Move CB up draft board

[adambr2]

There weren't nearly as many important questions about the 2010 defense. The Packers had the ninth overall pick at DT coming into his second season, as much as people liked to down him, Hawk was a decent ILB in 2009/2010 (better than any ILB on the Packers current roster) and the Packers in 2010 were FAR better in the secondary coming into the season. The questions about the 2010 defense were about your third corner, backup DL and one starting LB (Bishop sort of came out of nowhere). Compare that to 2015 where the questions are about starting corner, backup corner, starting NT and BOTH ILBs.

In 2010 the team had a fairly decent dline (Cullen Jenkins and BJ Raji were playing well by the time the playoffs rolled around). Clay was awesome that year and people forget that Desmond Bishop was PHENOMENAL that year (Bishop had something like 14 tackles, 3 pressures and 8 stops in the NCF Championship and Super Bowl). Most importantly, the Packers had one of the best corner tandems in the NFL with Woodson and Williams and, oh yeah, a guy named Nick Collins at safety. The 2010 team had very good ILBs, strong interior dlinemen and awesome safeties. And Walden only played 180 snaps in 2010 so I'm not sure he mattered a whole bunch.

I'm not attacking your point, I know you said you weren't stating the defense would be good. I just think the 2010 comparison is not even close. The questions are MUCH more important this year than in 2010.

IMO that's way understating the questions there were behind the 2010 defense. Having an undrafted CB as your nickel is a major question mark going into the season. The depth behind him included Underwood, Pat Lee, and Bush. They were starting a 3rd round rookie (Burnett) at SS, and after he immediately went down they had to go with a journeyman backup in Peprah as the starter for the rest of the season.

We have Peppers now, they had no one starting on the opposite side of Matthews then. Those no ones were Brad Jones, Brady Poppinga, and Frank Zombo. They had to sign Erik Walden off the street later in the season. When Barnett went down, Bishop was forced into action with literally 1 previous career start under his belt. Sure, he turned out well, but he was still a complete unknown question mark as to how he would pan out long term.

They were decent on the D-line, but thinner than 2009 after the Jolly suspension. Raji was a beast that year, but many here believe based on recent reports that he can have that kind of resurgence this year. They were so depleted that they had to sign Howard Green off waivers from the Jets, who never played football again after that year.

Probably the biggest X-factor is that that team had Woodson, I grant you. Woodson was still near the top of his game. But that defense had equally as many, if not more question marks than we have right now. Based on the things I posted above, you could argue that they had at some point, question marks at every single position on defense. Maybe not before the season started, but certainly as it evolved -- and they were able to answer those questions. So I do have confidence despite the losses at CB that there is a plan in place to field a competitive defense this year and not simply go through a planned rebuild.

 

[rodell330]

The Patriots just let BOTH their starting corners go so I'm not in panic mode with three solid guys. If our defense was actually good I don't think ppl would be freaking out.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Depth, flexabiliy in match-ups, experience to deal with Capers variations, some speed at ILB and #3 cover corner, and a depleted D-Line that wasn't all that good to begin with. I think that about covers it.

The d-line was missing Raji and as disappointing as he's been I think the line would have been much better with him rotating to NT. I absolutely agree with worrying about a new CB in Caper's system. Our guys haven't even mastered it so I could imagine how hard it would be for a rookie to come in and play. Linebacker will be addressed and I still think something will happen in FA.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The Patriots just let BOTH their starting corners go so I'm not in panic mode with three solid guys. If our defense was actually good I don't think ppl would be freaking out.

Belichick wheels and deals from sun up to sun down. He traded for two guys after the season started to plug holes last season. He changes schemes like most teams change place kickers to fit the personnel he has or can afford. His roster is a constant revolving door.

As for the CB position, at least he has some experienced bench depth. If he doesn't like what he has, he's not shy about making a move.

Any comparison of what the Patriots have or do vs. the Packers is ultimately fruitless. Belichick and Thompson are at opposite poles. The only thing they have in common is a predilection for accumulating and swapping draft picks.

Besides, Belichick just won a Super Bowl. He can spend a year to retool and get the cap back in shape.

The other teams most worthy of the draft-and-develop tag are the Steelers and Ravens and they work the FA market at the margins.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Not a good idea for the Packers to panic and draft a CB high in the draft for a need. It takes time to develop corners so the draft is not going to fix the Packers hole in the secondary in time for next season. Jumal Rolle was cut to make way for Goodson. For better or worse he is the Packers plan B at CB

 

[TeamTundra]

The Patriots just let BOTH their starting corners go so I'm not in panic mode with three solid guys. If our defense was actually good I don't think ppl would be freaking out.

