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Packers not in Canton

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by lambeaulambo, Aug 6, 2011.

  1. lambeaulambo

    lambeaulambo Cheesehead

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    Who do you list as some good candidates?
     
  2. GBPack2010

    GBPack2010 Cheesehead

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    There's Jerry Kramer...
     
  3. Jasonfan

    Jasonfan Cheesehead

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    Sterling Sharpe and LeRoy Butler should both be in the HOF.

    Personally, I prefer judging players at their peak rather than rewarding above average stat padders who play for a long time (I would also argue Terrell Davis should be inducted).

    -Sharpe was a 3 Time 1st Team All Pro and 5 Time Pro Bowl player in 7 years.
    -Butler was quite possibly the Best Safety of his Generation and was a FOUR TIME 1st Team All Pro
     
  4. OldSchoolFan

    OldSchoolFan Cheesehead

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    ...and that's all I got to say about that.
     
  5. Helmets

    Helmets Cheesehead

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    Beating a dead horse...
     
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  6. Future

    Future He did WHAT?

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    Which "above average stat padders" are in the hall of fame?
     
  7. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    The media that covered Kramer turned him down for induction 15 times. Guess you could look at that a couple ways
     
  8. TeamTundra

    TeamTundra Cheesehead

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    Art Monk comes to mind. He played 14 seasons but only made the Pro Bowl in two of those seasons. Overall a very good player, but not a dominant player.
     
  9. okcpackerfan

    okcpackerfan Cheesehead

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    sterling sharpe? seriously? I agree he was tremendous but his career was cut too short. You can't put someone in the hall of fame for that. Hell Tim Brown and Cris Carter aren't even in the Hall of Fame. I agree with Leroy Butler though.
     
  10. okcpackerfan

    okcpackerfan Cheesehead

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    making the pro bowl doesn't equate to being a dominant player.
     
  11. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    As far as the Hall of Fame, all numbers are not created equal. What got Lynn Swan in wont get Rod Smith in. What got Gale Sayers in wont get Terrell Davis in.

    Sterling was the better player in the family, even shannon will tell you that.

    Deion told the Packers not to draft him.
     
  12. okcpackerfan

    okcpackerfan Cheesehead

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    so much win in this post.

    The hall of fame has shifted mostly towards numbers nowadays though. However, what got lynn swan in the hall might be the very same thing that gets big ben in the hall of fame, championships.
     
  13. Future

    Future He did WHAT?

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    I'll give you Art Monk. Still, only one example out of 267.
     
  14. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Ed sabol in an NFL network special mentioned the coach he idolized was Lombardi. He was exactly who you thought he was. Lombardi refused to let them film, finally letting up when Ed said he would make him the John Wayne of football.
     
  15. Jasonfan

    Jasonfan Cheesehead

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    (Off the top of my head and just looking at recent players people talk about rther than going through decades worth of inductees) There are many stat padders who either are in or are expected to be in:

    -Curtis Martin-Stat Padder
    -Jerome Bettis-Stat Padder
    -Art Monk-Stat Padder
    -Chris Carter-Stat Padder

    (For example, Sterling Sharpe in 7 Years made made more 1st Team All Pro than Carter did in 16 Years)
     
  16. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    Gale Sayers made it in after a 6 year career in which he missed part of his fourth and sixth. If he played 20 years later, his stats and lack of longevity do not get him to Canton. How many RB's now tear up the league for 3-5 years and will never get there? Based on this it appears longevity is a recent addition to the HOF entrance requirement.
     
  17. Future

    Future He did WHAT?

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    This whole idea of "stat-padders" is basically saying that the guy was at least pretty good for a very long time. Martin, Carter and Bettis are HOFs. Part of what made them great was their durability. Durability is a big part of what makes Manning and Favre great. A WR who puts up five straight 1,000 yard seasons is just as good, if not better than a guy who puts up 1300, then 600, then 1100 and so forth. Javon Walker had the best year for a Packer WR in the past decade, does that make him better than Donald Driver?
     
  18. TeamTundra

    TeamTundra Cheesehead

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    Another player that I would consider a good, but not necessarily dominant player is Fred Dean who is also in the HOF.

    I could go on but I think you get the idea. Personally I would rather see a dominant player in the HOF like Sterling or Terrell Davis even though their careers were cut short.
     
  19. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Sterling Sharpe was much, much more talented than both of them. He was, along with Rice, THE dominant WR when he played. Truth, career too short, but he dominated.

    What keeps him and other guys like him out of the hall is the stupid notion of "can you tell football's history without them?".

    The Hall of Fame is more about the press and public notion than it is about football.
     
  20. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Can you tell footballs history without mentioning Vick? No. Will he go to the hall of fame? 80% chance he doesn't. (he could rattle off 2 titles and change the discussion I guess)

    Sometimes the voters need to realize it's only the story they want to tell that gets told. Bill Parcells won't be a 1st ballot, he wasn't before, which seems crazy to me.
     
  21. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    From Peter Kings MMQB - Want to see Jerry Kramer get one of the Seniors nods? That's the tenor of what I read and hear on Twitter. There are nine Seniors Committee members, and five of them meet every year in late August in Canton to determine who will get the two nominations. The best advice I can give those with the passion for Kramer is to write passionately to the Hall about his candidacy. Your voices will be heard.
     
  22. lambeaulambo

    lambeaulambo Cheesehead

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    Butler, Darren Sharper, Eugene Robinson and Kramer.
     
  23. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    How come no one ever lobbies that hard for Dave Robinson?
     
  24. Jasonfan

    Jasonfan Cheesehead

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    Yes Javon Walker was better than Donald Driver. His peak value was far better than Driver's.

    To me, the question when it comes to the HOF to determine if someone should make it is:

    "If my Life Depended on the Outcome of 1 Game and I am choosing my team, would this player be deserving of a spot on my team?"

    Over the Last 15 or so years, I would take an in his Prime Priest Holmes or Terrell Davis any day over Bettis or Martin and it is not even close.

    In sports, where the goal is to win a championship a Transcendent Talent that is short lived gives a team a better chance at winning than does a long term slightly above average player.
     
  25. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    peak value? Wow.

    Walker had 1 great season, 1 good season, 1 promising season, and nothing else. 1 season with double digit TDs, and 2 seasons with 1000 yards. 1 season with 80+ catches, 2 with 50+ catches. And has never been the #1 season on a team.

    So, that peak value never materialized if not for 1 season.

    Javon Walker NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

    The other posted 6 consecutive 1000 yard seasons, in a (so far) 12 year career where for the most of the time he was the team's #1 receiver. 4 seasons with 80+ catches, 9 seasons with 50+ catches.

    Donald Driver NFL & AFL Football Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com

    And not only production, Walker was a louzy route runner with average hands, injury prone and a diva.

    Walker had more athletic skills than Driver, no doubt, and had one season where he was better than Driver.

    But one season does not a career make. Javon Walker never came close to the kind of wide receiver and football player Donald Driver is.

    And the short term theory is so, so wrong. The Packers are built for the future. So are the Steelers.

    Teams that tried to win now? 2010 Jets, 2009 Vikings, 2007 Patriots, and every year the Redskins show that this kind of formula is flawed. Heck, just take a look at the so-called "free agency winners" every year, and none of them ends up winning the championship.

    You'd have to go back to the 1996 Packers to really find a team that spent big in FA with veterans in the same year they won a championship.

    The thing with football is, it's not fantasy. It's not "who can play the brightest at a moment".

    Football is a game of endurance. If you can't be consistant, you don't play in this league.

    Ryan Leaf and Jeff George had more "talent" than Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Joe Montana...
     
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