Move CB up draft board

Status
Not open for further replies.

Vrill

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Messages
1,803
Reaction score
137
We'll be fine. Remember, our defense just needs to be middle of the pack. It doesn't need to be a dominating defense by any means. Just good enough to get Rodgers and our O 2-3 extra possessions per game.

I have faith that we aren't done in FA yet. I also have faith that we'll draft what we need.

The defense we put on the field in 2015 will not be the worst Packer defense we have seen. I'll bet the farm on that. I think it'll be an above average defense that does "good enough" to get by. Honestly, that is all we need anyway.

I think our elite Safety tandem will cover up some deficiencies too. I love Dix and Burnett.
 

Mondio

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 20, 2014
Messages
15,893
Reaction score
3,795
we have the draft, we have FA yet, we have camp cuts. There's a lot of time yet before the season is here. I'm confident at least one very good starter will come from the draft at any of our need positions
 
D

Deleted member 6794

Guest
we have the draft, we have FA yet, we have camp cuts. There's a lot of time yet before the season is here. I'm confident at least one very good starter will come from the draft at any of our need positions

The problem is that the defense is lacking up to four quality starters as of now.
 

bozz_2006

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,576
Reaction score
283
Location
Grand Forks, ND
We're in absolute desperate need to add two ILBs. After losing Williams we need to add another CB in the draft early even if Hayward ends up being the starter outside as Demetri Goodson would be the dime corner as of now. NT has to be addressed as well.

And we're assuming it will not be addressed, or what?

We need ILB, I agree. But I can't imagine cutting dead weight leaves us any worse off at ILB than we were last year. Relax guys.
 

Darth Garfunkel

Cheesehead
Joined
Dec 26, 2010
Messages
563
Reaction score
228
Location
denver
I was hoping they'd get Williams signed but 7 Million a year? No way.

Per ESPN. emphasis added:
"Opposing quarterbacks had a passer rating of 106.5 when targeting Williams last season, according to PFF. That number had never been higher than 85 in Williams' first seven seasons. He also allowed completions on 63.6 percent of the passes thrown his way, which also was the highest percentage of his career."

That's a pretty big drop in production to fork over 7 Mill for.


http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/p...overpaying-to-keep-tramon-williams?src=mobile
 

bigbubbatd

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 11, 2015
Messages
1,679
Reaction score
166
Exactly bozz. Not sure it would take much to improve on Hawk and Jones. They were brutal last tear. If we end up using Clay more at ILB that is fine. He and Barrington would be more than adequate. We need a NT or 2, some depth at ILB and a cb. we have a draft coming up that can focus almost exclusively on defense since we are in grear shape on offense.
 

bozz_2006

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,576
Reaction score
283
Location
Grand Forks, ND
Thanks bubba. I am pretty comfortable with the expectation that we will easily re-sign Raji and Guion. Bye bye Brad Jones, Hawk, even Tramon. I'm not going to freak out over cutting ties with (not "losing") guys who can't quite do the job. There are a ton of cheap guys "who can't quite do the job" just as well as Hawk and Tramon. And they can be had for a fraction of what Hawk and Tramon are getting paid next year. I'd rather sign cheaper guys who can't quite do the job, keep looking for guys who can do the job, and actually have the money to sign them when we do find them.
 
Last edited:

Carl

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 6, 2013
Messages
3,073
Reaction score
272
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
2 ILBs, at least one cover corner, a nose tackle, and a DE who can play base run D and swing to NT.

That's 5, not 2.

The Packers have not drafted well on defense for several years now. There's no bench strength to draw upon except the #3 safety and serviceable backup OLBs, which don't happen to be the positions that were problems at the start of FA and continue to today.

Backing and filling is one thing; rebuilding on the fly is quite another.

I'll repeat my comment that drew so many disagrees before Williams signed with Cleveland...Thompson better have one h*ll of a draft.

At DE Daniels looked like an stud at times and Datone was solid. He wasn't flashy, but a 3-4 DE doesn't have to be. DE is not big need. Some depth would be nice, but that can be said about almost any position.

At CB, we are still three deep assuming Hyde jumps back to the position. Yes, Hyde and Hayward have only played inside, but I see no reason they cannot make a transition outside. Good players can find a way to make the field. Hyde's one of those guys that always seems to make plays no matter where he is.

I'll agree that ILB is a big need, but let's not assume that Barrington cannot fill that role. Also, we had two terrible starters most of the year and still had a solid defense by the end of the season. Won't take much to upgrade at ILB.

