NFL is fixed????

[TJV]

… the NFL isn't doing anything wrong because they are an entertainment business.

Perhaps you mean nothing criminal because fixing games is certainly wrong. And even then if any participant of the conspiracy bet even a dollar on games it would result in criminal charges, and there may be criminal charges anyway. Beyond that, the NFL represents itself as an honest game and billions of dollars are bet on NFL games every year. If such a scandal were exposed, the league would be subject to huge civil lawsuits.

… the Ravens and Seahawks make it to Super Bowls even though their defenses lead the league or top 2nd or 3rd in defensive penalties.

So the officials you believe conspired for those two teams to appear in the Super Bowl were in the top 3 penalized defenses in the league in those years? Sure, that makes perfect sense: How better to ensure a team reaches the Super Bowl than by calling a lot of penalties on them?

Roger Goodell makes more than $35M/year (perhaps more than $40M) and the NFL is a multi-billion dollar enterprise which is becoming more profitable every year. So of course it makes sense Goodell has orchestrated a conspiracy with league officials to fix games. If exposed that would not only bring shame upon him, it would probably subject him to criminal and civil charges, and it would also cause his firing. It's difficult to think of anything he could do which would cause more damage to the “golden goose” that is the NFL and ruin his own reputation and legacy as commissioner.

The NFL certainly strives for competitive balance. That’s why they share TV revenue, that’s why teams with the worst records draft early and the Super Bowl winner drafts last. That’s why the order of teams claiming players on waivers works the same way. In spite of that, even some of the biggest games like last year's Super Bowl end up being blow outs. And of course I’m not saying no game has ever been fixed. But it’s a huge leap from there to believing in this Goodell-led conspiracy.

...after you say those stupid things to yourself for the 20th time you need to wake up and realize its a bunch of bull.

Instead of being a fan of every team it sounds like you should try being a fan of none since it’s all a bunch of bull anyway. Hey, IMO there’s not that much difference between the two anyway (if you’re a fan of every team IMO you’re not a fan of any particular team). But if you really buy this BS, why be a fan of the NFL at all? Anyway, so much for you being the “adult” on the forum, superior to all of us fanatics of just one team – hey, perhaps you can instruct us on who was really behind 9/11?

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Perhaps you mean nothing criminal because fixing games is certainly wrong. And even then if any participant of the conspiracy bet even a dollar on games it would result in criminal charges, and there may be criminal charges anyway. Beyond that, the NFL represents itself as an honest game and billions of dollars are bet on NFL games every year. If such a scandal were exposed, the league would be subject to huge civil lawsuits. So the officials you believe conspired for those two teams to appear in the Super Bowl were in the top 3 penalized defenses in the league in those years? Sure, that makes perfect sense: How better to ensure a team reaches the Super Bowl than by calling a lot of penalties on them?

Roger Goodell makes more than $35M/year (perhaps more than $40M) and the NFL is a multi-billion dollar enterprise which is becoming more profitable every year. So of course it makes sense Goodell has orchestrated a conspiracy with league officials to fix games. If exposed that would not only bring shame upon him, it would probably subject him to criminal and civil charges, and it was also cause his firing. It's difficult to think of anything he could do which would cause more damage to the “golden goose” that is the NFL and ruin his own reputation and legacy as commissioner.

The NFL certainly strives for competitive balance. That’s why they share TV revenue, that’s why teams with the worst records draft early and the Super Bowl winner drafts last. That’s why the order of teams claiming players on waivers works the same way. In spite of that, even some of the biggest games like last year's Super Bowl end up being blow outs. And of course I’m not saying no game has ever been fixed. But it’s a huge leap from there to believing in this Goodell-led conspiracy. Instead of being a fan of every team it sounds like you should try being a fan of none since it’s all a bunch of bull anyway. Hey, IMO there’s not that much difference between the two anyway (if you’re a fan of every team IMO you’re not a fan of any particular team). But if you really buy this BS, why be a fan of the NFL at all? Anyway, so much for you being the “adult” on the forum, superior to all of us fanatics of just one team – hey, perhaps you can instruct us on who was really behind 9/11?

It was some scab refs, c'mon we all know that.

 

[Raptorman]

[/COLOR]
The NFL certainly strives for competitive balance. That’s why they share TV revenue, that’s why teams with the worst records draft early and the Super Bowl winner drafts last. That’s why the order of teams claiming players on waivers works the same way. In spite of that, even some of the biggest games like last year's Super Bowl end up being blow outs. And of course I’m not saying no game has ever been fixed. But it’s a huge leap from there to believing in this Goodell-led conspiracy. Instead of being a fan of every team it sounds like you should try being a fan of none since it’s all a bunch of bull anyway. Hey, IMO there’s not that much difference between the two anyway (if you’re a fan of every team IMO you’re not a fan of any particular team). But if you really buy this BS, why be a fan of the NFL at all? Anyway, so much for you being the “adult” on the forum, superior to all of us fanatics of just one team – hey, perhaps you can instruct us on who was really behind 9/11?

