2 in the NFL but I would take the Pack (if with Jones). Pitts- no. New England and Cinci? Maybe near the top. The one negative about the Packers is TE with Finley out.

    Sooooooooooo...all that said... I don't see 4 better. I see a debate to be made about a few of these teams being right there but the Pack is without question in the top 5. That I just don't know how a person could argue.
     
  2. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    So they just crack the top 15, and as low as 3rd in the division?? Chicago maybe with the emergence of Jeffery but Detroit is a dumpster fire outside of Calvin.

    The only #1's I would rather have over Jordy from this list are... Dez, Calvin, Julio, Green and DT. And none of those teams have a #2 that I would take over Randall. Possibly Decker but he won't be in Denver much longer.

    On that list I would say fully healthy, New England (with no Gronk they take a huge step down), Denver, and possibly Chicago are the only groups I would take over ours even if Jones isn't resigned.
     
  3. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I said I'm not sure and not that it's a fact, but whatever, let's take a closer look at the teams you didn't agree with being on the same level as the Packers receiving core:


    Roddy White was injured most of last season, nevertheless playing on 13 games. Before that he had more than 1,150 receiving yards for six consecutive seasons. Julio Jones is a stud and did you realize that Harry Douglas had 85 receptions for more than a 1,000 yards???

    Yeah, Austin was a big disappointment in 2013, and although you didn't mention Witten I have to agree taking the Pack over them.

    The Giants had a terrible season, but Cruz (three times over 990 yards) and Nicks (twice over a 1,000 yards) are a pretty good 1-2 combo with Randle being a guy to look out for. Brandon Myers is a decent TE.

    The Bears, in addition to Marshall and Jeffery, have Martellus Bennett at TE, who last season had more catches in a season than Finley ever had and came within eight yards of his career high.

    The Patriots have Edelman, who had more than 100 catches and more than a 1,000 yards, and if Amendola and Gronkowski can stay healthy have a great WR corps with Dobson and Thompkins.

    Cincy has one of the best receivers in the game, Marvin Jones caught 10 TDs last season and they have two young, decent TEs.

    While Cleveland lacks a third receiving threat Gordon and Cameron are amazing talents. Hard to imagine what they would be able to do with a real QB.

    I agree Nelson and Cobb are great WRs, don't forget though that Jordy is the only one so far on this team who had more than 1,000 receiving yards in a season and none of them had more than 85 receptions in a season.

    With all that said I think it is up for discussion if the Packers receiving corps is in the top 5 of the league, especially assuming Finley won't be back.
     
  4. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    That made me laugh for a moment. Don't worry though it's fine being a homer around here.
     
  5. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    Martellus Bennett and Danny Amendola. This is exactly the crap I'm talking about. Classic cases of guys names that get tossed around for no valid reason. Do you play fantasy football? Where would you take these two? I know I'm sick and tired of getting burned by a useless Amendola and Bennett has been one of the most over-rated TE in the NFL.

    Brandon Myers? Huh? ...and no mention of San Fran? I'd take that unit over most as well. Crabtree and Davis make it special without even looking any further.

    Cruz and Nicks are about as happening as Hall and Oats. I am a huge Victor Cruz fan but I'm no longer feeling it with that group.

    Also, being honest about it, could there be a more misleading stat than quoting 1,000 yard seasons? A great receiver can be on an average team and end up with many less yards than a crappier one on a better team. A great receiver on a powerful offense can also end up with less yards. That's what makes Megatron so special. They have crap outside of him so he gets doubled and still kills it.

    Rodgers spreads the ball around. 1,000 yard seasons tell a fraction of the story on this team. Jordy snags everything thrown his way and then some. Put him on most teams and he'd get 1,000 plus every year. Jordy Nelson is a perfect example of why total yards only tell a fraction of the story at receiver.
     
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  6. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    Has nothing to do with being a homer just my opinion. I personally don't think he is nearly as valuable as some here do, if it were up to me I'd be more concerned with getting Jordy and Randall extended rather then worry about making sure our #3 WR is here
     
  7. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    How is it that you continually post things like this, but the minute anyone returns it in spades you complain about it?

    Seriously, as you would say, "dude". Either stop with these kinds of posts or expect it in return.

