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i don't think it's a nitpick at all. "freeing up" cap space implies we have money to spend. the packers still have to clear away another $47+ million before they can spend a dime.

No, see here's where you're wrong.

They don't use dimes when they spend money. It's mostly wire transfers directly into people's bank accounts.
 

Phil Young

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The cap & how it works confuses me.

To my simple mind how high is the cap Vs how much we pay each player each season take one from the other & voila cap space BUT no it isn't like that as some money isn't counted & other money was paid to a player who may not even be on the team any more is counted.

I am a simple Quality Control analyst in a chemical company working in a lab. I am easily confused
 
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That's possible, but what's also possible is that they've decided to build as much as possible around Love or some other QB in 2022 in the contingency that Rodgers isn't back.

You do if you want to creat space and build around a young QB to give him the best chance to succeed.

With it being close to impossible that the Packers would be a playoff team with Love starting in 2022 I don't think pushing a ton of cap space into future seasons should be considered a smart move. In that case I would prefer to cut the losses, right the ship concerning the cap immediately, accumulate as many draft picks as possible, retain all young blue chip players and start over to be competitive from maybe the '23 season on already.

We’re comparing that peak play with a Novice QB, who btw I don’t believe anyone thought would be ready until Aarons Contract expired (at best).

My point is I don’t think the Packers brass were ever on some natural performance high with Love to start. Thus this “disappointment” some fans speak of is more contrived than an accurate representation of team executives’ expectations.

I believe our staff simply saw (albeit in raw form)of what Love was capable of in small chunks as a young College Sophomore. It’s quite reasonable that they saw the inconsistencies and thought those could be fixed over time.

If the Packers front office truly believed Love would not be ready to start at the NFL level before his rookie contract expired it was an even worse mistake to draft him than it already was.

i don't think it's a nitpick at all. "freeing up" cap space implies we have money to spend. the packers still have to clear away another $47+ million before they can spend a dime.

No, it means the Packers aren't as much over the cap as they already were entering this offseason.

They don't use dimes when they spend money. It's mostly wire transfers directly into people's bank accounts.

Well, if you ask Letroy Guion it seems like players are getting paid in cash ;)

The cap & how it works confuses me.

To my simple mind how high is the cap Vs how much we pay each player each season take one from the other & voila cap space BUT no it isn't like that as some money isn't counted & other money was paid to a player who may not even be on the team any more is counted.

I am a simple Quality Control analyst in a chemical company working in a lab. I am easily confused

It's impossible to explain the NFL's salary cap in a few words. There are some websites solely dedicated on doing that in detail.

Here's a link to one that does a great job explaining it though:

 

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In a twist, which I find highly improbable, is it possible that the Packers are making all these moves to try to put themselves in a better position to win games with Love under center, to show that they made the right decisions?

Instead of just biting the bullet, maybe they intend showing everyone how brilliant they are? Ever thought of that? If they did actually win enough games this coming year with Love at QB, and made the playoffs, they'd be lauded as geniuses by some.

I haven't. Just saying.....
 

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I remember the talk about Rodgers been no good & most wanted Favre back when he decided he wasn't going to retire. & Rodgers wasn't that good then but developed into the player he is today.

Time is needed for most players to develop & QB need more time than most. NOT saying Love is the answer just don't know if he is or isn't. A lot on here seem to have him written off as some did with Rodgers.
 
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With it being close to impossible that the Packers would be a playoff team with Love starting in 2022 I don't think pushing a ton of cap space into future seasons should be considered a smart move. In that case I would prefer to cut the losses, right the ship concerning the cap immediately, accumulate as many draft picks as possible, retain all young blue chip players and start over to be competitive from maybe the '23 season on already.

The odds are that Rodgers is back and that Love is not a good starting QB. On that much we agree.

But I still can see a scenario where the team moves on to Love and doesn't tear down the roster in order to give him the best chance to succeed and in order to give them a clear picture of what they're working with.

The Packers have had two HOF caliber QB's over the past three decades, and neither of them looked particularly promising to start their careers. So they might not be quite as impulsive as fans are to decide with certainty that Love can't play.
 

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In a twist, which I find highly improbable, is it possible that the Packers are making all these moves to try to put themselves in a better position to win games with Love under center, to show that they made the right decisions?
It's not really a twist. Whether Aaron Rodgers, Jordan Love, or Voyageur is the quarterback of the club next season, the Packers have to get back under the cap regardless. Most of these moves have to be done no matter whichever direction we go. They will just need more if they need to fit Rodgers and Adams in there too.
 

