McGinn harshly criticizes Rodgers

[Sunshinepacker]

That is a pretty tough throw to make with Sherman taking away the inside route for Adams with no safety help over the top (Tramon should've taken notice of it).

I watched the play once again on the all-22 cam, don't agree with you at all that Adams was wide open at any point during it.

It's obvious when you just watch the replay on NFL.com of the interceptioni that Adams has a full step on Sherman and has to slow down in the endzone to wait for the pass. Had Rodgers thrown the ball just half a second sooner and put more air under it then Adams doesn't have to slow down and Sherman never comes close to the pass.

Just google the phrase, Sherman Rodgers interception. First link should be Fox and the NFL.com video is embedded in the article, it's 33 seconds long. At the 5 second to 6 second mark you can clearly see Adams slowing down because the ball was underthrown and this allows Sherman to get into position.

 

[Mondio]

come on Capatain, easy throw dude. Sherman underneath, Endline 2 steps behind them, just drop it in man. Since Adams had a "step" on him, he should have just laid it out there, he probably could have ran under it by the time he got to the stands.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's obvious when you just watch the replay on NFL.com of the interceptioni that Adams has a full step on Sherman and has to slow down in the endzone to wait for the pass. Had Rodgers thrown the ball just half a second sooner and put more air under it then Adams doesn't have to slow down and Sherman never comes close to the pass.

Just google the phrase, Sherman Rodgers interception. First link should be Fox and the NFL.com video is embedded in the article, it's 33 seconds long. At the 5 second to 6 second mark you can clearly see Adams slowing down because the ball was underthrown and this allows Sherman to get into position.

Here´s a screenshot from the all-22 cam at the time Rodgers got rid of the ball on that play. Hardly what I would call Adams being wide open:

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[TJV]

Had Rodgers not been hurt and played even decent GB would have won the game. The Major factor in the loss was Rodgers not playing like Rodgers.

IMO this overstates it, Rodgers play was just one of many factors. If you are looking for "the major factor", Bostic's screw up is a more immediate one. If the Packers recover the on-sides kick they win, right? In spite of everything else. Same with Heyward's Clinton-Dix ******** up the two-point conversion. Rodgers didn't play up to his standards (and if he were healthy IMO they win) but even with the way he played, erase the two-point conversion and have the Packers recover the on-sides kick...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

IMO this overstates it, Rodgers play was just one of many factors. If you are looking for "the major factor", Bostic's screw up is a more immediate one. If the Packers recover the on-sides kick they win, right? In spite of everything else. Same with Heyward's ******** up the two-point conversion. Rodgers didn't play up to his standards (and if he were healthy IMO they win) but even with the way he played, erase the two-point conversion and have the Packers recover the on-sides kick...

Agree with most of your post but it was Clinton-Dix ******** up the two-point conversion.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Here´s a screenshot from the all-22 cam at the time Rodgers got rid of the ball on that play. Hardly what I would call Adams being wide open:

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This is the nfl, not college. Having a full step on your defender is wide open.

 

[HardRightEdge]

This is the nfl, not college. Having a full step on your defender is wide open.

The defender has already turned and is in stride; he has inside position narrowing the target window to an area between the sidelines and about about three paces in. History would indicate throwing a back shoulder against Sherman might be a bad idea. That's good coverage by a dangerous defender.

 

[Mondio]

Exactly, this isn't college, it IS the NFL and THAT is Richard Sherman. he plays the ball as well as any WR in the league. He had great position, especially for how he can play the ball in the air and his height.

 

[PackerXLV]

Here´s a screenshot from the all-22 cam at the time Rodgers got rid of the ball on that play. Hardly what I would call Adams being wide open:

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What this doesn't show is the current speed at which both Sherman and Adams are moving. You don't know if Adams is beginning his separation here or if Sherman is closing in. This is not a definitive look at someone being open or covered unless it shows where they're both at when the ball reaches its target zone, which it hasn't, because it was just thrown at this point in time.

 

[pacmaniac]

Here´s a screenshot from the all-22 cam at the time Rodgers got rid of the ball on that play. Hardly what I would call Adams being wide open:

But you can tell that Rodgers could have thrown the ball over Adams head so that either Adams catches it or no one catches it. Instead he underthrew it so that Sherman caught it.

 

[Mondio]

What this doesn't show is the current speed at which both Sherman and Adams are moving. You don't know if Adams is beginning his separation here or if Sherman is closing in. This is not a definitive look at someone being open or covered unless it shows where they're both at when the ball reaches its target zone, which it hasn't, because it was just thrown at this point in time.

you're right, it doesn't show the current speed, but the video does. Rodgers is throwing it at least 15 yards ahead of where they are at right now.

