MLF O Scheme vs WR talent

[kevans74]

not taking anything away from Davante obviously , but do we really "need" a "superstar" WR for this O to run well?

AR still throws and makes the decisions, do we really need a superstar WR? .

I'm guessing we sign Julio Jones, attempt to trade for DK(but not sure he is needed for our scheme) and draft 2 WRs

is AJ Green available?


I'm not sure we even need burners(like MVS), just smart guys who can run good routes and CATCH the football. And be willing blockers

 

[ARPackFan]

Or you could just ask in this thread that's already started...

https://www.packerforum.com/threads/wide-receiver-options.84602/page-3#post-953335

 

[milani]

not taking anything away from Davante obviously , but do we really "need" a "superstar" WR for this O to run well?

AR still throws and makes the decisions, do we really need a superstar WR? .

I'm guessing we sign Julio Jones, attempt to trade for DK(but not sure he is needed for our scheme) and draft 2 WRs

is AJ Green available?


I'm not sure we even need burners(like MVS), just smart guys who can run good routes and CATCH the football. And be willing blockers

I think you need enough speed to pose that deep threat and force teams to pay attention to it. But those shots down the field do not have to come left and right. Rodgers used to hit Jordy Nelson deep fairly often but that was precipitated by who teams had to cover underneath. Early in the year Rodgers missed MVS a number of times. He hit him for the big one when we went into Minneapolis. But how often was he targeted over the year.

 

[tynimiller]

not taking anything away from Davante obviously , but do we really "need" a "superstar" WR for this O to run well?

AR still throws and makes the decisions, do we really need a superstar WR? .

I'm guessing we sign Julio Jones, attempt to trade for DK(but not sure he is needed for our scheme) and draft 2 WRs

is AJ Green available?


I'm not sure we even need burners(like MVS), just smart guys who can run good routes and CATCH the football. And be willing blockers

Stop making new threads for similar and sometimes same discussion topics already in existence.

 

[McKnowledge]

not taking anything away from Davante obviously , but do we really "need" a "superstar" WR for this O to run well?

AR still throws and makes the decisions, do we really need a superstar WR? .

I'm guessing we sign Julio Jones, attempt to trade for DK(but not sure he is needed for our scheme) and draft 2 WRs

is AJ Green available?


I'm not sure we even need burners(like MVS), just smart guys who can run good routes and CATCH the football. And be willing blockers

For this scheme and "vision", I would imagine you need a focal point at the receiving position.

Receivers that are adept at all required skills from the position, but lack the athleticism, are "glue guys". They are vital to the success of the offense.

However, receivers that generate big plays and are able to do these thigs consistently, allows the scheme to remain a construct and not the crutch.

When you depend on scheme to get you out of situations imposed by the defense, a lack of a big playmaking receiver will stifle the offense (ex. Patriots).

Huge chunk plays, whether via play-action or shotgun, creates points; it can be the endgame.

Scheme is the lubricant that greases the wheels of the gameplan, it keeps things moving; creates a rhythm.

You may be able to get away without utilizing a top notch WR threat, but clearly, elite catchers make things easier for the scheme and offensive philosophy.

I would imagine one of the reasons MLF became HC of GB, was the greatness of Davante Adams, and the opportunities he presented for others.

The gravity an elite receiver (i.e. Metcalf) generates allows other receivers the opportunity for catches and yards, maintaining rhythm.

Rodgers didn't lean on the other receivers for whatever reason.

Missing throws or ignoring other receivers constantly stalled promising drives.

Regardless of future additions to the WR room, Rodgers really needs to adjust course, and show more trust.

 

[realitybytez]

Rodgers really needs to adjust course, and show more trust.

he's not going to have any other choice this year.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think you need enough speed to pose that deep threat and force teams to pay attention to it. But those shots down the field do not have to come left and right. Rodgers used to hit Jordy Nelson deep fairly often but that was precipitated by who teams had to cover underneath. Early in the year Rodgers missed MVS a number of times. He hit him for the big one when we went into Minneapolis. But how often was he targeted over the year.

MVS was targeted a total of 55 times in 11 games last season. I don't think a one-trick pony who is a #3 receiver at best should be thrown to more often than an average of five times per game.

Rodgers didn't lean on the other receivers for whatever reason.

Missing throws or ignoring other receivers constantly stalled promising drives.

Regardless of future additions to the WR room, Rodgers really needs to adjust course, and show more trust.