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I remember the talk about Rodgers been no good & most wanted Favre back when he decided he wasn't going to retire. & Rodgers wasn't that good then but developed into the player he is today.

Time is needed for most players to develop & QB need more time than most. NOT saying Love is the answer just don't know if he is or isn't. A lot on here seem to have him written off as some did with Rodgers.
By sitting behind Favre, Rodgers learned to take car of the ball to avoid turnovers. On the other hand, he also learned to let his ego grow and manipulate the team the same as Favre. The buckthorn doesn't grow far from the tree.
 
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If the Packers front office truly believed Love would not be ready to start at the NFL level before his rookie contract expired it was an even worse mistake to draft him than it already was.
That’s another cheap shot at Love
Did the Packers know that 2020 was going to be a blown Covid season?
Did you actually believe #12 would come back after 2 seasons of slight regression and have MVP caliber seasons? Nobody knew that.

He’s had ONE full season Captain, you’re acting like Jordan been here 4 years.
Again. It’s fine not to like the selection, i didn’t at the time I was kinda discouraged we did that to Aaron. Yet saying Love should’ve been better sooner just shows me you have to “reach” to supply a proper argument. Which reinforces you are protecting your premature position on Love

It reminds me of clients I have that want to skirt around with reasons why they can’t commit to a transaction with all sorts of excuses. When all along they could just say they think the idea sucks and I’d totally respect that. :)
 
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tynimiller

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Short of having a HOF career, Love will NEVER be enough for many (this is not directed at anyone specifically), but it is true.
 

swhitset

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That’s another cheap shot at Love
Did the Packers know that 2020 was going to be a blown Covid season?
Did you actually believe #12 would come back after 2 seasons of slight regression and have MVP caliber seasons? Nobody knew that.

He’s had ONE full season Captain, you’re acting like Jordan been here 4 years.
Again. It’s fine not to like the selection, i didn’t at the time I was kinda discouraged we did that to Aaron. Yet saying Love should’ve been better sooner just shows me you have to “reach” to supply a proper argument. Which reinforces you are protecting your premature position on Love

It reminds me of clients I have that want to skirt around with reasons why they can’t commit to a transaction with all sorts of excuses. When all along they could just say they think the idea sucks and I’d totally respect that. :)
Your entire response ignores what he actually said. He was not criticizing Love… but rather he was countering your statement…

OldSchool101 said:
We’re comparing that peak play with a Novice QB, who btw I don’t believe anyone thought would be ready until Aarons Contract expired (at best).

captainWIMM said:
If the Packers front office truly believed Love would not be ready to start at the NFL level before his rookie contract expired it was an even worse mistake than it already was.

He is saying …. (and I agree with him)… that The Packers certainly hoped Love would be ready before Rodgers contract expired because you don’t draft anyone hoping that maybe they will be ready by the time you have to pay them big bucks for that second contract. Therefore, either the Packers made a very dumb decision to draft him when they did, or they truly hoped he’d be ready before Rodgers contract expired…
 

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With it being close to impossible that the Packers would be a playoff team with Love starting in 2022 I don't think pushing a ton of cap space into future seasons should be considered a smart move. In that case I would prefer to cut the losses, right the ship concerning the cap immediately, accumulate as many draft picks as possible, retain all young blue chip players and start over to be competitive from maybe the '23 season on already.



If the Packers front office truly believed Love would not be ready to start at the NFL level before his rookie contract expired it was an even worse mistake to draft him than it already was.



No, it means the Packers aren't as much over the cap as they already were entering this offseason.



Well, if you ask Letroy Guion it seems like players are getting paid in cash ;)



It's impossible to explain the NFL's salary cap in a few words. There are some websites solely dedicated on doing that in detail.

Here's a link to one that does a great job explaining it though:

My head hurts. It is way too complicated for me lol
 
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Your entire response ignores what he actually said. He was not criticizing Love… but rather he was countering your statement…

OldSchool101 said:
We’re comparing that peak play with a Novice QB, who btw I don’t believe anyone thought would be ready until Aarons Contract expired (at best).

captainWIMM said:
If the Packers front office truly believed Love would not be ready to start at the NFL level before his rookie contract expired it was an even worse mistake than it already was.