Keep in mind he wants his receiver to be able to make a play on the ball, because it is a free play, or at least what they thought was. He's not taking a shot at the endzone to throw it away.

Anyway, at the speed they were moving, he couldn't exactly just put it at the endline, they just end up out of bounds.
Maybe he could have thrown it earlier? Either way the inside was taken away, back shoulder would have ended up the same I think. To the outside Pylon? I think Sherman is still able to make a play on it.

It wasn't a good play obviously, but with the offsides and how they took advantage of that all year, on a pass 35-40 yards down field, i'm not going to bust his balls too much over this one.

 

[HardRightEdge]

This is not a definitive look at someone being open or covered unless it shows where they're both at when the ball reaches its target zone, which it hasn't, because it was just thrown at this point in time.

Yes, the QB is throwing the ball now.

If you're going to judge the decision as to whether this is the right throw, this is the last point at which to do it. Actually, to be accurate, the decision was made a couple of 10ths. before this point since he's completed his windup and is about to make the pitch.

Where the players eventually end up is 20/20 hindsight since it's influenced by the direction, depth and trajectory of the throw itself.

As for the location of the throw, this is the point where the QB determines where he wants the ball to go to (1) minimize the chance for an interception and (2) maximize the opportunity for a catch. In this case the window is fairly small, the defender is formidable, and it's a deep throw. A lot can go wrong under these circumstances, and even with the very best quarterbacks it usually does.

 

[Pack12TX]

I think we are all just so used to Aaron squeezing the ball into tight spaces that we live in a world where we think he needs to make every perfect throw. That doesn't always happen - a lot of times it's receivers' adjustments that make a not so good throw look amazing. In this case, sure Rodgers could have thrown it better - no doubt - but couldn't Adams have made some sort of adjustment to the ball or at the very least play defense to avoid the interception? With all of that said, we have the best QB in the league, who was playing at 80% health max, and I would take him at that level over most of the healthy QB's in the league.

 

[yooperpackfan]

I have, in the past, accused people of sticking their head in the sand when it comes to Ted Thompson.
I'm sticking my head in the sand when it comes to Aaron Rodgers.

 

[TJV]

I'm not sure if a stat can be found to support this but I remember a few times in his career Rodgers has thrown an INT after he anticipated a penalty on the defense. It's because it's a free play and he feels free to gamble because the penalty negates any bad result. Rodgers said after the game that Linsley snapped the ball early because Bennett was offsides. IMO Rodgers threw the ball up hoping Adams would be able to make a play on it and if it was intercepted, they'd just accept the penalty. If anyone deserves criticism for that play, it's the official who missed the call.

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Picture is from a link on PFT: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ed-seahawks-offside-on-shermans-interception/

 

[yooperpackfan]

I'm not sure if a stat can be found to support this but I remember a few times in his career Rodgers has thrown an INT after he anticipated a penalty on the defense. It's because it's a free play and he feels free to gamble because the penalty negates any bad result. Rodgers said after the game that Linsley snapped the ball early because Bennett was offsides. IMO Rodgers threw the ball up hoping Adams would be able to make a play on it and if it was intercepted, they'd just accept the penalty. If anyone deserves criticism for that play, it's the official who missed the call.

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Picture is from a link on PFT: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...ed-seahawks-offside-on-shermans-interception/

And the offside was so obvious. I was shocked when there was no flag.

 

[melvin dangerr]

Not saying you are wrong, but I cant graps this..Blaming the def for given up 8pts at the end, but why cant the offense be blamed for only getting 6 points and not at least 10 in the begining?

Good point! I took a blind observation at the end of the game and blocked out the beginning...

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The defender has already turned and is in stride; he has inside position narrowing the target window to an area between the sidelines and about about three paces in. History would indicate throwing a back shoulder against Sherman might be a bad idea. That's good coverage by a dangerous defender.

So if Rodgers airs the ball out and allows Adams to run under it at full speed, you're saying Sherman (not known for his speed) will somehow manage to make up ground? A sideline throw there puts Adams between Sherman and the ball. Sherman isn't magical. He's not a leprechaun who can reappear anywhere on the field. A ball thrown to the outside and ahead of Adams would basically require a) Sherman to have rocket shoes to allow him to make up lost ground or b) commit PI to go through Adams to get to a ball thrown to the outside.

