official Jimmy Graham signed

[Deleted member 6794]

Well. if you look at the cap space and the list of FAs, it doesn't look very good. I posted both somewhere up the line here.

With the cap expected to increase once again Over the Cap estimates the Packers will have roughly $50 million of space available in 2019. I understand that will change because of this year's rookie class and possibly veterans being added to the roster before the start of this season.

Matthews, Cobb, Wilkerson and Clinton-Dix present the only veterans who will ask for significant money. In my opinion that leaves Gutekunst with enough wiggle room to make a splash.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If you cut Matthews who do you replace him with?

Same with Bulaga?

It might be possible to replace Bulaga with a rookie tackle. There's no reason to believe Gutekunst would be able to adequately replace Matthews though.

 

[Mondio]

I think Edge gets addressed in draft, too expensive with not enough pay back the other way. Matthews is staying unless he shows up at 215lbs and can't rush a passer. Bulaga hasn't been on the field and effective in 2 years, keep him or not. I plan on replacing him anyway, since they've had to find ways to recently anyway and he was on the roster.

 

[GleefulGary]

It might be possible to replace Bulaga with a rookie tackle. There's no reason to believe Gutekunst would be able to adequately replace Matthews though.

Pretty much what I think.

I don't think you can reasonably cut Bulaga until after the draft, but I don't know how that would effect us money wise. No way we can replace Matthews this year.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If you cut Matthews who do you replace him with?

Same with Bulaga?

First, you should have noticed that I said Bulaga depending on the medicals. I am not privy to those. His $4+ mil dead cap is cheap for a RT. If the medicals are bad, what choice do you have?

Spriggs showed improvment toward the end of the season, so he might be the guy. I'm not sure having McCray/Spriggs together is all that auspicious, though. Nowhere is a player's performance as dependent on the guy next to him than on the O-Line.

You'll also note that I said Matthews should be gone if the plan is go heavy with 4-3 hybrid sets. In that case, what choice would you have? Matthews would be an expensive player without a position.

The overall plan to work toward 2019 went out the window with the Wilkinson/Graham signings. That's "win now" stuff.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I think Edge gets addressed in draft, too expensive with not enough pay back the other way.

Well, there's not a whole lot of options at this juncture. But in a "win now" approach, getting a difference maker at edge in his rookie year is a long shot. The Packers are not exactly in a position to draft an immediate 3 down edge. Those are top 5 picks. Most first round edges not named Miller or Mack are rotational in the rookie year...release the hound on obvious passing downs.

I would say Perry and Matthews are not exactly chopped liver, though as stated previously Matthews is a man without a position in a 4-3 or 4-3 hybrid. If 4-3 is the predominant D, I don't know why Matthews is still around. Your CB situation, no matter how you slice it, is chopped liver. So is your is your #2 wideout. The right side of your O-Line is questionabe.

Even if you draft an edge at #14, what about those other positions?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't think you can reasonably cut Bulaga until after the draft, but I don't know how that would effect us money wise.

The Packers would save $4.7 million of cap space by cutting Bulaga now. He's due to earn a $250K workout bonus before the start of the season which would reduce the savings a bit. If the team decides to release him after June 1 they could gain another $1.6 million for this season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Most first round edges not named Miller or Mack are rotational in the rookie year...release the hound on obvious passing downs.

Gutekunst needs to hit on an edge rusher in the first round like Thompson did with Matthews back in 2009.

 

[HardRightEdge]

With the cap expected to increase once again Over the Cap estimates the Packers will have roughly $50 million of space available in 2019. I understand that will change because of this year's rookie class and possibly veterans being added to the roster before the start of this season.

Matthews, Cobb, Wilkerson and Clinton-Dix present the only veterans who will ask for significant money. In my opinion that leaves Gutekunst with enough wiggle room to make a splash.

The 2019 number at overthecap covers only 29 players under contract for next year. Just getting to 53 with 24 minimum salary rookies (LOL) is $12 million lopped off that number. I think you can figure on menaingfully more than that amount unless you expect 15 UDFAs on the roster.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Gutekunst needs to hit on an edge rusher in the first round like Thompson did with Matthews back in 2009.

When you have to go back 10 years for a 3-down correlary it's a dubious proposition, no? I don't know what the defensive scheme is going to look like other than comments about mix-and-match. I don't know if Matthews even has a position in which case you would be right...edge in the first round. Then he's gotta find a couple of corners, a wideout and address the right side of the O-Line off the bench or in the draft. He needs to have one of the SS play to Burnett's level which is a pretty high bar.

