O boy.. Real reason it's failing?

[PackAttack12]

In this past off-season before the new contract was signed, I would have been fine with trading him for two first round picks and other considerations from a bad team where at least the 2018 pick would have considerable value. That's not 20/20 highsight. I said as much at the time. That door has now closed for some time to come.

Yikes......

Care to explain that rationale?

 

[Do7]

I understand what you are saying and I agree about the lack of talent but you don't need superstars to win. The Bears are 8-3 and how many superstars do they have? 1 (Mack) What about the Patriots? 2 (Brady and Gronk) Now those 2 teams may have more players that are close than the Packers do but I would add Linsley and to the Packers list and maybe Martinez and Daniels and based on what I've seen this year maybe Aaron Jones as well. That's 9 players at least that are more than "good enough" Now I realize that 9 out of 22 starters is not great but I think where the lack of talent does the Packers in is in their depth. If the starters are not in for whatever reason the backups simply can't get it done.

The Bears also benefited from early draft picks in regards to a defensive front, and they have one of the best offensive play callers in the game right now. Plus they also benefit from a weak schedule b/c they finished last. They will not repeat this little Cinderella run next year Book it! Then again they might depending on Trubisky.

As for The Patriots look at their division. Nuff said. No seriously look at how pathetic that division is.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like a handful of you would like to see Rodgers go as well as McCarthy from what it sounds like. In any case we've seen how well McCarthy has been as a play caller, and there has been plenty of times where his play calling has costed us the freaking game. The most infamous was the 2014 NFC Championship game. Rodgers taking issue with his play calling should be no surprise, as well as him audibling out of some of them as he may see something on the field that he can exploit. Up until this year this hasn't been a problem. It's a problem because we're so used to Rodgers playing Superman, thus spoiling us. Now we see a ***** in his armor and some of you are ready to turn on him. Need we forget how inept this organization has been over the years at putting talent around him all because of a broken philosophy in draft and developed? It was good but the times have changed and we're one of the only teams that hasn't appeared to have adapted. The same can be said about play calling.

I remember in the past years before joining here I would see some of you guys talk about how Rodgers would butt heads about the playcalling. Including the gif one of you guy posted where you can literally see him mouth "terrible ****ing play/call to Mike.

McCarthy has had plenty of opportunities to earn Rodgers trust and respect but has blown it. Rodgers is far from blameless but the writing was on the wall for the longest, it's not that we're LOSING is why so much noise is being made. And why guys like Cowherd and Bayless are pouncing on Arodg.

 

[mradtke66]

I understand what you are saying and I agree about the lack of talent but you don't need superstars to win. The Bears are 8-3 and how many superstars do they have? 1 (Mack) What about the Patriots? 2 (Brady and Gronk) Now those 2 teams may have more players that are close than the Packers do but I would add Linsley and to the Packers list and maybe Martinez and Daniels and based on what I've seen this year maybe Aaron Jones as well. That's 9 players at least that are more than "good enough" Now I realize that 9 out of 22 starters is not great but I think where the lack of talent does the Packers in is in their depth. If the starters are not in for whatever reason the backups simply can't get it done.

The difference here is that the Bears defense is largely stacked top to bottom. We have serious holes at a few positions. I don't even mind our depth, if we had 2-3 good players that'd knock a couple players down into backup roles.

And the Patriots...they're curve wreckers

 

[Title Town USA]

Yikes......

Care to explain that rationale?

Insanity seems like the only explanation.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yikes......

Care to explain that rationale?

Sure. Best case let's say you had traded Rodgers to the Browns for their 2018 #1 and #4 picks. Under those terms I would not expect additional considerations. And then lets say you did what the Browns did and drafted Mayfield and Ward.

• Over the next 4 years including 2018, Mayfield's total cap cost is $32.7 mil compared to Rodgers $113.5 mil, about $20 mil in additional cap per year, $13 mil in 2018 and $19 mil in 2019 to start out.
• Or skip Mayfield and take one of the other QBs. Pick your favorite. The cost difference would be immaterial under the rookie salary scale.
• Either way, that savings can go toward impact FAs
• With Ward on board, either the Alexander or Jackson pick could have been used at another position
• In rebuilding mode, there would not be much point in holding on to Cobb and Matthews in 2018. That's another $21 mil in cap savings in addition to the $13 mil in the Mayfield savings that could have gone toward FAs in 2018.

And the cap savings is a gift that keeps on giving, year after year, for 4 years anyway.

Other scenarios can be drawn up with lower 2018/2019 picks, but that would require additional considerations from that team.

