Packer Depth Chart

[Pack93z]

Okay what I did it put together a depth chart of where the Packers stand right now and tried to realistically grade the talent at each position. First things first, the grades need to be tested by members here. My gut feel for each at their position. I only went two deep at each position, anywho.. what I tried to do is create a look of where depth needs to be added.. As of today.

Starters (grade) Primary Backup
LT Chad Clifton (A) Josh Bourke (I)
LG Daryn Colledge (B-) Tony Moll (C+)
C Scott Wells (B) Tony Palmer (C-)
RG Jason Spitz (B-) Tony Moll (C+)
RT Mark Tauscher (A) Kevin Barry (C )
TE Bubba Franks (C+) Donald Lee (C-)
WR Donald Driver (A) Robert Ferguson (C-)
WR Greg Jennings (B-) Ruvell Martin (C-)
RB Vernand Morency (C+) Noah Herron (C )
FB Brandon Miree (B-)
QB Brett Favre (A-) Aaron Rodgers (C )


LE Aaron Kampman (A) Michael Montgomery (C )
DT Corey Williams (B) Johnny Jolly (C-)
NT Ryan Pickett (B+) Colin Cole (B)
RE Cullen Jenkins (B) Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (B)
SAM Brady Poppinga (C+) Tracy White (C )
WIL A.J. Hawk (A) Abdul Hodge (C )
MLB Nick Barnett (A-) Marcus Randall (D)
LCB Charles Woodson (B+) Frank Walker (C+)
FS Marquand Manuel (C-) Marviel Underwood (C )
SS Nick Collins (C ) Tyrone Culver (C-)
RCB Al Harris (A-) Will Blackmon (I)

Things that stand out to me are RB and Safety. IMO opinion those are the two areas of greatest front line concern. Then depth at OT and LB concerns me. (OLB may change if Taylor resigns). I gave Blackmon and Bourke and Incomplete because we really haven't seen what they can do. Plus we have Dendy lurking at CB which is a toss up with Blackmon.

Hammer away guys, grades and areas of concern.

 

[OregonPackFan]

How can you give Woodson a B+, he was one of the best CBs last season,

Chad Clifton was horrible, and he gets an A

Ryan Pickett gets a B+, he was one of the best DTs in the league last season.

 

[Pack93z]

Yep this will be a good old fashion thread talking about football...

Clifton wasn't horrible, and Woodson struggled for the first half of the year. Pickett, I probably under graded him... like I said... hammer away. You grade them.

I am the anti Arrow... I AIN'T RIGHT

 

[porky88]

I would give Morency a C-. While he did show promise at times last year he isn't really getting me excited about our running game.

Hawk as an A is asking for a lot. Maybe an A- but he has the potential to be an A.

I think Harris and Woodson should both be A's. I believe we have one of the three best CB tandems in the NFL and maybe the best in the NFC.

Tauscher is an A- but not an A in my opinion. I would drop Clifton to a B. I think he struggled a lot last year.

Ferguson would get a D in my opinion. He has declined ever since he took that hit from Darius.

I would give Jenkins a B-. He had a great four game run to end the year but not much prior.

Colin Cole is a C+ in my opinion. He's not on level with Corey Williams.

Marquand Manuel is a D+ in my opinion. He was to much of a liability.

KGB is a C in my opinion. He's an average player at best now.

I would put Poppinga at a B-. Some people really don't like him but he arguably improved more than any Packer last year on a daily basis.

Nick Collins I would put at a B- as well. Pretty much players who show promise I'd put at a B-. Much like you did with Jennings and our rookie offensive lineman.

Bubba Franks would get a C-. His blocking was solid but no where to be seen in the red zone.

Montgomery is a D+. I had high hopes for him last year but I think he's on his way out unless we keep him over KGB which I fine unlikely.

Jolly didn't see much playing time last year so I'd give him a D as well. However I really think he can jump to like a B- this year. The only reason why he slipped in the Draft was due to injuries. If he was healthy he may of gone in the first 4 rounds.

I'd bump Moll to a B- and drop Miree to a C.

Marviel Underwood would get an I for incomplete. He was out all of last year and it's hard to judge him. Same with Koren Robinson.

Lol wow sorry I just kept typing. I agree with the rest though. Nice Job I really liked the concept.