Do they really? Do they really push for competitive balance? If they did I think we would see more different teams in the playoffs than what we do.... so Buffalo is been at a competitive balance with the Patriots for the last 15 years? Why do we see the same teams in the playoffs year after year? Look at the teams that have played in the Super Bowl. Then look at which areas have the biggest markets for TV. Am I saying they have a conspiracy to promote certain teams? No. But one has to wonder, if it really is a level playing field, why has Dallas been to the Super Bowl 7 times and Detroit 0?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Do they really? Do they really push for competitive balance? If they did I think we would see more different teams in the playoffs than what we do.... so Buffalo is been at a competitive balance with the Patriots for the last 15 years? Why do we see the same teams in the playoffs year after year? Look at the teams that have played in the Super Bowl. Then look at which areas have the biggest markets for TV. Am I saying they have a conspiracy to promote certain teams? No. But one has to wonder, if it really is a level playing field, why has Dallas been to the Super Bowl 7 times and Detroit 0?

I guess it's fair to say that QB play has something to do with that.

 

[TJV]

Do they really? Do they really push for competitive balance? If they did I think we would see more different teams in the playoffs than what we do.... so Buffalo is been at a competitive balance with the Patriots for the last 15 years? Why do we see the same teams in the playoffs year after year? Look at the teams that have played in the Super Bowl. Then look at which areas have the biggest markets for TV. Am I saying they have a conspiracy to promote certain teams? No. But one has to wonder, if it really is a level playing field, why has Dallas been to the Super Bowl 7 times and Detroit 0?

Hey, I understand why a Vikings fan would be bitter, but your repeated letters to the commissioner to spot the Vikings a 7 point lead in every game and an extra first round draft pick until they win a title is just not going to happen!

Seriously, does Buffalo receive the exact same amount of shared revenue - almost $188M last season - as New England? Does the salary cap apply differently to Buffalo than New England? Sure, teams with huge local markets and/or ultra-rich owners have an advantage but not like they do in MLB or the NBA. Has Buffalo picked earlier in the draft for the vast majority of the last 15 drafts? Was Buffalo prohibited by the league from selecting Tom Brady with one of the six picks they excercized before pick #199 of the 2000 draft? Were they prohibited from throwing a lot of money at Bill Belichick before he became Cleveland's HC or after he left Cleveland - or from acquiring any other GM or HC?

Detroit is an example of a team with absolute crap management for decades and decades - is that the league's fault in any way? You say you don't believe there's a conspiracy to promote certain teams, so what exactly are you saying?

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

http://spaces.covers.com/blog/MaximumWins/NFL/03042012-Reasons-Why-The-NFL-Is-Fixed-For-Profit.html

That article is garbage and pure conjecture.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I guess it's fair to say that QB play has something to do with that.

Yup. I've said it before and I'll say it again...if you have an elite QB you start at 8-8 and work your way up; if you have a substandard QB you start at 8-8 and work your way down. You can win a division with an average QB and a top drawer defense, but it is very, very difficult.

This is proven week in and week out, year in and year out.

 

[ram29jackson]

Yup. I've said it before and I'll say it again...if you have an elite QB you start at 8-8 and work your way up; if you have a substandard QB you start at 8-8 and work your way down. You can win a division with an average QB and a top drawer defense, but it is very, very difficult.

This is proven week in and week out, year in and year out.

yes, its proven that the league manipulates games to make you believe that crap. Rex Grossman throws 23 TDs and 20 ints and they make it to a SB because their defense is just that good ? bullcrap..no defense can make up for that crap.
same with the Dilfer/ Ravens.

 

[ram29jackson]

That article is garbage and pure conjecture.

no, he is quoting examples that actually happened in games. There is no proof that wrestling is fake but everyone knows it is. The NFL just does it better

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

Do they really? Do they really push for competitive balance? If they did I think we would see more different teams in the playoffs than what we do.... so Buffalo is been at a competitive balance with the Patriots for the last 15 years? Why do we see the same teams in the playoffs year after year? Look at the teams that have played in the Super Bowl. Then look at which areas have the biggest markets for TV. Am I saying they have a conspiracy to promote certain teams? No. But one has to wonder, if it really is a level playing field, why has Dallas been to the Super Bowl 7 times and Detroit 0?