Risky? Sure. That QB could be a bust. Giving up on 2018? Why not. It wasn't a championship caliber roster to begin with, and that too is not 20/20 hindsight. It would be kind of exciting, though, with a lot of draft capital and cap to work with.

As it stands, you can slog along and hope Gutekunst can stack a couple more drafts. It is a moot point though, isn't it? Stacking drafts it is, and as we've seen in Thompson's later years that is not without its own risks.

So, New Orleans is getting it done now with Brees making big bucks. Well, consider they drafted the offensive and defensive rookies of the year last season with other adds through the draft. Stack they did after a number of crappy seasons.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Insanity seems like the only explanation.

That's an LOL disagree, by the way.

Of course that scenario could never happen because the vast majority of fans would be as up in arms as you would be. Rodgers, Nelson, Cobb, Matthews...all gone. There would be rioting in the streets of Green Bay, management burned in effigy in front of the atrium. It would make the Favre departure look like a tea party. OK, that's a bit of exageration. Strike "rioting" and replace it with "angry protests".

That would not necessarily make it wrong, however.

 

[Title Town USA]

I’m so thankful posters on this forum aren’t running the Packers...

 

[PackAttack12]

Sure. Best case let's say you had traded Rodgers to the Browns for their 2018 #1 and #4 picks. Under those terms I would not expect additional considerations. And then lets say you did what the Browns did and drafted Mayfield and Ward.

• Over the next 4 years including 2018, Mayfield's total cap cost is $32.7 mil compared to Rodgers $113.5 mil, about $20 mil in additional cap per year, $13 mil in 2018 and $19 mil in 2019 to start out.
• Or skip Mayfield and take one of the other QBs. Pick your favorite. The cost difference would be immaterial under the rookie salary scale.
• Either way, that savings can go toward impact FAs
• With Ward on board, either the Alexander or Jackson pick could have been used at another position
• In rebuilding mode, there would not be much point in holding on to Cobb and Matthews in 2018. That's another $21 mil in cap savings in addition to the $13 mil in the Mayfield savings that could have gone toward FAs in 2018.

And the cap savings is a gift that keeps on giving, year after year, for 4 years anyway.

Other scenarios can be drawn up with lower 2018/2019 picks, but that would require additional considerations from that team.

Risky? Sure. That QB could be a bust. Giving up on 2018? Why not. It wasn't a championship caliber roster to begin with, and that too is not 20/20 hindsight. It would be kind of exciting, though, with a lot of draft capital and cap to work with.

As it stands, you can slog along and hope Gutekunst can stack a couple more drafts. It is a moot point though, isn't it? Stacking drafts it is, and as we've seen in Thompson's later years that is not without its own risks.

So, New Orleans is getting it done now with Brees making big bucks. Well, consider they drafted the offensive and defensive rookies of the year last season with other adds through the draft. Stack they did after a number of crappy seasons.

Ask the Browns, Jets, Bills, Dolphins, 49ers, Jags, etc (just to name a few) how long they have been looking for a quarterback. Then ask yourself what all of those teams have in common: zero success.

Meanwhile, the Packers have made the playoffs every single year that Rodgers has played in week 16 or later since his first season as a starter even with multiple seasons of large cap hits.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out which scenario sounds insane, and which one sounds smart.

There is zero rationale to trading a 34 year old Aaron Rodgers.

 

[easyk83]

And over how many drafts were those guys? And King is still a??

We'll see but I suspect that Doms defensive coaching staff shares a fair amount of the blame. TTs offensive drafts sparse as they were were consistently landing talent. On defense it was just a black hole.

Heyward Hyde and now Randall have all gone on to have success elsewhere. Randall is on pace for 4 picks in his first year playing FS in the NFL.

 

[Zartan]

The next HC whoever that is needs to put Rodgers in check. Just like MM putting Favre in check.

 

[G0P4ckG0]

The next HC whoever that is needs to put Rodgers in check. Just like MM putting Favre in check.

Or Favre could become the next coach and let Aaron have fun out there. (I'm kidding but also serious)

 

[Cheese Headed Monster]

Problem is, if this is really what's going on, Rodgers isn't likely to respect the next head coach either. Unless he's a guy with really good credentials, or the kind of guy who simply isn't going to put up with any nonsense.

The first may not necessarily be out there, gotta hope for the latter. The non nonsense type.

 

[Cheese Headed Monster]

Sounds like the fans are slowly starting to lose respect for Aaron similarly to Aaron losing respect for MM. Interesting.

 

[XPack]

This sounds like MM may need to leave not because he is bad, but because Rodgers doesn't respect him. Im for a coach that keeps players in check with the objective being the betterment of the team. MM has no authority over the head guy, the QB. That is a problem. No matter how great your QB is.