There are more holes in the **** than Gutekunst has fingers. That is not a problem of his creation, but it is a problem, and pushing it off a year doesn't help matters.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The 2019 number at overthecap covers only 29 players under contract for next year. Just getting to 53 with 24 minimum salary rookies (LOL) is $12 million lopped off that number. I think you can figure on menaingfully more than that amount unless you expect 15 UDFAs on the roster.

True, but you have to consider the possibility of the Packers rolling over some unused cap space from this season as well offsetting part of that money as well.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

When you have to go back 10 years for a 3-down correlary it's a dubious proposition, no? I don't know what the defensive scheme is going to look like other than comments about mix-and-match. I don't know if Matthews even has a position in which case you would be right...edge in the first round. Then he's gotta find a couple of corners, a wideout and address the right side of the O-Line off the bench or in the draft. He needs to have one of the SS play to Burnett's level which is a pretty high bar.

There are more holes in the **** than Gutekunst has fingers. That is not a problem of his creation, but it is a problem, and pushing it off a year doesn't help matters.

I definitely agree that the Packers roster currently has too many holes to film with the cap space available. Gutekunst was presented with a tough task of rebuilding the team into a contender once again. I will wait at least until after the draft to evaluate if he has achieved that goal though.

 

[HardRightEdge]

True, but you have to consider the possibility of the Packers rolling over some unused cap space from this season as well offsetting part of that money as well.

There isn't all that much to roll over and it has a bad habit of evaporating as the season goes on. The cap started at about $20 mil last year and ended at $9 mil, a chunk of that Shield's dead cap. The year before it was something like $15 mil to $10 mil. It's why I advocate keeping at least $4 mil in reserve for PUP/IR replacements.

Given they were willing to pay a CB $14 mil per year, I don't think they're done spending anyway. I just hope it's one second contract guy, if there are any left worth a d*mn , as some indication of an outlook past one year.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I definitely agree that the Packers roster currently has too many holes to film with the cap space available. Gutekunst was presented with a tough task of rebuilding the team into a contender once again. I will wait at least until after the draft to evaluate if he has achieved that goal though.

Rebuilding is the operative term. I can't say I'll wait until "after the draft", though that won't stop me from then taking the time to look at those players' college tape to see what's what.

You won't have an inkling of how good the draft is until mid-season. Or is it 3 years down the line as some Thompson applogists liked to say?

 

[AKCheese]

Wait..... we have HOLES to fill? I thought Ted Draft and Develope Thompson had us primed to be a top contender as far as the eye can see. Hmmmm what happened? Actually if Arod stays healthy I think we’ll be in the best shape since the NFCCG meltdown year. You cannot expect to have elite players at every position unless you get lucky with a couple consecutive draft classes (not our strong suite), I think grabbing JG and committing to getting younger and faster at WR casts the die.... we’re hoping to have an elite offense and adequate D. Get in the tourney and hope to get hot...It’s doable.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There isn't all that much to roll over and it has a bad habit of evaporating as the season goes on. The cap started at about $20 mil last year and ended at $9 mil, a chunk of that Shield's dead ca[. The year before it was something like $15 mil to $10 mil.

Given they were willing to pay a CB $14 mil per year, I don't think they're done spending anyway. I just hope it's one second contract guy, if there are any left worth a d*mn , as some indication of an outlook past one year.

While I agree with your take I believe the roll over could offset the additional cap hit over $12 million for players 30-53 you previously referred to as the Packers finished last season with only 24 players counting more than a $1 million towards the cap.

 

[Dantés]

Well. if you look at the cap space and the list of FAs, it doesn't look very good. I posted both somewhere up the line here.

What about the list of FA's?

If Clinton-Dix rebounds under Pettine, I see him as a guy they'd definitely want to keep but I'm not seeing any other "must sign" guys on that list.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You cannot expect to have elite players at every position unless you get lucky with a couple consecutive draft classes (not our strong suite), I think grabbing JG and committing to getting younger and faster at WR casts the die....

You're right that there's no way to have elite players at every position but it's definitely possible to even a roster with more overall talent than the Packers current one.

 

[HardRightEdge]

What about the list of FA's?

If Clinton-Dix rebounds under Pettine, I see him as a guy they'd definitely want to keep but I'm not seeing any other "must sign" guys on that list.

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot say this team can win with Cobb, Matthews, Bulaga, Wilkinson in 2018 and then say their departure does not create big holes. If you don't think you can win with them, then their $30 mil cap space spend this year should have gone toward the future. Back out the Graham deal and it would be $50 mil to put toward the future. Now you're projecting a big year for Clinton-Dix which brings with it a big contract next year where cap will be limited even with those first 4 guys gone?