The other receivers lacking talent is the main reason Rodgers didn't target them more often. Of course he missed them being open from time to time but it's ridiculous to suggest he threw to his first read on the majority of attempts.

he's not going to have any other choice this year.

I predict Rodgers will just throw it into the dirt more often than trust any new receivers. He's that stubborn

 

[McKnowledge]

The other receivers lacking talent is the main reason Rodgers didn't target them more often. Of course he missed them being open from time to time but it's ridiculous to suggest he threw to his first read on the majority of attempts.

Uh...there some video that would definitely contradict your statement.

 

[milani]

MVS was targeted a total of 55 times in 11 games last season. I don't think a one-trick pony who is a #3 receiver at best should be thrown to more often than an average of five times per game.



The other receivers lacking talent is the main reason Rodgers didn't target them more often. Of course he missed them being open from time to time but it's ridiculous to suggest he threw to his first read on the majority of attempts.



I predict Rodgers will just throw it into the dirt more often than trust any new receivers. He's that stubborn

So who did Rodgers target long in those 5 games MVS was absent?

 

[tynimiller]

MVS had grown into more than a one trick pony with one route like when he came out. That isn’t a claim he was a well rounded WR that will be a teams clear 2 but some folks hate on MVS just to hate

 

[kevans74]

You guys are right about MVS, but its not like Davante is a "burner" either.

Point of my thread, is that you don't need a speedster in MLFs offense

 

[OldSchool101]

MVS had grown into more than a one trick pony with one route like when he came out. That isn’t a claim he was a well rounded WR that will be a teams clear 2 but some folks hate on MVS just to hate

MVS has a more narrow field area of success. His claim to fame a the go route (in some capacity) In most cases he has to be over the top to win. That’s where his long speed is best displayed.

The other thing he needs is an “elite level QB” who has a long arm with accuracy. Fortunately he’s heading to KC. I have no issue with him he’s a good guy but I’m just calling it like it is. He’s definitely a major downgrade from Hill, who wins all over the field.

To me he’s not worth 10M+ annual. Because he was already learned in our system I have him at 7.5M annual. In learning a new system maybe 5-7M/yr range on a 3-4 year deal.
I’m glad we didn’t pay that money for him, but I understand it’s a hot market and WR is jusT going nutzo.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The most important element at receiver isn't having one super-elite guy, it's having 2 or more good receivers (above average). During the regular season you can get away with having one elite guy and then a bunch of m'eh but in the playoffs, against teams with good defenses, it's too easy for the defense to focus on that ONE guy. The Packers currently have a few m'eh guys and nobody I would consider above average. Without a trade it's going to be real tough to get two rookies that will become above average receivers by playoff time.

Scheme will help, especially with a good coach like MLF, but scheme can only do so much when the offense is relying entirely on smoke-and-mirrors to get subpar receivers the ball.

 

[BrokenArrow]

The other receivers lacking talent is the main reason Rodgers didn't target them more often. Of course he missed them being open from time to time but it's ridiculous to suggest he threw to his first read on the majority of attempts.

Logic might suggest that, but the tape indicates otherwise.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Uh...there some video that would definitely contradict your statement.

As I have mentioned repeatedly there's no doubt Rodgers missed some open receivers while throwing it to his first read.

But it's ludicrous to suggest he wasn't the most efficient quarterback in the league over the past two seasons.

MVS had grown into more than a one trick pony with one route like when he came out. That isn’t a claim he was a well rounded WR that will be a teams clear 2 but some folks hate on MVS just to hate

There's no hate for MVS from my side at all. I'm glad the Packers didn't pay him $10 million a season to retain him though.

Logic might suggest that, but the tape indicates otherwise.

If you watch Rodgers' entire tape of the 2020 and '21 season it would show that he was the best quarterback in the league.

Of course you're solely interested in the plays he missed an open receiver which definitely has happened from time to time. Still less than with other quarterbacks in the league.

 

[kevans74]

The most important element at receiver isn't having one super-elite guy, it's having 2 or more good receivers (above average). During the regular season you can get away with having one elite guy and then a bunch of m'eh but in the playoffs, against teams with good defenses, it's too easy for the defense to focus on that ONE guy. The Packers currently have a few m'eh guys and nobody I would consider above average. Without a trade it's going to be real tough to get two rookies that will become above average receivers by playoff time.

Scheme will help, especially with a good coach like MLF, but scheme can only do so much when the offense is relying entirely on smoke-and-mirrors to get subpar receivers the ball.