    You know what made me laugh?
    ....Martellus Bennett and Danny Amendola made me laugh. Especially Martellus Bennett.
     
  8. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Once again you're not providing any facts, just staying your opinion trying to make us believe it is a fact. See my post above for what Bennett did last season in Chicago on a team that featured Marshall, Jeffery and a RB in Forte that takes away catches as well.

    He's a better TE than each one on the Packers roster. The guy had 79 receptions in Oakland in 2012.

    True, Rodgers spreads the ball around a lot, but I still think the receivers benefit from him throwing them the ball. BTW Jordy twice had more than 1,250 receiving yards during the last three seasons.
     
  9. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Absolutely agree with you on that.
     
  10. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Dude, it drives me crazy when people try to force their opinion on others without providing any facts.

    Are there any facts that would back you up laughing about Bennett or Amendola??? If so, I would like to hear them.
     
  11. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    lmao

    "Dude"... What "facts" does anyone need about Bennett or Amendola for ANYONE that follows the NFL? Do you actually watch games and follow players and follow other teams during the season? Do you play fantasy where you follow these guys and play close attention all year long or do you just randomly quote stats when a debate arises without even knowing squat about these guys? Can you tell us about Bennett or Amendola without doing a google search on them and pretending you really know who the he## they are?

    You keep quoting stats and like I said, receiver stats can be grossly misleading.... but as long as you put so much stock in them...exactly what stats tell us Bennett or Amendola are worthy of being mentioned when debating top notch receivers? My lord... how many more years are we going to say about Amendola, "Just wait until he's healthy for a full season!" Forget it... he is who he is and he can't even break 600 yards a year if that's what you need. There is zero logical reason to think he's anything other than what he's shown...and that's nothing more than flashes of a decent receiver.

    Same exact deal with Bennett! I'm not sure I could name a more over-hyped TE in the entire NFL! It's been the same with him since he came into the league. Have you followed his career at all? This guy has had about as an anemic career as a player can have! Now he finally put together back to back "decent" years and we should think he's all that? Nah.... he was worthless in Dallas and two years with decent numbers does not a decent TE make.

    This is funny. Did you ever think maybe you might not be as up to speed on some of these players and maybe it's you that's off base and maybe just maybe doing nothing but reciting stats can get you in trouble?
     
  12. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    You know why Bennett didn't put up huge numbers in Dallas??? He was mainly there to block for the run (ever heard of Jason Witten???), he was actually one of the best TEs in the league doing that from 2009-11. Since he became the primary pass catching TE over the last two years with the Giants and Bears he has 120 catches for 1,385 yards and 10 TDs. Pretty decent numbers IMO.

    Amendola is a talented receiver who has had a lot of injuries, nevertheless he's been productive when healthy. Do you know he has more receptions than James Jones since 2009 while missing 26 games compared to Jones missing two over that span???
     
  13. Ace

    Ace Cheesehead

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    I remember my Cowboy fan buddy saying "Marty B" was a HOF TE in the making. I'm still laughing at that one
     
  14. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    That's the key. WITH Jones.
    Without him, it's an average core with Nelson, Cobb, Boykin being average for a trio, and the #4 & #5 being 100% unproven and risky.
    Have to keep Jones because..... guys....... get hurt.
    Those #4 & #5 WR's have to be able to play.
    Our #5 target used to be Jones or Cobb.

    Now it's Brandon Bostick or Myles White.
    Gigantic dropoff. Hard to dispute that, but go ahead.....
     
  15. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Not sure I agree about Nelson/Cobb/Boykin being average. Of course Rodgers makes them look better, but I would say that Nelson is undervalued by most. Cobb is very good. That duo alone is top 10. And I think Boykin is better than most #3s.

    Yeah, Jones is better than Boykin, but is it $5 or $6 million better? Unfortunately we have to think in those terms. We can't keep all our players with the salary cap and all and I would say Jones is expendable. We all fretted that Jennings was leaving. I think I was called a fool because I posted that other players would step up. Jones leaving won't hurt. And although White, Bostic, Harper (I really liked this kid coming out of Kansas State last year) have yet to prove anything, I would be surprised if one of them didn't step up and become a player. And Boykin and Cobb are still ascending players as well. And we have a draft coming up that is absolutely loaded with 2-3rd round quality WRs. Give it 3 years and there will be a thread about 'how are we ever going to get along if Bostick/White/Harper/Boykin leaves in FA?'
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2014
  16. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    your buddy is not alone. the guy will retire just a guy and up until that day "some guys" will just insist he's this all pro in waiting. it's hilarious.
     