There are a few moderate ticket guys on that list you might want to keep. Montgomery, Ryan, Ripkowski...not a big bite but a some nonetheless over and above some minimum salary rookie, kinda like Richard Rodgers this year, believe it or not, a guy one of the Packer mindtrust said they'd like to sign back if they can, though I can't recall who said it.

 

[Dantés]

You cannot have it both ways. You cannot say this team can win with Cobb, Matthews, Bulaga, Wilkinson in 2018 and then say their departure does not create big holes. If you don't think you can win with them, then their $30 mil cap space spend this year should have gone toward the future. Back out the Graham deal and it would be $50 mil to put toward the future. Now you're projecting a big year for Clinton-Dix which brings with it a big contract next year where cap will be limited even with those first 4 guys gone?

There are a few moderate ticket guys on that list you might want to keep. Montgomery, Ryan, Ripkowski...not a big bite but a some nonetheless over and above some minimum salary rookie, kinda like Richard Rodgers this year, believe it or not, a guy one of the Packer mindtrust said they'd like to sign back if they can, though I can't recall who said it.

I can't say that those veterans (Matthews, Cobb, Bulaga) can contribute to a good season while also saying that they probably won't be extended again because of their age? That's weird, because I feel like I am currently saying that.

 

[swhitset]

I can't say that those veterans (Matthews, Cobb, Bulaga) can contribute to a good season while also saying that they probably won't be extended again because of their age? That's weird, because I feel like I am currently saying that.

You can say it.... but I think the point is that they will need to be replaced next year and that if you consider them to be valuable right now... replacing them will significantly cut into next year's cap.

 

[Dantés]

You can say it.... but I think the point is that they will need to be replaced next year and that if you consider them to be valuable right now... replacing them will significantly cut into next year's cap.

The point of recent drafts and this upcoming one is to mitigate the loss of veterans. It's never perfect, which is why FA is used to supplement. But, for example, they drafted Biegel and will most certainly draft another edge this year so that when Matthews walks they won't need to spend anything like his salary to replace him. But it's silly to say that because Cobb and Matthews and Bulaga have expiring deals over the next two seasons, they'll have to spend all that cap space on replacements. That's just not true.

 

[swhitset]

The point of recent drafts and this upcoming one is to mitigate the loss of veterans. It's never perfect, which is why FA is used to supplement. But, for example, they drafted Biegel and will most certainly draft another edge this year so that when Matthews walks they won't need to spend anything like his salary to replace him. But it's silly to say that because Cobb and Matthews and Bulaga have expiring deals over the next two seasons, they'll have to spend all that cap space on replacements. That's just not true.

you would hope not.... but I don't see their replacements on the current roster.... I liked Biegel at WI... but I don't see him as an adequate replacement to Mathews... Hope I'm wrong.

 

[Dantés]

you would hope not.... but I don't see their replacements on the current roster.... I liked Biegel at WI... but I don't see him as an adequate replacement to Mathews... Hope I'm wrong.

If they have blown it or go on to blow it with these guys on rookie contracts, that becomes an issue. I really liked Biegel in college and I think he flashed a bit as a rookie. He didn't see nearly enough time to say one way or the other. I think he has a real shot at being in a rotation with Perry and another player, hopefully to be drafted this year. This issue is one of the reasons why Harold Landry is an attractive option at #19.

In general, there is way too much hand-wringing and feigned mastery of the Packers cap. They're one of the best in the league at managing it, they aren't in trouble according to basically any knowledgeable source, and the internet is full of fans who seem to think they understand the workings of cap management better than they really do.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think Edge gets addressed in draft, too expensive with not enough pay back the other way. Matthews is staying unless he shows up at 215lbs and can't rush a passer. Bulaga hasn't been on the field and effective in 2 years, keep him or not. I plan on replacing him anyway, since they've had to find ways to recently anyway and he was on the roster.

Was just going to say, "in a perfect draft and develop world" that is what you hope for, but swhtset chimed in already.

If you look at what the Packers have been attempting at CB, you see where a few failed picks and/or career ending injuries (Shields) set you back. Same could be said at a few other positions. WR seems to be a nice hit with Adams, but since then nothing and now we are looking at what happens when all those pics and UDFA's don't pan out.

While it's nice to hit on both edge and CB in the draft, since having to do so in Free Agency is very expensive, the Packers are running out of time to start hitting in the draft on either position and that need is already past gone at CB and very close at Edge.