In addition the 49ers let both of their starting CBs leave in free agency.

 

[bozz_2006]

and let two ILBs retire.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

I'll give the Packers one big "kudos" when it comes to corners, they have been excellent at developing non-first round talent into starting caliber players. Tramon Williams and Sam Shields were undrafted, Casey Heyward was second round pick and Davon House was a fourth round pick. Hopefully they have some magic left in developing corners because the defense is short a quality player at a key position right now.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

In addition the 49ers let both of their starting CBs leave in free agency.

Let's not strive to be like the 49er's. They replaced the second or third best coach in the NFL with a guy who seems totally overwhelmed with the job and have lost Patrick Willis, Frank Gore, Mike Iupati with the possibility of Justin Smith retiring all in the same offseason.

San Fran is like a ship lost at sea that's also on fire while stuck in a hurricane.

 

[sjb12681]

As the resident article length post writer, I will defer to the last 6 full length articles on this subject above and keep it short this time.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't feel any better about the Packers defense cause the Niners lost more players than we did. San Feancisco didn't even make the playoffs last season and are currently trending downward, I'd rather worry about teams competing for the NFC crown.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

IMO that's way understating the questions there were behind the 2010 defense. Having an undrafted CB as your nickel is a major question mark going into the season. The depth behind him included Underwood, Pat Lee, and Bush. They were starting a 3rd round rookie (Burnett) at SS, and after he immediately went down they had to go with a journeyman backup in Peprah as the starter for the rest of the season.

We have Peppers now, they had no one starting on the opposite side of Matthews then. Those no ones were Brad Jones, Brady Poppinga, and Frank Zombo. They had to sign Erik Walden off the street later in the season. When Barnett went down, Bishop was forced into action with literally 1 previous career start under his belt. Sure, he turned out well, but he was still a complete unknown question mark as to how he would pan out long term.

They were decent on the D-line, but thinner than 2009 after the Jolly suspension. Raji was a beast that year, but many here believe based on recent reports that he can have that kind of resurgence this year. They were so depleted that they had to sign Howard Green off waivers from the Jets, who never played football again after that year.

Probably the biggest X-factor is that that team had Woodson, I grant you. Woodson was still near the top of his game. But that defense had equally as many, if not more question marks than we have right now. Based on the things I posted above, you could argue that they had at some point, question marks at every single position on defense. Maybe not before the season started, but certainly as it evolved -- and they were able to answer those questions. So I do have confidence despite the losses at CB that there is a plan in place to field a competitive defense this year and not simply go through a planned rebuild.

The dline (most important part of the defense) was light years more settled going into 2010 as compared to this year. I don't care about Howard Green, the Packers went into the season thinking they would have two impact dlineman and another solid lineman in Pickett. This year the Packers have Mike Daniels and....maybe Datone Jones? That's it.

The known factors in the secondary going into 2010 were Charles Woodson (coming off DPOY season), Nick Collins (!) and Tramon Williams...are you really saying that's not much better than HaHa, Burnett, Shields and Hayward? Sure, this year there is one more known factor but in 2010 the Packers knew they had a minimun of TWO all-pro players in the secondary and Williams in 2009 played like a Pro-Bowler...this year there are zero all-pros in the secondary.

Linebackers going into 2010 were a concern, I admitted that. However, in 2010 you had Hawk (fans don't like him but he was steady and known), Matthews and Nick Barnett who most forget had an excellent 2009 before getting injured early in 2010. So the ONLY question at linebacker for the Packers going into 2010 was OLB opposite Matthews. This year the Packers have questions marks at both ILB positions. Couple ILB issues with NT issues and you have a HUGE problem with your defense since defense is supposed to start from the inside-out.

Basically, going into 2010 the defense could count on Jenkins, Woodson, Collins, Barnett and Williams and Matthews to be impact players and Raji's history of underwhelming play wasn't known in 2010 so the team could count on his improvement. It's irrelevant that Barnett go hurt since nobody knew that would happen going into the 2010 season. Going into 2015 the defense can count on Mike Daniels, Matthews and Peppers and of those guys only Matthews has the same defensive impact that people came to expect from Woodson, Matthews and Collins.

