MLF O Scheme vs WR talent

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MLF on need for speed in the WR room.
Honestly, I think speed is the least of their worries in the WR room, for now. What they actually need is some talent and experience. Take Cobb and Lazard out of the stats and the 5 other WR's on the roster (Rodgers, Taylor, Winfree, Blair and Gafford) combine for the following stats:

Targets: 34
Receptions: 21
Yards: 249
TD's: 2
 

tynimiller

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Honestly, I think speed is the least of their worries in the WR room, for now. What they actually need is some talent and experience. Take Cobb and Lazard out of the stats and the 5 other WR's on the roster (Rodgers, Taylor, Winfree, Blair and Gafford) combine for the following stats:

Targets: 34
Receptions: 21
Yards: 249
TD's: 2

LOL You're running too far with what he said. Regardless of experience, just looking at the types of players inside the WR they are void entirely of any player that will threaten the top of the defense is what he was speaking to. He isn't saying they don't need better WR overall and/or additional pieces - he was merely speaking to directly speed in that moment.

I posted it because some on the board have said that speed threat that MVS brought to the offense isn't even necessary...I push back quite ******* that.
 
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I know this isn’t comforting to you guys, but I like Malik, I think he could pick it up a notch if he’s given a bigger role this season.
Kinda in the mold of a Geronimo type.
 

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I know this isn’t comforting to you guys, but I like Malik, I think he could pick it up a notch if he’s given a bigger role this season.
Kinda in the mold of a Geronimo type.

Malik has been on the cusp of the roster many times. He is familiar with Rodgers so he 100% of anyone not named Cobb/Lazard/Amari with a shot.

Winfree showed out flashes some last year too...but I am hoping we won't have a spot realistically for either come FA moves and draft.
 

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I know this isn’t comforting to you guys, but I like Malik, I think he could pick it up a notch if he’s given a bigger role this season.
Kinda in the mold of a Geronimo type.

Oh forgot. If Lazard blows up this next season without Adams - and plays into a massive contract and somehow Malik is still in house, I see Malik as a direct next Lazard type up.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I know this isn’t comforting to you guys, but I like Malik, I think he could pick it up a notch if he’s given a bigger role this season.
Kinda in the mold of a Geronimo type.
I can't get excited about a guy that has been around for 3 seasons, been given enough opportunities to prove himself and hasn't. Even on kick returns he was slow and indecisive. We have had way too many Shepherds and Taylors taking up roster spots. If they are going to be a #5 or #6, they better at least be able to play good special teams. As much crap as I talk about Janis, at least he earned his keep on Special Teams for a few years.
 

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I can't get excited about a guy that has been around for 3 seasons, been given enough opportunities to prove himself and hasn't. Even on kick returns he was slow and indecisive. We have had way too many Shepherds and Taylors taking up roster spots. If they are going to be a #5 or #6, they better at least be able to play good special teams. As much crap as I talk about Janis, at least he earned his keep on Special Teams for a few years.

Problem is the niche in a WR room Taylor is best suited for is taken by Lazard. I don't personally think as long as Lazard is here Malik makes the active roster if honest - even if Lazard leaves I don't think it is a big chance because as you have said it isn't like he has had a massively challenging room to get a seat in.
 

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Problem is the niche in a WR room Taylor is best suited for is taken by Lazard. I don't personally think as long as Lazard is here Malik makes the active roster if honest - even if Lazard leaves I don't think it is a big chance because as you have said it isn't like he has had a massively challenging room to get a seat in.
Yeah, I think if some of these guys were going to other teams and looking like polished NFL WR's, I would be worried that we lack coaching or something. When in reality, we have just lacked investment into the position for too long. Not blaming Rodgers whatsoever for that, but between his and Davante's elite play, the Packers have really been able to cover up the shortfall in talent. I know some want to look at game film from above and go over each play frame by frame and point to Lazard, Taylor, etc. on a specific play and say "see, he was open and Rodgers threw it to a covered Davante." Sure, that guy might have been open, if Rodgers had the same view and time to look, but Rodgers knows who is routinely running a good route, getting themselves open and making catches. No matter who the Packers sign in free agency or draft, Rodgers is going to have to force himself to be a bit uncomfortable in trusting his arm and ability, in receivers he may not altogether trust in having a lot of ability.
 