 

[Pack93z]

Starters (grade) Primary Backup
LT Chad Clifton (B) Josh Bourke (I)
LG Daryn Colledge (B-) Tony Moll (B-)
C Scott Wells (B) Tony Palmer (C-)
RG Jason Spitz (B-) Tony Moll (B-)
RT Mark Tauscher (A-) Kevin Barry (C )
TE Bubba Franks (C-) Donald Lee (C-)
WR Donald Driver (A) Robert Ferguson (D)
WR Greg Jennings (B-) Ruvell Martin (C-)
RB Vernand Morency (C-) Noah Herron (D )
FB Brandon Miree (C)
QB Brett Favre (A-) Aaron Rodgers (C )


LE Aaron Kampman (A) Michael Montgomery (D+)
DT Corey Williams (B) Johnny Jolly (D)
NT Ryan Pickett (B+) Colin Cole (C+)
RE Cullen Jenkins (B-) Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (C+)
SAM Brady Poppinga (C+) Tracy White (C )
WIL A.J. Hawk (A-) Marcus Randall (D)
MLB Nick Barnett (A-) Abdul Hodge (C )
LCB Charles Woodson (A) Frank Walker (C+)
FS Marquand Manuel (D+) Marviel Underwood (I)
SS Nick Collins (B-) Tyrone Culver (C-)
RCB Al Harris (A) Will Blackmon (I)

Okay so there are some adjusted grades... Still the major two or now three frontline starting positions that are in dire need. And depth in the same spots. I think Bubba is better than graded above, past years he was always a red zone threat and I think injuries played a large part of the issue last year.

Can this be so, we look very weak in terms of depth?

 

[PackOne]

I love Jenkins too. But, at least for now I would only give him a C+ or around a 77 on Madden.

Clifton maybe is more on the A- side. I don't think we've seen him at 100% in awhile though.

Woodson - solid B+ not an A man.

Otherwise - I think it's a pretty fair grade. I'd like to see another B+ or better at WR and RB - if that were to happen I'd be quite pleased on paper.

 

[Zombieslayer]

All right. Am I missing something here? How could 8 INTs with one returned for a TD be less than an A-? When I saw TD passes against us, it was against our Safeties, not our CBs. Our CBs were both A- or better. Harris and Woodson both got snubbed for the Pro Bowl. Sure Woodson started slow. But the last 8 games were a solid A.

Edit: Wanted to add, Manuel getting a D+ is generous. I'd give him a D, and I'm a nice guy.

 

[porky88]

Woodson's problem is injuries. He's not very durable. However when healthy I have no doubt in my mind that he is a Pro Bowl Caliber Cornerback. Both him and Harris. He really proved to me this year that he can get the job done.

 

[Pack93z]

Bingo on Woodson, it isn't that he can't play or dominate, it is can he stay healthy, that is why I had him at a B+ for durability.

 

[warhawk]

I have been saying for two years now how WEAK we had gotten in the depth catagory.

If you are not real happy with these grades just pull up the '05 roster. It was sick.

A. Carroll -F Backup - not known
M. Roman-D Backup - not known
N. Diggs-C Backup - not known

We didn't even have a "C" backup on the offensive line. Not a guard or a tackle. Wells wasn't even ready back then.

These grades, especially on defense, are so far improved since then it's ridiculous. Yes. We have a ways to go but comparing '05 to now we have come a long, long, ways.

We can't expect a whole lot above "C's" in the backup catagories. Free Agency would gobble anybody that good up.

It takes awhile when your virtually starting from scratch. I don't recall a single backup in '05 that really deserved to be in the NFL. I think it was Mr. Wolf that first made that observation public.

 

[Pack93z]

Cause I like to debate.. But I get your point and I agree that we didn't have much depth up and down the roster. After putting on paper, made me realize how many holes we have in this roster yet.

2005 Backups -
OL
Ruegamer, Grey (at least a C)- Backup at all three positions, started games for NY last year.
Barry, Kevin ( C in running game, D in Passing)- was helping path the way for #1 running attack in 2004.

 

[flapackfan]

Starters (grade) Primary Backup
LT Chad Clifton (A) Josh Bourke (I)
LG Daryn Colledge (B-) Tony Moll (C+)
C Scott Wells (B) Tony Palmer (C-)
RG Jason Spitz (B-) Tony Moll (C+)
RT Mark Tauscher (A) Kevin Barry (C )
TE Bubba Franks (C+) Donald Lee (C-)
WR Donald Driver (A) Robert Ferguson (C-)
WR Greg Jennings (B-) Ruvell Martin (C-)
RB Vernand Morency (C+) Noah Herron (C )
FB Brandon Miree (B-)
QB Brett Favre (A-) Aaron Rodgers (C )