He is saying …. (and I agree with him)… that The Packers certainly hoped Love would be ready before Rodgers contract expired because you don’t draft anyone hoping that maybe they will be ready by the time you have to pay them big bucks for that second contract. Therefore, either the Packers made a very dumb decision to draft him when they did, or they truly hoped he’d be ready before Rodgers contract expired…
That’s not true. The 2 QB’s contracts don’t coincide snd that’s the rebuttal you are supplying.
From a 2020 draft perspective and not using current information, Rodgers contract expires after 2022 with an “out” after 2021. Love has a potential 5th year option that takes him potentially through the 2024 season.
So, in fact, their contracts are between 2-3 years separated. Hence not a valid counter. The Packers would’ve had zero idea of a Rodgers future during the 2020 draft past the 2021 or at latest 2022 season. They were likely planning a contingency for transition at that point in time (2023 season). He’s still a Rookie

In addition 2020 covid soured his development. You could argue he lost most of a season of quality reps. Camp, preseason all shot to heck. Hence the staff could’ve been initially contemplating him starting sooner (e.g 2022 season if they traded Rodgers )
As I said. He’s a season behind in development and he needed 2-3 years to begin with and he’s not there yet and that had zero to do with the Packers planning on eating his entire Rookie contact as you so kindly reposted (Captains jab).
My argument is that we already know from history that teams don’t mind developing a QB for 2 or even 3 seasons. Love would’ve leaned 2-3 seasons easily based on just 2.5 years of college play. Add a covid season and that’s 3-4 seasons and I don’t believe teams should be publicly reprimanded for doing what they’ve done all along.

So once again with all due respect, Love is not a special case scenario as the Captain eluded to. He’s been here 1 full season to be fair or a Redshirt Sophomore, yet you guys are implying and now doubling down on supporting that the Packers staff were intentionally going to wait until AFTER 2024 (5th year) or essentially the 2025 season when his Rookie contract was depleted. I respectfully do not agree with that assertion and I think it’s a subtle way of calling our staff foolish in order to supply a point defending a mere opinion

Man up and say you don’t like the player is all I’m saying.
 
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swhitset

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That’s not true. The 2 QB’s contracts don’t coincide snd that’s the rebuttal you are supplying.
From a 2020 draft perspective and not using current information, Rodgers contract expires after 2022 with an “out” after 2021. Love has a potential 5th year option that takes him potentially through the 2024 season.
So, in fact, their contracts are between 2-3 years separated. Hence not a valid counter. The Packers would’ve had zero idea of a Rodgers future during the 2020 draft past the 2021 or at latest 2022 season. They were likely planning a contingency for transition at that point in time.

In addition 2020 covid soured his development. You could argue he lost most of a season of quality reps. Camp, preseason all shot to heck. Hence the staff could’ve been initially contemplating him starting sooner. As I said. He’s a season behind in development and he needed 2-3 years to begin with and he’s not there yet and that had zero to do with the Packers planning on eating his entire Rookie contact as you so kindly reposted (Captains jab).
My argument is that we already know from history that teams don’t mind developing a QB for 2 or even 3 seasons. Love would’ve leaned 2-3 seasons easily based on just 2.5 years of college play. Add a covid season and that’s 3-4 seasons and I don’t believe teams should be publicly reprimanded for doing what they’ve done all along. Love is not a special case scenario as the Captain eluded to. He’s been here 1 full season to be fair or a Redshirt Sophomore
I’m too tired to parse all that right now… maybe i’ll revisit it tomorrow… right now all i’m going to say is that you definitely have a much different perspective than I where that draft is concerned. As far as your opinion on Rodgers ability at the time, I am not even a little bit surprised that he has played as well as he has the past couple of years. All of this has been discussed before, but anyone that was paying attention could see that Rodgers‘ so called down years… we’re easily explained by a multitude of things… Injury, poor tired coaching tendencies, leading to learning a brand new system the year before Love was drafted Rodgers led the team to 14 wins that year too btw. In any event, your suggestion that nobody should have expected Rodgers to play well going forward is simply not true. That being said, drafting Love has done nothing but literally cause all of this dissension. Rodgers is a difficult personality… and he can definitely wear you out, but all of this was predictable specifically because his attitudes are fairly easy to predict. That being the case, I stand by the previous argument that the Packers definitely hoped Love would be ready to play by now, and that window you are trying to open between the end of Rodgers contract and the end of Love‘s rookie contract overlaps too much for them to have thought any differently. You have drawn a line in the sand regarding your support for Love and your obvious desire to move on from Rodgers. What is interesting is that the Packers themselves obviously are not feeling the same way. If they were, they wouldn’t be waiting quietly for Rodgers to make a decision… and they would not be making the moves that they have already done regarding Clark, Jones, etc…
 