Agreed. Same teams are in the playoffs and conference championship games basically every year. I don't buy any of the conspiracy theories here.

 

[ram29jackson]

Agreed. Same teams are in the playoffs and conference championship games basically every year. I don't buy any of the conspiracy theories here.

yes, the ones that are the major media markets or biggest money makers for the league are the ones that keep making the playoffs more often=simple math=manipulated outcomes. But the league is in fact giving a bone to the other owners with moving the SB around and teams that never sniffed a deep post season in the SB era making the SB. Eagles, Bears Cardinals, saints, Colts, Bucs,seahawks. Last years NFC conf championship was such blatant bull its not even funny

the Saints suck for years..Katrina happens and 4 years later with a rebuilt Dome they are all the sudden the team of destiny....

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

no, he is quoting examples that actually happened in games. There is no proof that wrestling is fake but everyone knows it is. The NFL just does it better

February 10 1989 was the day the facade died, as in front of the State of New Jersey Senate on a bill to remove Wrestling from the regulations that had been applied by the Athletic Commissions, Vince McMahon, representing the World Wrestling Federation, stated that professional wrestling should be defined as "an activity in which participants struggle hand-in-hand primarily for the purpose of providing entertainment to spectators rather than conducting a bona fide athletic contest." With those words, everybody’s suspicions had been confirmed – wrestling was not in fact a legitimate sporting contest. As a result, the bill deregulating professional wrestling passed by a vote of 37 to 1.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...dmits-wrestling-is-predetermined-9461429.html
Except that Vince McMahon under oath in 1989 testified that wrestling is indeed scripted. There is actual fact supporting that point. I'm not disputing the validity of the in game happenings the author detailed. He's conclusions though are thoroughly faulty with very little empirical fact to support it, most of the provided information is circumstantial at best. As for the FBI reports that the author only vaguely references, with no citation links mind you, were conducted in the 80's and found that the Mafia in New York were involved in bribing some refs to fix some games. I'm not contending that games are not or cannot be fixed. I just see little evidence to support the notion that the NFL executives are complicit in the practice. As I said conjectural garbage.

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

Do they really? Do they really push for competitive balance? If they did I think we would see more different teams in the playoffs than what we do.... so Buffalo is been at a competitive balance with the Patriots for the last 15 years? Why do we see the same teams in the playoffs year after year? Look at the teams that have played in the Super Bowl. Then look at which areas have the biggest markets for TV. Am I saying they have a conspiracy to promote certain teams? No. But one has to wonder, if it really is a level playing field, why has Dallas been to the Super Bowl 7 times and Detroit 0?

Because Bobby Layne said so.

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...dmits-wrestling-is-predetermined-9461429.html
Except that Vince McMahon under oath in 1989 testified that wrestling is indeed scripted. There is actual fact supporting that point. I'm not disputing the validity of the in game happenings the author detailed. He's conclusions though are thoroughly faulty with very little empirical fact to support it, most of the provided information is circumstantial at best. As for the FBI reports that the author only vaguely references, with no citation links mind you, were conducted in the 80's and found that the Mafia in New York were involved in bribing some refs to fix some games. I'm not contending that games are not or cannot be fixed. I just see little evidence to support the notion that the NFL executives are complicit in the practice. As I said conjectural garbage.

Don't you know that you can claim anything on the internet and someone will believe it?

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

Don't you know that you can claim anything on the internet and someone will believe it?

As long as the argument itself is compelling enough it doesn't matter if the content creator doesn't valid provide sources.

 

[ram29jackson]

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...dmits-wrestling-is-predetermined-9461429.html
Except that Vince McMahon under oath in 1989 testified that wrestling is indeed scripted. There is actual fact supporting that point. I'm not disputing the validity of the in game happenings the author detailed. He's conclusions though are thoroughly faulty with very little empirical fact to support it, most of the provided information is circumstantial at best. As for the FBI reports that the author only vaguely references, with no citation links mind you, were conducted in the 80's and found that the Mafia in New York were involved in bribing some refs to fix some games. I'm not contending that games are not or cannot be fixed. I just see little evidence to support the notion that the NFL executives are complicit in the practice. As I said conjectural garbage.

and guess what, the mass of stupid people pay millions for wrestling crap still. The NFL has already said the same that they are in fact an entertainment business. At its core you are admitting you don't want to translate what happens in front of your very eyes. When an official makes a call you know is wrong and it happens multiple times in the same game, its not a mistake anymore. It is in fact A premeditated lie. Great, you found something that admits wrestling is a show. No where does that prove that the NFL doesn't manipulate games. You just want to believe those perfect story lines keep manifesting themselves by chance. 2 brothers really can play against each other in a SB when ones only been in the league for 2 years. the Jaguars and panthers really can make it to a conference final at the same time in their second year of existence. The Patriots can have 14 years straight of success because Brady and Belichick are the greatest ever..so great that they can make a conference final with 14 rookies...LOL

yep that's right, the Steelers made it to super bowl 40 with a fat slow old running back and a green *** QB and all the calls that went against Seattle was just a really bad day for them.....