LE Aaron Kampman (A) Michael Montgomery (C )
DT Corey Williams (B) Johnny Jolly (C-)
NT Ryan Pickett (B+) Colin Cole (B)
RE Cullen Jenkins (B) Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila (B)
SAM Brady Poppinga (C+) Tracy White (C )
WIL A.J. Hawk (A) Abdul Hodge (C )
MLB Nick Barnett (A-) Marcus Randall (D)
LCB Charles Woodson (B+) Frank Walker (C+)
FS Marquand Manuel (C-) Marviel Underwood (C )
SS Nick Collins (C ) Tyrone Culver (C-)
RCB Al Harris (A-) Will Blackmon (I)

Lol, you think A.J. Hawk played better than Nick Barnett? Funny

Nobody on our offensive line got worse than a B-, hillarious. Come on, we had to max protect all year long they were so bad. Good joke though

Bubba Franks C+ ??? Theres an F- if ive ever seen one

Jennings B-, c'mon

KGB gets benched and still gets a B

C'mon, April fools day was a couple weeks ago
Can you say "Homer"

:cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader: :cheerleader:

 

[Pack93z]

Okay, maybe I did a poor job of explaining what I was trying to do, this is more over a value chart to see where players rank in terms of value to the team. IE - Woodson, because injury prone got knocked down because of that, not how he played last year. Example, KGB is proven player, albeit not strong against the run, and gives us a sense of security and depth. Thus a B.

Franks isn't a big time threat to stretch the field, but very solid blocking. Is TE an imediate area of need compared to others. He gives us value there, even though it might be overpaid value.

A B- for Jenkins is based on the potential we seen late last year, same along the 2nd year guards.

 

[Pack93z]

In other words, we say these young guys should step up another level and prove that the time invested in them last year be value added. So with that said, trying to figure in growth, injuries, risk involved with the players.

Trying something different than normal.

 

[warhawk]

We have to be realistic about the quality of depth as we all saw how teams go after FA's whether they are starters, backups, whatever. A "B" backup would bring $3-5 mil in todays world.

It's more obvious today than ever that drafting guys who will be under contract for the least amount they will be getting for a few years is the way to get quality backups.

You "capture" them until they get so good they beat out the starter or move on in fA.

Our problem was we needed so many STARTERS we had to rob the rookie pool to get where we are. Especially in '05 when we had no money to compete in the FA market.

All of this is why having "luck" on your side as far as the injury bug is so important in todays NFL. Any team can cover certain positions because they happen to have depth there but if the list grows teams get weak pretty fast.

We DO have some guys that can come in and play and thats encouraging.

 

[Pack93z]

We have to be realistic about the quality of depth as we all saw how teams go after FA's whether they are starters, backups, whatever. A "B" backup would bring $3-5 mil in todays world.

It's more obvious today than ever that drafting guys who will be under contract for the least amount they will be getting for a few years is the way to get quality backups.

You "capture" them until they get so good they beat out the starter or move on in fA.

Our problem was we needed so many STARTERS we had to rob the rookie pool to get where we are. Especially in '05 when we had no money to compete in the FA market.

All of this is why having "luck" on your side as far as the injury bug is so important in todays NFL. Any team can cover certain positions because they happen to have depth there but if the list grows teams get weak pretty fast.

We DO have some guys that can come in and play and thats encouraging.

Agreed, and that is part of my frustration this offseason. We have this habit, even though we have cap room to rely on the rookies to fill gaps in the the starting line-up. We are doing it at RB and possibly FB this year. So if it was a problem to rob the rookie pool for starters 2 years ago, what has changed today?

 

[retiredgrampa]

To me, it's obvious that our OL MUST improve or we're doomed to 7-9 at a minimum. We cannot be forced to give them help on every play. That said, with our sad condition at TE, how much help would they be in the passing game? Slow and slippery fingered are not assets. Any team that counts Bubba as #1 is in a world of hurt. It's past time to write him off, draft a young guy and hope for the best. Unfortunately TE is slim pickings this year.

 

[warhawk]

We have to be realistic about the quality of depth as we all saw how teams go after FA's whether they are starters, backups, whatever. A "B" backup would bring $3-5 mil in todays world.

It's more obvious today than ever that drafting guys who will be under contract for the least amount they will be getting for a few years is the way to get quality backups.

You "capture" them until they get so good they beat out the starter or move on in fA.

Our problem was we needed so many STARTERS we had to rob the rookie pool to get where we are. Especially in '05 when we had no money to compete in the FA market.

All of this is why having "luck" on your side as far as the injury bug is so important in todays NFL. Any team can cover certain positions because they happen to have depth there but if the list grows teams get weak pretty fast.