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I’m too tired to parse all that right now… maybe i’ll revisit it tomorrow… right now all i’m going to say is that you definitely have a much different perspective than I where that draft is concerned. As far as your opinion on Rodgers ability at the time, I am not even a little bit surprised that he has played as well as he has the past couple of years. All of this has been discussed before, but anyone that was paying attention could see that Rodgers‘ so called down years… we’re easily explained by a multitude of things… Injury, poor tired coaching tendencies, leading to learning a brand new system the year before Love was drafted Rodgers led the team to 14 wins that year too btw. In any event, your suggestion that nobody should have expected Rodgers to play well going forward is simply not true. That being said, drafting Love has done nothing but literally cause all of this dissension. Rodgers is a difficult personality… and he can definitely wear you out, but all of this was predictable specifically because his attitudes are fairly easy to predict. That being the case, I stand by the previous argument that the Packers definitely hoped Love would be ready to play by now, and that window you are trying to open between the end of Rodgers contract and the end of Love‘s rookie contract overlaps too much for them to have thought any differently. You have drawn a line in the sand regarding your support for Love and your obvious desire to move on from Rodgers. What is interesting is that the Packers themselves obviously are not feeling the same way. If they were, they wouldn’t be waiting quietly for Rodgers to make a decision… and they would not be making the moves that they have already done regarding Clark, Jones, etc…
It’s ok. I’m good either way. I don’t value winning over melting relationships with entireties of people. I think it’s a poor example for young people and becoming increasingly irritating to watch and that’s what Rodgers has come to represent.

I do not hate Aaron Rodgers. I pray he will grow up one day is all and quit being self centered. Is that too much to ask?

As for the Packers. We have represented the best in a winning attitude long before we were around. I want to get back to that winning attitude and im 100% we can do it with or without 1 man. Because after all.. he’s just a man. We were looking for the next guy when we found Rodgers. We can be looking again and maybe the next one won’t be so controversial

I’m not one to be upset if we extend him. It’s just a piece of pigskin and entertainment. I’ve got much more important things to supply myself with. I took the 2020 regular season off and it didn’t even phase me so I don’t think the Rodgers Love debate is going to rattle me.
Peace LaX bro
 
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Phil Young

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Love needs time & he lost a year, as did others, due to covid.
Any player can go down on any play all teams need a good backup more so at QB. Now I have no idea how good Love was in college as I don't get to watch any college football. So my opinion isn't valid on how good Love is or could be BUT I assume scouts know how to evaluate players in college same as college scouts will evaluate players coming out of highschool. or am I missing something?
 

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It’s ok. I’m good either way. I don’t value winning over melting relationships with entireties of people. I think it’s a poor example for young people and becoming increasingly irritating to watch and that’s what Rodgers has come to represent.

I do not hate Aaron Rodgers. I pray he will grow up one day is all and quit being self centered. Is that too much to ask?

As for the Packers. We have represented the best in a winning attitude long before we were around. I want to get back to that winning attitude and im 100% we can do it with or without 1 man. Because after all.. he’s just a man. We were looking for the next guy when we found Rodgers. We can be looking again and maybe the next one won’t be so controversial

I’m not one to be upset if we extend him. It’s just a piece of pigskin and entertainment. I’ve got much more important things to supply myself with. I took the 2020 regular season off and it didn’t even phase me so I don’t think the Rodgers Love debate is going to rattle me.
Peace LaX bro
I don’t think we disagree too much there. I am not eager to see the Packers without a top QB and personally am not burned out on Rodgers yet, but I certainly understand why some people are.
 

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I’m too tired to parse all that right now… maybe i’ll revisit it tomorrow… right now all i’m going to say is that you definitely have a much different perspective than I where that draft is concerned. As far as your opinion on Rodgers ability at the time, I am not even a little bit surprised that he has played as well as he has the past couple of years. All of this has been discussed before, but anyone that was paying attention could see that Rodgers‘ so called down years… we’re easily explained by a multitude of things… Injury, poor tired coaching tendencies, leading to learning a brand new system the year before Love was drafted Rodgers led the team to 14 wins that year too btw. In any event, your suggestion that nobody should have expected Rodgers to play well going forward is simply not true. That being said, drafting Love has done nothing but literally cause all of this dissension. Rodgers is a difficult personality… and he can definitely wear you out, but all of this was predictable specifically because his attitudes are fairly easy to predict. That being the case, I stand by the previous argument that the Packers definitely hoped Love would be ready to play by now, and that window you are trying to open between the end of Rodgers contract and the end of Love‘s rookie contract overlaps too much for them to have thought any differently. You have drawn a line in the sand regarding your support for Love and your obvious desire to move on from Rodgers. What is interesting is that the Packers themselves obviously are not feeling the same way. If they were, they wouldn’t be waiting quietly for Rodgers to make a decision… and they would not be making the moves that they have already done regarding Clark, Jones, etc…
If this is what we get when you're tired... :)
 

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