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I can't get excited about a guy that has been around for 3 seasons, been given enough opportunities to prove himself and hasn't. Even on kick returns he was slow and indecisive. We have had way too many Shepherds and Taylors taking up roster spots. If they are going to be a #5 or #6, they better at least be able to play good special teams. As much crap as I talk about Janis, at least he earned his keep on Special Teams for a few years.

It’s pretty hard to judge by his 2021 Sophomore season (2019 was a redshirt for him). Last season he was only in 2.87% of the Offensive total picture. However he did produce when called upon over 2 seasons

9 targets-7 rec. (77.8% catch rate)
80 yards 11.4 per catch
1 TD
1 run for 9 yards.

I agree it’s his lack of ST ability though. It’s probably not likely he’s around at WR if we sign a veteran plus 2 earlier draft picks. Back to PS
 
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So, the obvious answer is Will Fuller. His last 2 seasons in Houston, I'm going to give him a pass in Miami with their QB decision

49 catches 71 targets (69%)
53 catches 75 targets (71%)

I mean I see Fuller being that guy
 

Pokerbrat2000

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So, the obvious answer is Will Fuller. His last 2 seasons in Houston, I'm going to give him a pass in Miami with their QB decision

49 catches 71 targets (69%)
53 catches 75 targets (71%)

I mean I see Fuller being that guy
Yeah, I have seen his name tossed around a lot with the Packers and not just this year. I think there has been past talk about trading for him, as well as signing him in Free Agency last year. The guy can play, when he is available. I would be concerned that in 6 seasons, he has only played in 55 games. There has been injuries and I think a suspension in there.

But hey, if all that makes him cheap and signable, its not like the Packers don't have the need for a warm body at WR.
 
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I think he had tunnel vision when it came to Davante Adams. The team suffered from it, especially in the biggest moments.

In my opinion you're making a mistake by picking random plays, looking at it from a bird's eye view and use it as evidence that Rodgers had tunnel vision for Adams and missed open receiver constantly because of it.

Once again, there's absolutely no doubt it happened but there's no reason to act as if that was a huge issue. Especially considering he only threw a total of 40 incompletions all season long when targeting #17.

In addition, he threw 70% of his passes to another pass catcher, some of you make it sound like he targeted Adams at that percentage.

So, the obvious answer is Will Fuller. His last 2 seasons in Houston, I'm going to give him a pass in Miami with their QB decision

49 catches 71 targets (69%)
53 catches 75 targets (71%)

I mean I see Fuller being that guy

Fuller was since suspended for PED use and missed part of the season with the Dolphins because of a personal issue. I prefer the Packers to pass on him.
 

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Is Fuller the most capable FA out there (healthy) to be a team's #1 in 2022 and arguably a few more years? Yes.

Do I want him to be a Packer? No.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Right now, most of the WR vet FA's are going to come with some type of baggage, including:

-injury history
-age (too old)
-off field stuff
-asking for too much money
-add more here

The Packers really are in a bit of a known bind and player's agents will use it against them in negotiations. So they might have to pay a bit of a premium to get someone that doesn't tick too many of those issues.

That said, someone like Will Fuller, who will be 28 next month, probably still has a lot of tread left on his tires. Yes, he was suspended in 2020 for PED's and has an injury history, but so do most of the FA's out there. I would be open to hearing more of why people wouldn't want him and who they would want?

This is the top ones to choose from. Saints just resigned Smith and maybe a few others are no longer free agents. The pickings are slim.

1. Odell Beckham Jr.
2. Julio Jones
3. Emmanuel Sanders
4. Jarvis Landry
5. A.J. Green
6. Cole Beasley
7. Allen Lazard (RFA)
8. Will Fuller
9. Sammy Watkins
10. John Ross
11. Albert Wilson
12. Tre’Quan Smith
13. Keelan Cole, New York Jets
 

tynimiller

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Right now, most of the WR vet FA's are going to come with some type of baggage, including:

-injury history
-age (too old)
-off field stuff
-asking for too much money
-add more here

The Packers really are in a bit of a known bind and player's agents will use it against them in negotiations. So they might have to pay a bit of a premium to get someone that doesn't tick too many of those issues.

That said, someone like Will Fuller, who will be 28 next month, probably still has a lot of tread left on his tires. Yes, he was suspended in 2020 for PED's and has an injury history, but so do most of the FA's out there. I would be open to hearing more of why people wouldn't want him and who they would want?