 

[adambr2]

The dline (most important part of the defense) was light years more settled going into 2010 as compared to this year. I don't care about Howard Green, the Packers went into the season thinking they would have two impact dlineman and another solid lineman in Pickett. This year the Packers have Mike Daniels and....maybe Datone Jones? That's it.

The known factors in the secondary going into 2010 were Charles Woodson (coming off DPOY season), Nick Collins (!) and Tramon Williams...are you really saying that's not much better than HaHa, Burnett, Shields and Hayward? Sure, this year there is one more known factor but in 2010 the Packers knew they had a minimun of TWO all-pro players in the secondary and Williams in 2009 played like a Pro-Bowler...this year there are zero all-pros in the secondary.

Linebackers going into 2010 were a concern, I admitted that. However, in 2010 you had Hawk (fans don't like him but he was steady and known), Matthews and Nick Barnett who most forget had an excellent 2009 before getting injured early in 2010. So the ONLY question at linebacker for the Packers going into 2010 was OLB opposite Matthews. This year the Packers have questions marks at both ILB positions. Couple ILB issues with NT issues and you have a HUGE problem with your defense since defense is supposed to start from the inside-out.

Basically, going into 2010 the defense could count on Jenkins, Woodson, Collins, Barnett and Williams and Matthews to be impact players and Raji's history of underwhelming play wasn't known in 2010 so the team could count on his improvement. It's irrelevant that Barnett go hurt since nobody knew that would happen going into the 2010 season. Going into 2015 the defense can count on Mike Daniels, Matthews and Peppers and of those guys only Matthews has the same defensive impact that people came to expect from Woodson, Matthews and Collins.

You're missing my points entirely. Yes, they didn't have as many questions going into the season in 2010 on the D. I admitted that myself. I said at some points they had some major questions because of injuries and they were all answered. Just because we didn't know that we would have to replace Barnett, Burnett, etc., and wondering how much Howard Green would be able to help us, doesn't mean we didn't have to answer those questions, and we did, and still won a Super Bowl.

By the way, Burnett's 2014 was just as good as Collins in 2010. So yeah, I would say our safety situation is at least as good going into 2015 as 2010, with a proven entity in Burnett, and a young ascending Clinton-Dix.

Anyway, once again my point was we had major questions in the 2010 defense as the season went on and we were able to find some surprise contributors that did enough to help us win a Super Bowl. I never said that we went into 2010 with more questions on D than we have now, just that I have confidence that the questions we have now will be answered.

 

[rodell330]

and let two ILBs retire.

I wouldn't say let as they really had no choice in the matter... these were decisions made by the individual players health wise.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I wouldn't say let as they really had no choice in the matter... these were decisions made by the individual players health wise.

Actually, "health wise" misrepresents the situations. Willis claims he wants to be more involved in some ministry. The decision was a complete about face from comments just a couple of months ago where he said the surgery would set him up for another 5 years.

Borland has no present health issues; he's making a life decision about the risks of playing tackle football.

 

[rodell330]

Actually, "health wise" misrepresents the situations. Willis claims he wants to be more involved in some ministry. The decision was a complete about face from comments just a couple of months ago where he said the surgery would set him up for another 5 years.

Borland has no present health issues; he's making a life decision about the risks of playing tackle football.

Ok buddy

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Actually, "health wise" misrepresents the situations. Willis claims he wants to be more involved in some ministry. The decision was a complete about face from comments just a couple of months ago where he said the surgery would set him up for another 5 years.

Borland has no present health issues; he's making a life decision about the risks of playing tackle football.

From 49ers.com:

But at 30 years old, Willis said his body, more specifically his feet, could not keep up with the rigors of the NFL.

“You’ve seen me break my hand on Sunday, have surgery on Monday and play on Thursday with a cast on,” Willis said. “But there’s something about these feet. And those are what made me who I am. They had you all saying, ‘Wow, where’d he come from?’
“I know I no longer have it in these feet to go out there and give you guys that kind of ‘Wow.’”

“Honestly, I pay attention to guys when they’re finished playing, walking around like they’ve got no hips and they can’t play with their kids. They can barely walk,” Willis said. “People see that and they feel sorry, but they don’t realize it’s because he played a few extra years.
“For me, there’s more to my life than football. It has provided an amazing platform for me to build on, but it’s my health first..."


Seems like health to me.

 

[Mondio]

Sounds like he has his priorities together too. Good for him

 

[rodell330]

From 49ers.com:

But at 30 years old, Willis said his body, more specifically his feet, could not keep up with the rigors of the NFL.