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

As long as the argument itself is compelling enough it doesn't matter if the content creator doesn't valid provide sources.

Very true. I use unsited Wikipedia articles to get most of my facts.

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

and guess what, the mass of stupid people pay millions for wrestling crap still. The NFL has already said the same that they are in fact an entertainment business. At its core you are admitting you don't want to translate what happens in front of your very eyes. When an official makes a call you know is wrong and it happens multiple times in the same game, its not a mistake anymore. It is in fact A premeditated lie. Great, you found something that admits wrestling is a show. No where does that prove that the NFL doesn't manipulate games. You just want to believe those perfect story lines keep manifesting themselves by chance. 2 brothers really can play against each other in a SB when ones only been in the league for 2 years. the Jaguars and panthers really can make it to a conference final at the same time in their second year of existence. The Patriots can have 14 years straight of success because Brady and Belichick are the greatest ever..so great that they can make a conference final with 14 rookies...LOL

yep that's right, the Steelers made it to super bowl 40 with a fat slow old running back and a green *** QB and all the calls that went against Seattle was just a really bad day for them.....

And the fact that Jerramy Stevens dropped like 3 touchdown passes. You are off your rocker on this one.

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

and guess what, the mass of stupid people pay millions for wrestling crap still. The NFL has already said the same that they are in fact an entertainment business. At its core you are admitting you don't want to translate what happens in front of your very eyes. When an official makes a call you know is wrong and it happens multiple times in the same game, its not a mistake anymore. It is in fact A premeditated lie. Great, you found something that admits wrestling is a show. No where does that prove that the NFL doesn't manipulate games. You just want to believe those perfect story lines keep manifesting themselves by chance. 2 brothers really can play against each other in a SB when ones only been in the league for 2 years. the Jaguars and panthers really can make it to a conference final at the same time in their second year of existence. The Patriots can have 14 years straight of success because Brady and Belichick are the greatest ever..so great that they can make a conference final with 14 rookies...LOL

yep that's right, the Steelers made it to super bowl 40 with a fat slow old running back and a green *** QB and all the calls that went against Seattle was just a really bad day for them.....

I don't really want to get into it and detail how the author's argument is based on faulty logic exemplifying "begging the question", or "assuming the initial point", and Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy namely. Or your insistence that a referee making a bad call is doing so willfully, pointedly precluding the possibility of human error or your own personal bias influencing your interpretation is a faulty generalization. It would be more writing and analysis than I care to do.

no, he is quoting examples that actually happened in games. There is no proof that wrestling is fake but everyone knows it is. The NFL just does it better

I wasn't trying to present Mr McMahon's testimony as disproof of the NFL manipulating games. I brought it up because you did first in a thoroughly flippant and dismissive reply. My only reasoning was to pointedly prove that your statement was unsubstantiated and off base with reality.


Moreover I'm interested in knowing something. Were the NFL actually scripting game outcomes and it becomes substantiated common knowledge, what do you want done? What is your purpose for bringing this up?

 

[ram29jackson]

And the fact that Jerramy Stevens dropped like 3 touchdown passes. You are off your rocker on this one.

there is a difference between manipulation and fixing a game. They let the players play and make calls where they need to. ..and don't you mean two because one of them he got the bogus offensive interference call. and even if you can argue that a legit call it was painfully obvious the game was given to the Steelers at every turn.

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

there is a difference between manipulation and fixing a game. They let the players play and make calls where they need to. ..and don't you mean two because one of them he got the bogus offensive interference call. and even if you can argue that a legit call it was painfully obvious the game was given to the Steelers at every turn.

How many aliens did we perform autopsies on at Roswell?

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

How many aliens did we perform autopsies on at Roswell?

Everyone knows that. It's 51, hence Area 51, the government likes to hide things in plain sight.

 

[Dan115]

Cowboys are in the playoffs every year.

 

[AllouezPackerFan]

Everyone knows that. It's 51, hence Area 51, the government likes to hide things in plain sight.

Now that I've been thinking about it....that does make sense.

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

Now that I've been thinking about it....that does make sense.

I hope I didn't scare him away but I think I did. He hasn't touched my post with a 10 foot pole while vigorously replying to you with one liners. xD