This is the top ones to choose from. Saints just resigned Smith and maybe a few others are no longer free agents. The pickings are slim.

1. Odell Beckham Jr.
2. Julio Jones
3. Emmanuel Sanders
4. Jarvis Landry
5. A.J. Green
6. Cole Beasley
7. Allen Lazard (RFA)
8. Will Fuller
9. Sammy Watkins
10. John Ross
11. Albert Wilson
12. Tre’Quan Smith
13. Keelan Cole, New York Jets

I'm not opposed to a John Ross signing. Dude is good for one thing and that is running fast and keeping backside honest of the defense. Not someone that will get a ton of snaps, but does offer something no one on our roster does, and is perfect signing post - draft if you don't nab a speedster to include that in the offensive scheme.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I'm not opposed to a John Ross signing. Dude is good for one thing and that is running fast and keeping backside honest of the defense. Not someone that will get a ton of snaps, but does offer something no one on our roster does, and is perfect signing post - draft if you don't nab a speedster to include that in the offensive scheme.
Ross has been a major disappointment, but at the right price (close to vet minimum) he would be worth giving a try. He too has had injury history, as well as playing with QB's that were either really young or not that good. All that said, I would want an additional Vet FA signed. A lineup up Ross, Lazard, Cobb, Rodgers and 2 rookies doesn't really excite me too much.
 

tynimiller

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Ross has been a major disappointment, but at the right price (close to vet minimum) he would be worth giving a try. He too has had injury history, as well as playing with QB's that were either really young or not that good. All that said, I would want an additional Vet FA signed. A lineup up Ross, Lazard, Cobb, Rodgers and 2 rookies doesn't really excite me too much.

I'll be honest, I'm in the camp that any offense with Rodgers at the helm, MLF calling the plays and guys like Aaron Jones, AJ Dillon in the backfield I'm excited nontheless with merely Cobb/Lazard/Tonyan/Lewis as main receiving options....additional folks will merely increase it :)
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I'll be honest, I'm in the camp that any offense with Rodgers at the helm, MLF calling the plays and guys like Aaron Jones, AJ Dillon in the backfield I'm excited nontheless with merely Cobb/Lazard/Tonyan/Lewis as main receiving options....additional folks will merely increase it :)
Glad you are that optimistic, I'm not. ;)

Injuries are always going to cost us players, so even with what I would call a very weak starting cast of Cobb/Lazard/Tonyan/Lewis, there is no proven starters after that. The Packers would suddenly become a run oriented team and I think a pretty easy offense to defense against, despite how good Aaron Rodgers is. I would even go as far to say, if that was the goal, then they should have traded Rodgers, saved all that money and gotten more draft choices to build a better team around Love.

You have the NFL's MVP on the team and he is that for his passing skills, not for running a run oriented team. Would be a waste of his talent to not give him better weapons.
 

tynimiller

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Glad you are that optimistic, I'm not. ;)

Injuries are always going to cost us players, so even with what I would call a very weak starting cast of Cobb/Lazard/Tonyan/Lewis, there is no proven starters after that. The Packers would suddenly become a run oriented team and I think a pretty easy offense to defense against, despite how good Aaron Rodgers is. I would even go as far to say, if that was the goal, then they should have traded Rodgers, saved all that money and gotten more draft choices to build a better team around Love.

You have the NFL's MVP on the team and he is that for his passing skills, not for running a run oriented team. Would be a waste of his talent to not give him better weapons.

You know I want weapons and am not entering 2022 as the receiving options sit...I'm just saying I've seen Rodgers without anything arguably for WRs and win, and he is a QB I will NEVER bet against to make things happen.

I wouldn't worry, there will be additions.
 

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In my opinion you're making a mistake by picking random plays, looking at it from a bird's eye view and use it as evidence that Rodgers had tunnel vision for Adams and missed open receiver constantly because of it.

Once again, there's absolutely no doubt it happened but there's no reason to act as if that was a huge issue. Especially considering he only threw a total of 40 incompletions all season long when targeting #17.

In addition, he threw 70% of his passes to another pass catcher, some of you make it sound like he targeted Adams at that percentage.

There is nothing random about the biggest moments. This is a perfect example...

Rodgers misses Lazard
 

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Right now, most of the WR vet FA's are going to come with some type of baggage, including:

-injury history
-age (too old)
-off field stuff
-asking for too much money
-add more here

The Packers really are in a bit of a known bind and player's agents will use it against them in negotiations. So they might have to pay a bit of a premium to get someone that doesn't tick too many of those issues.

