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Not Going For 2

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by BorderRivals.com, Dec 16, 2013.

  1. BorderRivals.com

    BorderRivals.com Cheesehead

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    Though it didn't matter in the end, MM made a terrible decision not going for two in third quarter. We were down 29-16 at that point. Going for two makes it an 11-pt. game and we'd only need another TD+2 and FG. And then if they score a FG, it's still only a 2 TD game. I thought at the time and still think now that MM blew that one.
     
  2. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    While I'm hardly a big fan of MM's play calling, I think it was too early in the game to question that call. In a 12 point game, a TD and 2 FG differential gets you a win. In a 13 point game it gets you OT. That's not an inconsequential difference with a lot of football still left to play.

    We had the momentum. I liked the fact that kicking in that situation is an expression of confidence rather than a "we need every last point we can get" hint of desperation.
     
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  3. ARodsBelt12

    ARodsBelt12 Cheesehead

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    That's two pretty big ifs getting both 2 point conversions. We won the game, we're still alive. Can't we just enjoy this without bashing MM?
     
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  4. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    It was 3rd q...No need to go for two
     
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  5. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I think it is possible to both enjoy a win and bash a bad performance. I don't think that call makes the list of things to question, win or lose.
     
  6. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I should qualify that earlier statement. I don't have many bones to pick with MM's play calling this year. Prior seasons...surely. In particular, I like the fact MM doesn't try 50+ FGs outdoors on 4th. and short anymore. This also seems to be trend around the league. Old dogs do learn new tricks.
     
  7. Bus Cook

    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    Agreeance. This was a win, but Romo gets our game ball in a landslide.
     
  8. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    He went for 2 vs the Vikings during the late comeback and didn't get it. Then they ended up being tied instead of winning by 1. I am fine with him not going for it.
     
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  9. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

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    I'm more upset that MM's team didn't show up until after halftime--and he should be too.
     
  10. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    Sheesh, just further proof that most people don't understand the use of the 2 point conversion. There was no reason to ever go for two at any point in that game, just like he should not have gone for 2 in the Vikings game when he did as it cost us a win in regulation.
     
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  11. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

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    Only time you really want to go for two is, obviously to tie the game, but also if it will put the team ahead or behind by 7,10,14,17,21, etc...Also, go for two at the end of the game if it will give your team the win rather than playing for OT. All you have to do to figure that last one out is decide if your team has a better chance of advancing two yards or if you have a better chance of winning in OT. Generally the two yards is a better probability.
     
  12. Bus Cook

    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    Another factor is playing to win on the road versus playing to tie at home, at the end of regulation.
     
  13. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    I am sick and tired of MM going for 2, not getting it and yet going for it again.
    When is he going to learn that going for 2 is not always needed?
    Or that throwing on 2 isn't working and it's time to try running plays on the 2 instead?
    Sheesh. SMH
     
  14. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    The problem with the 2 pt conversion is that so many people still use the 30+ year old chart created by Dick Vermeil. It is and outdated chart that takes nothing into consideration other than the score and that is the problem. Coaches seem to blindly use that chart and not take any other factors into consideration.
     
  15. Bus Cook

    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    Vermeil? He may be older than Capers
     
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  16. Zeck180

    Zeck180 Cheesehead

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    Well at lest he didn't do a Mike Shannon.
     
  17. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    But if you go for 2 and don't make it, you're down by 13. A TD and 2 FGs only ties the game. Being down by only 12 means a TD+1 and 2 FGs wins the game for you. With a whole quarter to go the decision to go for two would have been criticized heavily, and rightfully so if we got that TD followed by 2 FGs and then lost in OT.

    The only time you go for 2 is if you have nothing to gain by taking the 1. In the 3rd quarter, there's certainly a potential gain by closing to a 12 point deficit rather than a 13 point deficit. Now if there were only 5 minutes left in the game, I might agree with you on the 2 point try.
     
  18. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    Which is??? :confused:
     
  19. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    Of course they take other factors into consideration. It's intended to be a guide and nothing more. Some coaches completely disregard it until the 4th quarter. Sometimes they go against it based on their own teams strengths/weaknesses and those of their opponents. I've seen plenty of times they didn't go with the chart (and usually it bites them anyway later). Following the chart is usually the right decision probably more than 90% of the time. That's why it survives for 40 years.
     
  20. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    And you would be wrong, despite how easy it is to look that up.

    I believe the 40 yarder against ATL is his longest make below 40 degrees this season, and that was a low, knuckling affair. MM has passed up some long ones outdoors this year; I think he's figured it out.

    It is somewhat ironic that despite Crosby having his best season at 88.2%, that counts for only 16th. in the league. It's the year of the kicker, as coaches have finally decided to take into account their kickers' limitations and the game situation.

    Crosby is 6 of 8 from 40-49 (the money shots) and 5 of 7 from 50+, or 11 of 15 from 40+ for 73%. That might have been Pro Bowl 10 years ago, but not in this league, this year.

    All 15 of the kickers ahead of Crosby in the % ranking have 3 or fewer misses from 40+ yards. Even the 17th. ranked guy, Vinatieri, would get the nod with 13 of 15 from 40-49 and 3 of 5 from 50+.

    Crosby's % is also pumped up by attempting 12 from 29 yds. or less, more than anybody else in the league, thanks to our lousy red zone offense for the bulk of the season.

    He's having a good year, but it's not all that great compared to the competition.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  21. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    Never mind, I was thinking of his record-breaking kick at New York.
     
  22. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I'm not sure what record he broke, but it was a 57 yarder to his credit...in 60 degree weather, no precip, light wind. I happen to recall it clearly, but that's fairly easy to look up as well.

    As we've been over time and time again, Crosby's career productivity drops meaningfully below 50 degrees, and quite sharply below 40 degrees.

    That's acceptable, if not particularly comforting come playoff time in Lambeau (some day), so long as the coach knows it and acts accordingly. Coaches try too many 50 yarders as it is, though that's been changing. Passing over the long kicks in less than optimal conditions works in our favor over time, Crosby or otherwise. Dome games? Kick away.
     
  23. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    Longest FG at Giants Stadium. There's a reason for that. That place is notorious for odd wind patterns. It was a helluva kick. Credit due. And even light wind has an appreciable effect on the ball at that range.

    Not this year. He hit 3 last week when it was 10 degrees.
     
  24. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    The kick in the Giant's game was in dome-like conditions. As I've said before on numerous occasions, the data suggest Crosby might be an All Pro if he only kicked in domes or like conditions.

    Of the 3 kicks in 10 degrees against ATL that you site, two were chip shots from 25 and 33. Unless there's 6" of snow on the field, making those kicks in the NFL earns no applause; missing them gets you fired.

    And as previously noted, the third kick, a 40 yarder, was a low kick knuckle-diving toward the right upright. That was hardly a thing of beauty. Glad it went through, for everybody's sake. Had it been from 45 he would have missed it, would have been blasted for having cost us the game, and the whole "boot Crosby" debate would be inflamed anew, in which case I'd be repeating a whole lot of stuff. I find that tedious, just as repeating this stuff is tedious.
     
  25. GoPGo

    GoPGo Cheesehead

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    Ridiculous.

    What a crock.

    There's no such thing as a "chip shot" when you're kicking in 10 degree, windy weather. The ball is rock hard in those conditions, especially with the NFL's special "kicking balls." For you to dismiss those three kicks and his record at Giants Stadium as no big deal exposes you as having an agenda where Crosby is concerned. The man has been excellent this year and no amount of nay-saying can change that. Discredit him all you want. Apparently no kick is worthy of note in the NFL.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013

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