Plus, you're still forgetting that free agency isn't over yet. The draft is still 6 weeks away. NT can be fine just by resigning Guion.

The bottom line is yes, we have some needs, but it's not near a rebuilding. We'll probably end up with a weak position or two, and that will be just like every team in the league.
 

sschind

Cheesehead
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
4,969
Reaction score
1,244
The problem is that the defense is lacking up to four quality starters as of now.

According to most people Jones and Hawk sucked so bad the defense got better simply by letting them go. It shouldn['t be too hard to find some bottom of the barrel free agents who would be better I'd hardly call them quality starters. Raji was not a starter lat year and even so he might be back as could Guion. House was a backup so that leaves Williams as the lone quality starter.

I know what you are saying, we do need to replace a lot of guys but if Packer fans are any judge of talent it shouldn't be too hard to replace the guys we lost.
 

Carl

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 6, 2013
Messages
3,073
Reaction score
272
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
Tbh, that's a really bad way of managing your team. An injury in a thin position would derail the season.

Value in the market as a general principle is laudable, but stretching it too far to become a liability even for a single season is not good management. More so when we are 'thin' in multiple areas.

Every team in the league has a weak position or two.

And outside of QB, it's unlikely an injury at a position would derail a season.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
The problem is that the defense is lacking up to four quality starters as of now.
I count five. Datone Jones is poor against the run and only adequate rushing the passer. I would not classify him as "quality".
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
We'll be fine. Remember, our defense just needs to be middle of the pack. It doesn't need to be a dominating defense by any means. Just good enough to get Rodgers and our O 2-3 extra possessions per game.

I have faith that we aren't done in FA yet. I also have faith that we'll draft what we need.

The defense we put on the field in 2015 will not be the worst Packer defense we have seen. I'll bet the farm on that. I think it'll be an above average defense that does "good enough" to get by. Honestly, that is all we need anyway.

I think our elite Safety tandem will cover up some deficiencies too. I love Dix and Burnett.
"All we need" for what, exactly?
 

Joe Nor Cal Packer

Cheesehead
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
535
Reaction score
30
Location
Danville, California
I guess we may as well call the season off and get ready for 2016 since we lost Tramon, huh? Bump that!! I am confident that the D WILL be better next year and that's not sunshine pumping. I have said for a while now that 29 can and should be playing outside and now it looks like we will get to see what he can do. He has a nose for the ball (nobody can argue that), isn't afraid to tackle and has more than enough athleticism to play the position. I can't believe that Tramon at 32 is better than Casey regardless of the "he's a slot corner" argument. I look at it this way. I rode bikes for years and have not rode one in years now. I feel confident I could get on one tomorrow and feel pretty comfortable after a few blocks. This may sound silly but bare with me. Casey played outside corner his whole life until he came to GB and the only reason he played slot is because that was his only option to get on the field. He isn't some green pea about to move from WR to CB or something. Yes, there will be a little bit of an adjustment process but that's why there are practices and pre-season games. I have FULL confidence he is going to play at a very high level and end up with 7-8 picks by the end. Here is what Mayock had to say about him after the 2012 draft:

DRAFT ANALYSIS:
Mayock's take: "He's one of the most instinctive corners in this draft. After Morris Claiborne, Hayward has the best ball skills of any of the corners in this draft. I love this pick for the Packers."

Say what you will about MM but he does know football and the first part of his comment is what I rest my argument on. Instincts. 29 has a nose for the ball and isn't some old, crafty dead-legged vet who has to rely on angles to get to the right spot. He has a combination of both ball skills and athleticism that at-long-last will get to be fully displayed this next season. Relax folks, we are better off than you think.

Onto the ILB position where I say we just keep Clay there for now. We have guys that can rush the passer and I think we can actually be better there next year so long as we get Raji and Guion back plus maybe a Jordan Phillips type via the draft. We obviously need depth there and that IS where the draft comes in. We should go and get a DT and ILB in the first 2 rounds and there you go. I have said all along that I believe in Sam B so if need be let's keep 52 back there with him and if the draft pick or either Crawford (who I still have hope for) or Joe Thomas can step up even better. I do agree about the depth issues but that's going to be the case at some position for every team every year. You simply can't have a bevy of talent at every single position and that's why IMO a certain amount of luck goes into making a Super Bowl run. You need a few good breaks (pun?) to go your way injury wise if you are going to make a run because of the depth issues. As I said, every team has deficiencies and it's just a matter of whether or not a key injury highlights said deficiency.