  17. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    again...honestly..."Our #5 target used to be Jones or Cobb". wow...ya...that sounds really impressive. my how we have fallen huh? not. jones and cobb were no better than that at that time. do you choose to spin this on purpose like this or do you really not "get" the difference between cobb, nelson, driver and jones then and now? this is comical. like amish said...Boykin and Cobb are still ascending players. by your "logic" the packers would be amazing had they just kept lofton, freeman and Jefferson and had them now. can you imagine having jordy as your 5th receiver?
     
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  18. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    never heard of Jason witten. can you google him for me and post his stats and find out his favorite color?
     
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  19. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Their defense was good, not great. The overall team was good, not great. Any defense would have looked great when facing a bunch of backup QBs making their first starts.
     
  20. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Nobody said Bennett was an All-Pro or HOF TE, but since he has been the primary pass catching TE on a team he has decent receiving stats. With the Packers current situation at TE, I would take the Bears receiving corps in a heartbeat.

    Once again, you´re not capable of understanding a post. Did you get that Bennett was a run and pass blocking TE during his tenure in Dallas because they had Witten as a pass catching TE??? That´s why he didn´t put up huge numbers, not because he´s not any good.

    But I know you´re only capable of looking at stats at Pro Football Reference and deciding a TE is a bust because he didn´t put up great receiving numbers as you have no idea there are run and pass blocking guys out there as well.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
  21. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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  22. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    delete
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
  23. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Edited? Nope. Tedium? Your word count exceeds my own, if that's possible. "Others won't always agree with you..." Ain't that the truth. Childish? Nothing like posing as the faux adult in the room.
     
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  24. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Your post suggesting that perhaps the NFL should spring for a universal medical screening (I seem to recall for spinal stenosis) was supported by the comment that the NFL generates, after all, over "$9 billion in income". Your point being, one supposes, that NFL franchises make a lot of money and can easily afford such an expense.

    I pointed out that the $9 billion is "revenue not income" and subsequently that the term income is "unnecessarily vague." This point is not trivial, because most NFL franchises are not very good businesses and don't make very much in the way of "net income" or "profit". You seemed confused on this point, offering up some flustered IRS references.

    I subsequently pointed out that the bottom 22 NFL teams averaged about $21 - $22 million in net income according to Forbes' recent estimates. Thinking that was sufficient to make the point I stopped there.

    I was evidently wrong. Net operating margins for these bottom 2/3 of franchises is in the range of negative to about 10%. This is a dismal return on investment for a non-manufacturing or non-retail business, i.e., one with no cost of goods sold to speak of.

    The cost of universal medical screenings should be a point of negotiation with the union. However, the union may not want it because the players may not want it. The only reason the owners should perform such screenings unilaterally and at their own expense, for this or any variety of conditions, is if they see a future liability in failing to do so.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2014
  25. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    Nope...never read Pro Football Reference. It's real simple. You'll notice I seldom even comment on college players. Why? ...because I just can't get into the college game and hence, don't follow the players very closely like many of the guys on here (other than the bagggders).

    I love NFL football however and follow the players closely... especially on the offensive side of the ball. Fantasy football keeps me out of trouble and I have a blast with it. What is really funny, it's guys like you that consistently finish last or close to it in fantasy and yet you're always the most outspoken about opinions and how you post "facts". You get your info from doing on-line stat and info searches and regurgitating what you hear idiot fans around you puke out.

    Judging by your posts like this one above, it's completely obvious to me that you're one of those guys that does the very thing you claim to "hate". You don't have a clue about half the guys you comment on until you google them and/or have your little stat websites to attempt to make your point.

    Be honest for once, could you give me in detail, the career breakdowns of Bennett and Amendola without looking them up? You know it and I know it. You are an expert arm-chair GM on the internet but I suspect if we were chatting in conversation you wouldn't have nearly as much of that great knowledge without a computer in front of you.
     
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