Not really. We don't know if any new incoming coach will have AR's respect either. AR knows the scheme better than the new coach and may resent interference in his game, esp if new coach removes play calling from him. Somebody needs to have a chat with AR and MM to work out a compromise. Sure both are mature people and can work this out.

 

[Cheese Headed Monster]

Not really. We don't know if any new incoming coach will have AR's respect either. AR knows the scheme better than the new coach and may resent interference in his game, esp if new coach removes play calling from him. Somebody needs to have a chat with AR and MM to work out a compromise. Sure both are mature people and can work this out.

Your last sentence. Do you really believe that? Let's just say I would encourage you not to bet your money on that.

 

[XPack]

Your last sentence. Do you really believe that? Let's just say I would encourage you not to bet your money on that.

They are reputed to have a good relationship...so I'm not ruling that out.

 

[gopkrs]

Rodgers ability to change plays has been known for a long time. once MM allowed that genie out of the bottle there was no putting it back. the failure of the O is on both of them. some flexibility is good but wholesale ability to change things is bad. that's one reason i say the new coach is going to be between a rock and a hard place. reeling in the prima donna is going to be near impossible...and we already know he's not shy about calling out the coach. who's going to want to take that on?

Well if the new coach can't handle it; he will have been a bad pick for coach. otoh He better (and should) be successful offensively. I trust in Gute to help him with some players in needed positions.

 

[rodell330]

So when the offense sucked last year...was Rodgers changing the plays from the sideline while he was hurt? Was he calling audibles In Hundleys headset? Haha hmm

 

[longtimefan]

So when the offense sucked last year...was Rodgers changing the plays from the sideline while he was hurt? Was he calling audibles In Hundleys headset? Haha hmm

No Hundley just sucked

However Matt Flynn did okay?

 

[Stanger37]

Sure. Best case let's say you had traded Rodgers to the Browns for their 2018 #1 and #4 picks. Under those terms I would not expect additional considerations. And then lets say you did what the Browns did and drafted Mayfield and Ward.

• Over the next 4 years including 2018, Mayfield's total cap cost is $32.7 mil compared to Rodgers $113.5 mil, about $20 mil in additional cap per year, $13 mil in 2018 and $19 mil in 2019 to start out.
• Or skip Mayfield and take one of the other QBs. Pick your favorite. The cost difference would be immaterial under the rookie salary scale.
• Either way, that savings can go toward impact FAs
• With Ward on board, either the Alexander or Jackson pick could have been used at another position
• In rebuilding mode, there would not be much point in holding on to Cobb and Matthews in 2018. That's another $21 mil in cap savings in addition to the $13 mil in the Mayfield savings that could have gone toward FAs in 2018.

And the cap savings is a gift that keeps on giving, year after year, for 4 years anyway.

Other scenarios can be drawn up with lower 2018/2019 picks, but that would require additional considerations from that team.

Risky? Sure. That QB could be a bust. Giving up on 2018? Why not. It wasn't a championship caliber roster to begin with, and that too is not 20/20 hindsight. It would be kind of exciting, though, with a lot of draft capital and cap to work with.

As it stands, you can slog along and hope Gutekunst can stack a couple more drafts. It is a moot point though, isn't it? Stacking drafts it is, and as we've seen in Thompson's later years that is not without its own risks.

So, New Orleans is getting it done now with Brees making big bucks. Well, consider they drafted the offensive and defensive rookies of the year last season with other adds through the draft. Stack they did after a number of crappy seasons.

Certainly I do not want Rodgers to be traded because with him behind center there is always a glimmer of hope. But it really irks me they signed him to such extension and I am sure I will be corrected if wrong, but 2 years before his previous extension ended. Seeing how they played WITHOUT him last year gave him a huge advantage to negotiating and I think the front office jumped the gun and made sure to lock him up. They and we saw the same thing with him sidelined. He has earned all the money he is making without a doubt. But I wish the organization would do a little more to help the supporting cast around him and now a little handcuffed because of him.

I was asked last year by a Bears fan who is constantly testing my patience if I thought the Packers should move on from Rodgers because the team looks awful and they're wasting his good years away. And while the obviously answer is a big "NO!" Sitting back and actually thinking about the hypothetical of it happening, I wasn't that upset if they actually moved on from him. Because if a team that was in the market last year traded for him, Jax, Ari, or Den, I wouldn't have been angry and after watching this year happen all over again, that same part of me that wouldn't have been angry, still wouldn't be angry.

 

[easyk83]

No Hundley just sucked

However Matt Flynn did okay?