General Managers have to spend wisely and while I would've liked to see 38 back there is no way in hell is 7M/year worthy at this point in his career. We got 18 and 75 back and that's fantastic. We have some other guys coming up for paydays pretty soon as well so spending stupid money on an aging investment just doesn't make sense. As I stated earlier I just don't believe that Tramon will be better than Casey in 2015. I honestly just don't see that. We will all see soon enough but I am enjoying the off-season and still have full faith and confidence that we are going to have one helluva team to root for next year and be there in the end when the dust settles. There are always going to be folks on both sides of the fence and if there weren't think of how boring this forum would be?!?! Have a great one and as always G P G!!
For what it's worth I like your analysis and attitude. No one on this thread would say Williams is worth $7 mil a year and House $6 mil plus. What choice did TT have but to let them walk? I'm a little worried. Not about the division but how deep we go in January, and February! In this case there are some options. But whatever D we field, they better stay hea
Williams is already in decline; he's lost a step on the deep ball. I would've liked him back; he could still, if used properly, been a very effective stop gap for next season.
But for what Cleveland gave him? Just didn't make sense for Green Bay.
Well put.
 

Carl

Cheesehead
Joined
Nov 6, 2013
Messages
3,073
Reaction score
272
Location
Madison, Wisconsin
I count five. Datone Jones is poor against the run and only adequate rushing the passer. I would not classify him as "quality".

If you judge him by something he's not required to do, of course he won't be counted as quality.

A 3-4 DE's role isn't to rush to the passer. He has to hold the point of attack and get up the field some. I thought Datone did a good job of that.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
And we're assuming it will not be addressed, or what?

We need ILB, I agree. But I can't imagine cutting dead weight leaves us any worse off at ILB than we were last year. Relax guys.
Being "not any worse off" doesn't cut it.
 

bozz_2006

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Messages
4,576
Reaction score
283
Location
Grand Forks, ND
I'm not saying it "cuts it". I'm saying that it doesn't make sense to cry about Tramon or Hawk or House or Jones. Because they don't cut it either.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
If you judge him by something he's not required to do, of course he won't be counted as quality.

A 3-4 DE's role isn't to rush to the passer. He has to hold the point attack and get up the field some. I thought Datone did a good job of that.
Jones stinks against the run. Peppers plays on his side which might make him look better to you than he is.

As noted, he's an adequate pass rusher. And he is asked to do it. The Packers play nickel 2/3 of the time where the DE should be able to move inside to pass rush. 1st. round picks should be 3-down players, not rotational guys.

To state the obvious, the opponent does not give you their play in advance. Just because you're lined up in base doesn't mean they won't throw the ball....1st. and 10, 2nd. and 3, etc.

Besides, if you're going take the field with less than distinguished ILBs, you better get better run D out of the front than Jones can supply.

I'm convinced if Guion and Raji were on the roster, Jones wouldn't see many snaps at base DE.
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
I'm not saying it "cuts it". I'm saying that it doesn't make sense to cry about Tramon or Hawk or House or Jones. Because they don't cut it either.
Be that as it may, the guys currently on the roster will be worse on inexperience alone, if not on the basis of talent.
 

AKCheese

Cheesehead
Joined
Mar 11, 2014
Messages
2,326
Reaction score
733
Everybody here wanted Hawk and Jones gone....so they're gone....no loss. Should be able to pick up a street guy with no fall off. I think we'll see Raji at nose sharing time with Guion once his suspension is up.....net upgrade there. Yup....lost 2 cornerbacks, a decent starter and a quality backup. THATS the big emergency? A team that was a huge self inflicted wound/choke for the ages from the Super Bowl and our panic is we let a couple weak links go, and lost a starting CB? Gotta say I don't see this as "that bad", I don't think we lost ground to either Sea it NE. A) there are still players to bring in....look at the role Guion played last year B) there's this thing called "the draft" coming up..... Should find a couple contributors there
 
H

HardRightEdge

Guest
Are you actually arguing it could get worse than Brad Jones?:confused:
Clearly, that's not what I said. You mentioned 4 players. Collectively, the defense is worse with the replacements currently on the roster. Jones was relegated to spot duty after Barrington stepped in, and is thereby an irrelevancy.

Again, it better be one h*ll of a draft.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Latest posts

Top