We DO have some guys that can come in and play and thats encouraging.

Agreed, and that is part of my frustration this offseason. We have this habit, even though we have cap room to rely on the rookies to fill gaps in the the starting line-up. We are doing it at RB and possibly FB this year. So if it was a problem to rob the rookie pool for starters 2 years ago, what has changed today?

Nothing that I see. Especially at RB and FB. Those are two positions where rookies can step in and contribute. Much less risky than when we had rookies and first year players in the middle of the "0" line.

This is why I am a believer of taking a talented guy like Hall first and a RB second or third. The CB position is REALLY HARD for a rookie to do well at. RB is a different story.

They have proven they can step in as rookies and contribute.

The difference is last year we relied on something like seven rookie starters at times and this year it won't be more than a couple. Few teams end up not starting a couple of rookies.

Seven, however, is pretty radical.

I posted a thread about the pivotal '06 season all based on getting to 8-8 with an unbelievably young offensive line and rookies in many spots. That could have ended up a serious train wreck and Favre in the hospital.

We're much more out in the clear at this point.

 

[Pack93z]

I wish I had the same comfort feeling about our backfield situation. Can we have an effective running game without veterans, probably to a maybe. I will hedge and say, okay, we can get by with it.

What happens in blitz pick-ups? Or hot reads, to save Brett body by dropping out into the flat to give him a place to go. Selling a screen?

No matter whom we draft, we have no one, that has experience of more than a couple of games to insert in clutch situations. To me, it is a pattern.

Do most teams start a rookie or two, absolutely, but normally they have something that we seem to lack currently. Experience.

 

[porky88]

Bingo on Woodson, it isn't that he can't play or dominate, it is can he stay healthy, that is why I had him at a B+ for durability.

I think if your going to give grades it has to be what he does on the field. You should not expect injury when it can happen to anyone at anytime. Woodson proved last year he is one of the toughest players on the team not named Brett Favre.

 

[pyledriver80]

I wish I had the same comfort feeling about our backfield situation. Can we have an effective running game without veterans, probably to a maybe. I will hedge and say, okay, we can get by with it.

What happens in blitz pick-ups? Or hot reads, to save Brett body by dropping out into the flat to give him a place to go. Selling a screen?

No matter whom we draft, we have no one, that has experience of more than a couple of games to insert in clutch situations. To me, it is a pattern.

Do most teams start a rookie or two, absolutely, but normally they have something that we seem to lack currently. Experience.

I agree 100%. The knock on guys like Lynch is they don't provide much support in terms of blitz pick-up. With our young O-Line this could be a problem. We can't afford to have so many extra guys blocking. You can only mask it for so long before you have to fix it.

I also don't buy thats its EASY to insert any RB in the backfield. For every Maurice Jones Drew there is a Curtis Enis. Being a RB in this league is more than running the ball. You don't get refined backs in thier first year.

I guess we will see how it works out but like you Pack93z, I see a pattern developing. A veteran can give you so much more just by being experienced. We lack that currently

 

[wpr]

It is interesting to see your breakdown.
I am not going to get into a player by player discussion but I think your values overall may be just a bit high.
The offense is coming out with an average between a "B" and a "B-". and the defense has an average between a "B+" and a "B".
When we consider that the team finished 8-8 last year and the Bears probably took the last game off. (at least mentally), these ratings seem just a tad high.
Maybe Brett is only a "B+" of a "B" player these days. Clifton was sure a disappointment many times last year. I think every single DB missed an assignment and was burnt for a huge play early in the year. They started to do a little bit better as the season wore on.

The greatest needs for the team seems to be RB and S.
They certainly could use help at TE and FB.
Another quality player in the defensive backfield and the WR positions would sure help not to mention finding the replacements for the two OT positions as well.

When TT took over and started slashing his way thru the roster I said that it was going to take 3 years to rebuild this team. This is his 3 year and he seems to be over half way but I think it will take a couple more years for these young players to develop a bit more before you see them back in the playoffs and making any kind of a run for the Super Bowl.

 

[cheesey]

I'm real interested to see what Underwood can do this year. I think he might just take over the #1 position.

 

[pyledriver80]

I'm real interested to see what Underwood can do this year. I think he might just take over the #1 position.

Could he be worse than Manuel?

 

[cheesey]

I'm real interested to see what Underwood can do this year. I think he might just take over the #1 position.

Could he be worse than Manuel?

Seriously? No, i don't think he could be!!! :rotflmao:
I liked what i saw of him before he got hurt. Hopefully he will shine this year (and allow us to forget about Manuel!)