“You’ve seen me break my hand on Sunday, have surgery on Monday and play on Thursday with a cast on,” Willis said. “But there’s something about these feet. And those are what made me who I am. They had you all saying, ‘Wow, where’d he come from?’
“I know I no longer have it in these feet to go out there and give you guys that kind of ‘Wow.’”

“Honestly, I pay attention to guys when they’re finished playing, walking around like they’ve got no hips and they can’t play with their kids. They can barely walk,” Willis said. “People see that and they feel sorry, but they don’t realize it’s because he played a few extra years.
“For me, there’s more to my life than football. It has provided an amazing platform for me to build on, but it’s my health first..."


Seems like health to me.

After reading this I'll stand by my original statement.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Sounds like he has his priorities together too. Good for him

Willis always struck me as sort of what every fan wanted their football players to be, ferocioius on the field but gentlemen off the field (having said that I'm sure someone will now tell me that Willis did something heinous that I'm unaware of and then I'll feel stupid).

 

[HardRightEdge]

From 49ers.com:

But at 30 years old, Willis said his body, more specifically his feet, could not keep up with the rigors of the NFL.

“You’ve seen me break my hand on Sunday, have surgery on Monday and play on Thursday with a cast on,” Willis said. “But there’s something about these feet. And those are what made me who I am. They had you all saying, ‘Wow, where’d he come from?’
“I know I no longer have it in these feet to go out there and give you guys that kind of ‘Wow.’”

“Honestly, I pay attention to guys when they’re finished playing, walking around like they’ve got no hips and they can’t play with their kids. They can barely walk,” Willis said. “People see that and they feel sorry, but they don’t realize it’s because he played a few extra years.
“For me, there’s more to my life than football. It has provided an amazing platform for me to build on, but it’s my health first..."


Seems like health to me.

That's interesting and I stand corrected. When he first announced the retirement, it about the ministry. Given the frequency with which he changes his story, I believe anything is possible.

 

[rodell330]

That's interesting and I stand corrected. When he first announced the retirement, it about the ministry. Given the frequency with which he changes his story, I believe anything is possible.

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[TeamTundra]

I don't feel any better about the Packers defense cause the Niners lost more players than we did. San Feancisco didn't even make the playoffs last season and are currently trending downward, I'd rather worry about teams competing for the NFC crown.

Well if it makes you guys feel any better, the Seahawks lost 2/5ths of their starting offensive line
When they traded Max Unger and lost James Carpenter to free agency and they don't have a
First round pick. Sure they added Jimmy Graham, but when they struggled at times last year
Their offensive line didn't play well.

Maybe I'm trying to rationalize the loss of both Tramon and House, but I'm thinking we can
Find a solid backup in the draft as well as a starting ILB. I'm more concerned about our NT
Position and will feel better once we fill that position, hopefully through free agency.

 

[rodell330]

Well if it makes you guys feel any better, the Seahawks lost 2/5ths of their starting offensive line
When they traded Max Unger and lost James Carpenter to free agency and they don't have a
First round pick. Sure they added Jimmy Graham, but when they struggled at times last year
Their offensive line didn't play well.

Maybe I'm trying to rationalize the loss of both Tramon and House, but I'm thinking we can
Find a solid backup in the draft as well as a starting ILB. I'm more concerned about our NT
Position and will feel better once we fill that position, hopefully through free agency.

I have a feeling the Sea Hawks are going to be just fine. If you can play defense you're never out of a game. We witnessed that first hand smh.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well if it makes you guys feel any better, the Seahawks lost 2/5ths of their starting offensive line
When they traded Max Unger and lost James Carpenter to free agency and they don't have a
First round pick. Sure they added Jimmy Graham, but when they struggled at times last year
Their offensive line didn't play well.

The Seahawks offensive line seems to be a complete mess going into the draft. But they went to two consecutive Super Bowl with a shaky line so we'll have to see how that works out for them.

Maybe I'm trying to rationalize the loss of both Tramon and House, but I'm thinking we can
Find a solid backup in the draft as well as a starting ILB. I'm more concerned about our NT
Position and will feel better once we fill that position, hopefully through free agency.

I agree that we probably should be fine adding a reliable backup who's able to play in the dime package at CB.

We need to add at least two players apiece at NT and ILB, preferably a veteran and an early draft pick at both positions.