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MM: Cobb Still the Return Man...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by HardRightEdge, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    ...if the season started today. I thought Franklin would make his case in this area. Green looks like he should be a KO guy, but isn't. Ross was thought to be in the hunt for punts, but how reliable is he?

    Early returns on Franklin is that he's not much of blocker either. Maybe we're premature in penning him in for a roster spot. Yeah, he's the fresh face from an upper round, but is he showing anything?
     
  2. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    I wouldn't consider the 4th round one of the "upper rounds," but I agree folks are premature penning most people for a roster spot.
     
  3. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Why was I thinking Franklin was a 3rd. rounder? In that case, cut him. ;)

    Realistically, there are about 40 guys who are locks or near locks for the roster barring injury...or IR. :eek:
     
  4. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Whether he's third or fourth round, I think that Franklin has a better than average chance of making the roster. While he hasn't impressed much beyond his running skills, it's some of what I expect from a mid-round selection. He's relying on his pure instincts as a RB but also displaying some of the reason why he's a mid-round pick. I tend to think that these guys need extra time to adjust and learn the pro game.
     
  5. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Are we seriously questioning Ross`s ability because of one fluffed return ? Everybody makes mistakes surely ?
     
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  6. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    Keeping such a key offensive weapon on kick off returns is a STUPID idea. He got laid out several times last year, luckily not getting hurt. Cobb is a great player who wants to be the play maker, but on kick offs he does not know when to wave for the fair catch. It's only a matter of time before we will lose him to some speedster ripping his head off because he didn't wave off the kick return. We DON'T need him hurt. Put some guy off the shelf on for kick offs and punt returns, hell knows Cobb isnt the only speedy/elusive guy we have. With the way the injury bug loves to crawl up the butt of the packers team, we cannot afford to lose Cobb.
     
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  7. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Can we blow the dust off Roell Preston and stick him back there? :D

    My tongue-in-cheek comment is poking fun at MM's notion that extra return yardage and 3 career return touchdowns carry more weight than losing your top receiver from 2012 (if he gets injured).
     
  8. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Returners getting hurt is such a rarity, How many times in the past decade do you remember the player returning the ball getting hurt for the packers?

    I used to worry all the time about Woodson getting hurt returning, then I realized its such a slim chance, he's just as likely to be hurt playing his traditional position.
     
  9. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I was before camp. McCarthy is questioning him now.

    It's not just the fluffed punt, though that's a big part of it. Having been a punt returner, I can say what you want to look for is a guy who fields the ball like a good outfielder making a routine catch. You want to see glide, looseness, ease in tracking the ball and soft hands. Tenseness at the point of the catch is deadly. This requires some fearlessness. I don't know how else to say this, but when I watch Ross settle under the ball his look makes me nervous. Just not natural enough. After the catch he looks like he has some good stuff going on, but Job #1 is don't drop it.

    This is not to say I endorse Cobb's continued work returning kicks...that's a risky proposition. But there needs to be a solid alternative.
     
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  10. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    Sorry ivo, with our poor luck and the injury bug, I personally wouldn't take the "slight" chance. He did, and if you watched which Im sure you did, take some decent licks while trying to make something happen when he should have waved off the kick. There were several times that I cringed and thought he wasnt gunna get up. That DOES NOT need to happen to us. He is not replaceable by any means.
     
  11. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    For those of you with short memories, Cobb injured his ankle on a punt return last season:

    http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2012/12/23/randall-cobb-leaves-with-ankle-injury/

    Besides going out of that game, he was out for the following game, the season finale against the Vikes, with the same ankle injury.

    Cobb is particularly at risk in the punt game because of the law of averages...he returns more and fair catches/lets roll less than most returners...11th. in the league last year with 31 punts returned.

    There's probably more risk in running 60 routes into zone over the middle than in returning 30 punts, but the risk per play in the punt game is pretty high.
     
  12. peteralan71

    peteralan71 Cheesehead

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    Bulaga was saying recently how great Franklin is at blocking and how tough he is... And other reports I have read from camp talk about how good Franklin is not only at bouncing outside but picking the the yards through the middle and getting to the second level.

    I think he will play a big roll this year, whereas it sounds like Lacy is still learning our blocking scheme (zone-block, as opposed to drive-block which is what he did at Alabama).
     
  13. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Has Thompson ever cut one of his fourth round picks in their first year?
     
  14. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Jeremy Thompson?
     
  15. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    I think he was with the Packers for 2008 and part of 2009. I wasn't sure when I made my post but I just don't see him cutting a 4th rounder.
     
  16. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Thompson played two years with the Packers before being released. Were they related?
     
  17. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I don't want Cobb returning KOs or punts but I wouldn't go as far as Oshkosh and call it stupid because he's most likely the best returner. Also,
    I hope you meant PRs. :D

    I'd rather Cobb returning KOs or punts be saved for very special occasions and not be regular duty for him.

    And IMO Franklin is very close to being a lock. Even if he's "only" a talented runner his fourth round status gets him at least a season.
     
  18. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Didnt see the 1st year part
     
  19. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    :tup:
     
  20. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Should we limit him going across the middle too? I feel that's just as likely if not more likely to get him injured.

    This is pro ftball, not powderpuff. This myth that returners are at a high risk to get hurt is unsubstantiated.
     
  21. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Agreed. Just a couple of players injured returning kicks are Dez Bryant, Cowboys; Justin Miller, Jets; Marc Mariani, Titans; and Clifton Smith Tampa Bay. There's probably more that could be added to this list. There are others who got racked up and were out several weeks.

    We're looking at Cobb to take over for Jennings. I'd just as soon not see him out there returning kicks. You can't say there isn't a greater chance of him incurring an injury if he's doing both.
     
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  22. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    What happens when you don't use your best returner?

    Obviously some people on this forum have already forgotten about the SF game where Ross muff'd a punt and cobb had to fill in.

    A couple people have been injured in the nfl over the course of thousands of plays? Shocking. I mean mind blowing

    The only argument for Cobb not returning this season should be not tiring him out with those plays.
     
  23. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Better yet...how about when Ted Ginn went down and his fill-in Williams had two punt return fumbles in that 2011 playoff game. It's hard not to say those plays cost them the game, and a legit shot at a SB title.

    But that's not an argument for Cobb. It's an argument for a punt returner who lives up to Job #1...don't fumble.

    40 punt returns in a season are a lot after you throw out touchbacks, downs, out of bounds, fair catches. That's 2.5 returns per game. The difference between a good returner vs. a mediocre one is maybe 4 yds. per return (say, 12 yds, vs. 8 yds.). That works out to a 10 yard field position difference per game. The risk / reward equation doesn't argue for the good returner if he has starter value.

    What these numbers do say is a mediocre returner without starter value who executes Job #1..."don't fumble"...is perfectly adequate. One lost fumble costs about 40 yds, in field position (or worse if there's a scoop and run), wiping out several games of good work. These fumbles also have the nasty habit of being momentum shifters...scores frequently follow.

    We just have to find a guy who meets those minimum qualifications (sure handed, mediocre runner). If we don't, then Cobb it will be. But the obvious risks go unmitigated.
     
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  24. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    Indeed I meant PR, my hands go faster on the keyboard than my brain tells them to. lol
     
  25. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

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    I agree with what most of you are saying and giving many valid points as to why cobb shoudn't be fieldings punts and KR's.
     

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