Totally, this is especially true with MLFs scheme

 

[McKnowledge]

As I have mentioned repeatedly there's no doubt Rodgers missed some open receivers while throwing it to his first read.

But it's ludicrous to suggest he wasn't the most efficient quarterback in the league over the past two seasons.

Absolutely nobody:

CaptainWIMM:
Let me bring up something out the blue so I won't admit I was wrong.

 

[tynimiller]

Absolutely nobody:

CaptainWIMM:
Let me bring up something out the blue so I won't admit I was wrong.

You giving someone crap for not admitting being wrong is the richest thing I've read in a long time here....

FTR I do concur/agree with you however in this instance about Rodgers for the most part.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

CaptainWIMM:
Let me bring up something out the blue so I won't admit I was wrong.

Please tell me what I was wrong about. I have mentioned on numerous occasions that Rodgers is far from perfect but some of you need to realize that he has been better than all other quarterbacks in the league over the past two seasons. Some of you act like he struggled mightily in 2020 and '21 because he missed some open receivers from time to time.

 

[ARPackFan]

The most important element at receiver isn't having one super-elite guy, it's having 2 or more good receivers (above average). During the regular season you can get away with having one elite guy and then a bunch of m'eh but in the playoffs, against teams with good defenses, it's too easy for the defense to focus on that ONE guy. The Packers currently have a few m'eh guys and nobody I would consider above average. Without a trade it's going to be real tough to get two rookies that will become above average receivers by playoff time.

Scheme will help, especially with a good coach like MLF, but scheme can only do so much when the offense is relying entirely on smoke-and-mirrors to get subpar receivers the ball.

Completely agree. Schemes and creative route concepts can elevate a receiving group but at some point a well coached opposing defense with good/great players is going to cancel those advantages out. That's the point where exceptional play by a great player is needed to get a win. A good scheme is just having a good plan and as a wise man (Mike Tyson) once said - "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

 

[milani]

As I have mentioned repeatedly there's no doubt Rodgers missed some open receivers while throwing it to his first read.

But it's ludicrous to suggest he wasn't the most efficient quarterback in the league over the past two seasons.



There's no hate for MVS from my side at all. I'm glad the Packers didn't pay him $10 million a season to retain him though.



If you watch Rodgers' entire tape of the 2020 and '21 season it would show that he was the best quarterback in the league.

Of course you're solely interested in the plays he missed an open receiver which definitely has happened from time to time. Still less than with other quarterbacks in the league.

I just think MVS tends to be vulnerable to that hamstring bug. Not that he is the only receiver in the league that is. I would not have paid him 10 mill either.

 

[BrokenArrow]

If you watch Rodgers' entire tape of the 2020 and '21 season it would show that he was the best quarterback in the league.

Of course you're solely interested in the plays he missed an open receiver which definitely has happened from time to time. Still less than with other quarterbacks in the league.

Never mind. You keep talking about "efficiency" and such, which is basically another way of saying "passer rating." I don't care about that crap. When it matters most, he consistently fails.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

A good scheme is just having a good plan and as a wise man (Mike Tyson) once said - "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

I never expected to hear anyone consider Mike Tyson a wise man.

Never mind. You keep talking about "efficiency" and such, which is basically another way of saying "passer rating." I don't care about that crap.

I'm well aware that you don't care about Rodgers being the most efficient quarterback in the league but solely that he hasn't won another Super Bowl since 2010. While he's partly responsible for it as well the majority of the blame should be assigned to others.

 

[McKnowledge]

Please tell me what I was wrong about. I have mentioned on numerous occasions that Rodgers is far from perfect but some of you need to realize that he has been better than all other quarterbacks in the league over the past two seasons. Some of you act like he struggled mightily in 2020 and '21 because he missed some open receivers from time to time.

I was replying to this statement made by you...

"But it's ludicrous to suggest he wasn't the most efficient quarterback in the league over the past two seasons"
-captainWIMM

I was just pointing out that I never thought, wrote, or advocated for Rodgers being inefficient as a passer.

I think he had tunnel vision when it came to Davante Adams. The team suffered from it, especially in the biggest moments.

 

[tynimiller]

MLF on need for speed in the WR room.

"If you look at our roster right now, we definitely need to get some speed in that room," LaFleur said. "We need a legit guy that can take off the top of the coverage. We lost a guy that was pretty good at doing that. It's like putting a puzzle together. You've got to find those pieces that you're missing and put it all together."