In a way the offensive problems were comparable. The Hundley offense was a predictable run on 1st a predictable run or short pass on second and then throw into coverage on third and long, much like Wisconsin's offense this year. With Rodgers its deep patterns on first second and a third down sack before punting. Like Rudolph's Badger Offense defenses are able to completely cheat towards one phase of our offense at a time and it shows up in broken drives. Dont worry about the run or short passes and run either 2 or 3 deep shell and make Rodgers hold the football until he gets sacked. Dont worry about a surefire first down to that uncovered runningback because Rodgers wont throw to him. This problem could be mitigated if they'd occasionally work the back up to 2 or 3 in the progression chain. Do that and you'll open up a bit more space downfield.

 

[Do7]

And while guys like Cowherd and Bayless are pouncing on Arodg.

And right on cue...Colin is talking about this topic today. *sigh*

 

[sschind]

The difference here is that the Bears defense is largely stacked top to bottom. We have serious holes at a few positions. I don't even mind our depth, if we had 2-3 good players that'd knock a couple players down into backup roles.

And the Patriots...they're curve wreckers

I agree. That's why I said they have more guys knocking on the door of being superstars. I was watching the Bears vikings game and when they went through the Bears defensive players I was like "holy ****, they have some really good players" even though Mack was the only one I'd consider a superstar. My point was you don't necessarily need superstars to win if you have enough really good players that are close. We have a few but not enough. And like Do7 said it helps to be drafting in the top third rather than the bottom third.

 

[sschind]

The Bears also benefited from early draft picks in regards to a defensive front, and they have one of the best offensive play callers in the game right now. Plus they also benefit from a weak schedule b/c they finished last. They will not repeat this little Cinderella run next year Book it! Then again they might depending on Trubisky.

As for The Patriots look at their division. Nuff said. No seriously look at how pathetic that division is.

Maybe it's just me, but it seems like a handful of you would like to see Rodgers go as well as McCarthy from what it sounds like. In any case we've seen how well McCarthy has been as a play caller, and there has been plenty of times where his play calling has costed us the freaking game. The most infamous was the 2014 NFC Championship game. Rodgers taking issue with his play calling should be no surprise, as well as him audibling out of some of them as he may see something on the field that he can exploit. Up until this year this hasn't been a problem. It's a problem because we're so used to Rodgers playing Superman, thus spoiling us. Now we see a ***** in his armor and some of you are ready to turn on him. Need we forget how inept this organization has been over the years at putting talent around him all because of a broken philosophy in draft and developed? It was good but the times have changed and we're one of the only teams that hasn't appeared to have adapted. The same can be said about play calling.

I remember in the past years before joining here I would see some of you guys talk about how Rodgers would butt heads about the playcalling. Including the gif one of you guy posted where you can literally see him mouth "terrible ****ing play/call to Mike.

McCarthy has had plenty of opportunities to earn Rodgers trust and respect but has blown it. Rodgers is far from blameless but the writing was on the wall for the longest, it's not that we're LOSING is why so much noise is being made. And why guys like Cowherd and Bayless are pouncing on Arodg.

I think when Aaron is on his game he could be considered the best QB in the league. I think he is off his game right now but I also think he can get back on. For that reason I do not want to move on from him. I want AR to be the Packers QB. I just want him to get back on his game and I think McCarthy's presence is affecting his ability to do that. I am not going to lay all the blame for this season on McCarthy like some fans want to because I do think Rodgers has contributed his share. Whether its the play calling or Rodger's disrespect for MM or his ego or whatever something is keeping him off his game. The play calling is not on Rodgers (unless the bad play on the field is a result of him changing the plays that MM calls to spite him) but his disrespect and his ego are. He needs to get them in check and I don't think he will so that probably means McCarthy has to go.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

There is a ton of conjecture imbedded in that stuff. And they're tripping over each other to take the blame, which is as it should be.

One thing we can be sure of: The guy with the massive contract is not going anywhere for a long, long time.

There's more to McCarthy's future than this hyper focus on play calling. There's the matter of his team being undisciplined and penalty prone.

And if winning cures all ills, losing reveals those ills that have been overlooked.

This is all true, and I certainly won't paint McCarthy as a total victim in this, especially considering he is HC over the entire team, and some of the problems we've seen out of the players seem to indicate a HC who is disengaged with them.

But unfortunately I really believe there is a lot of truth to these sayings. Rodgers's contract has seemed to have gone to his head, and he's now turned into the man he was once an understudy to. I mean, I definitely have to admit the way he seems to want to run around the pocket and take deep shots if he doesn't get sacked first is very Favre like. Favre did this all the time before Sherman got fired. Only difference is Rodgers substitutes the ints for sacks.