That said, someone like Will Fuller, who will be 28 next month, probably still has a lot of tread left on his tires. Yes, he was suspended in 2020 for PED's and has an injury history, but so do most of the FA's out there. I would be open to hearing more of why people wouldn't want him and who they would want?

This is the top ones to choose from. Saints just resigned Smith and maybe a few others are no longer free agents. The pickings are slim.

1. Odell Beckham Jr.
2. Julio Jones
3. Emmanuel Sanders
4. Jarvis Landry
5. A.J. Green
6. Cole Beasley
7. Allen Lazard (RFA)
8. Will Fuller
9. Sammy Watkins
10. John Ross
11. Albert Wilson
12. Tre’Quan Smith
13. Keelan Cole, New York Jets

If this was 4-5 years ago, this would've been one of the best FA WR classes of all time.

However, presently I am uninspired.

This is a "well" I wouldn't go to until after the draft.

Regardless of contact and contract, I think GB should finish the draft and then makes some calls.

Most of these guys are coming off notable injuries, especially in the case of OBJ.

I would assume outside of Sanders, most of these vets are delusional when it comes to their current status.

Give these vets a contract now, and you risk tension down the road when it comes to roles, targets, and catches.

Example, you bring in Julio Jones and sign him before drafting...Olave.

Olave shows up ahead of schedule and is clearly the No.1

Jones feels slighted when the targets shift the rook's way, then what?

I think you draft the WRs of the future, build them up, and target the right vet or two, so they accept their roles upon signing the contract.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Regardless of contact and contract, I think GB should finish the draft and then makes some calls.
See I don't think there is anything in the draft that the Packers can due to assure themselves that they have a ready made WR ready to go. Maybe by September, but not in April. Therefore, to me there is a need right now to sign a vet FA like Julio, so you know what you have to start the season. What rookie isn't going to want to learn from Julio Jones? I don't see chemistry issues with a vet, feeling like a rookie might take his spot or snaps.

The longer Gute waits, the less guys he will have to choose from and negotiate with.
 

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See I don't think there is anything in the draft that the Packers can due to assure themselves that they have a ready made WR ready to go. Maybe by September, but not in April. Therefore, to me there is a need right now to sign a vet FA like Julio, so you know what you have to start the season. What rookie isn't going to want to learn from Julio Jones? I don't see chemistry issues with a vet, feeling like a rookie might take his spot or snaps.

The longer Gute waits, the less guys he will have to choose from and negotiate with.

As of today, we (the fans) don't know if/when any extensions are coming for players like Alexander, so the total cap is essentially unknown.

However, I push back on immediately signing a free agent, I think most teams are focused on the draft.

Honestly, I surprised not many free agent WRs are calling GB.

Doesn't GB offer many things that a WR would covet?

Also, if Davante Adams was still here, then I could envision a highly drafted WR keeping his mouth shut and learning the game.

But Adams is gone, and the only vet that has the clout to mentor is really Cobb.

A FA vet WR will only offer experience as a professional in the NFL and (macro level) a professional sports athlete.

You bring in Julio or any other vet, and both the rookie and vet have to learn the same playbook, verbiage, tendencies of AR12, culture, etc.

This is uncharted waters. Who mentors the rooks?

No. 1-3 slots for the WR corp are wide open.

Why hasn't GB brought a WR in for a visit?
 
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That said, someone like Will Fuller, who will be 28 next month, probably still has a lot of tread left on his tires. Yes, he was suspended in 2020 for PED's and has an injury history, but so do most of the FA's out there. I would be open to hearing more of why people wouldn't want him and who they would want?

The Packers would need to make a thorough investigation into Fuller's personal issue that caused him to at least miss a game last season but might have played in role in him missing the entire season after week 4 before I would feel comfortable about signing him.

There is nothing random about the biggest moments. This is a perfect example...

Rodgers misses Lazard

Dude, you're evaluating Rodgers on a single throw out of a total of 560 last season. As I've mentioned before it was a terrible decision throwing it to Adams on it but you need to see the big picture here as well.

As of today, we (the fans) don't know if/when any extensions are coming for players like Alexander, so the total cap is essentially unknown.

The Packers definitely can afford to sign a veteran wide receiver and fit him under the cap.
 

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