 

[TJV]

And the offside was so obvious. I was shocked when there was no flag.

So apparently were Linsley and Rodgers.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I'm not sure if a stat can be found to support this but I remember a few times in his career Rodgers has thrown an INT after he anticipated a penalty on the defense. It's because it's a free play and he feels free to gamble because the penalty negates any bad result. Rodgers said after the game that Linsley snapped the ball early because Bennett was offsides. IMO Rodgers threw the ball up hoping Adams would be able to make a play on it and if it was intercepted, they'd just accept the penalty. If anyone deserves criticism for that play, it's the official who missed the call.

Rodgers' throw was poor. The interception shouldn't have counted but Rodgers can still get dinged for missing on the TD pass.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

IMO this overstates it, Rodgers play was just one of many factors. If you are looking for "the major factor", Bostic's screw up is a more immediate one. If the Packers recover the on-sides kick they win, right? In spite of everything else. Same with Heyward's Clinton-Dix ******** up the two-point conversion. Rodgers didn't play up to his standards (and if he were healthy IMO they win) but even with the way he played, erase the two-point conversion and have the Packers recover the on-sides kick...

People keep going around and around on which specific player to blame. There were LOTS of players to blame. That being the case, wouldn't one think that the coaches would then be to blame? It's the coaches jobs to get the players to do their jobs. I can understand if maybe one or two guys screw up but the Packers suffered from far too many issues to be blamed on one guy. McCarthy coaching "not to lose", HaHa forgetting he was playing football on the conversion, Bostick being unable to field the ball, Nelson dropping passes, Rodgers having a terrible day, Burnett going down....it goes on and on....

 

[MadCat]

...Sherman isn't magical...

Don't try telling him that!

 

[HardRightEdge]

So if Rodgers airs the ball out and allows Adams to run under it at full speed, you're saying Sherman (not known for his speed) will somehow manage to make up ground? A sideline throw there puts Adams between Sherman and the ball. Sherman isn't magical. He's not a leprechaun who can reappear anywhere on the field. A ball thrown to the outside and ahead of Adams would basically require a) Sherman to have rocket shoes to allow him to make up lost ground or b) commit PI to go through Adams to get to a ball thrown to the outside.

That wasn't the question, I don't believe. The question was whether Rodgers missed an open receiver. My point is that the coverage is decent; the outside window relatively small. As for Sherman's ability, I'd point you to his signature play against Crabtree...that was an adjustment to an outside throw from inside coverage...it's kind of his specialty.

Was it a poor throw? Sure. It happens to the best of them...often. Did Rodgers miss a fish in a barrel? No.

If you guys want to get all worked up about a throw, this is not the one. The high throw to a wide open Cobb on that crosser was uncharacteristic for Rodgers. He makes that throw at least 9 out of 10 times.

 

[PackerXLV]

Yes, the QB is throwing the ball now.

If you're going to judge the decision as to whether this is the right throw, this is the last point at which to do it. Actually, to be accurate, the decision was made a couple of 10ths. before this point since he's completed his windup and is about to make the pitch.

Where the players eventually end up is 20/20 hindsight since it's influenced by the direction, depth and trajectory of the throw itself.

As for the location of the throw, this is the point where the QB determines where he wants the ball to go to (1) minimize the chance for an interception and (2) maximize the opportunity for a catch. In this case the window is fairly small, the defender is formidable, and it's a deep throw. A lot can go wrong under these circumstances, and even with the very best quarterbacks it usually does.

you've missed my point.

I know this is when the ball was thrown. My point is that a still image does not take into account the actual motion of the play. It can't measure the speeds by which both players are moving during the throw. Someone may actually look covered but maybe pulling away instead. So it may seem as if someone is covered by simply looking at a still image, when in fact, that person is going to appear much more open in the next couple frames, the frames that aren't shown here.

And yes, I know when a decision to throw a football is made in relation to the point at which it is actually thrown. I didn't just learn football yesterday.

 

[HardRightEdge]

you've missed my point.

I know this is when the ball was thrown. My point is that a still image does not take into account the actual motion of the play. It can't measure the speeds by which both players are moving during the throw. Someone may actually look covered but maybe pulling away instead. So it may seem as if someone is covered by simply looking at a still image, when in fact, that person is going to appear much more open in the next couple frames, the frames that aren't shown here.

And yes, I know when a decision to throw a football is made in relation to the point at which it is actually thrown. I didn't just learn football yesterday.

Suit yourself. Go to the following link and click on "NFC Championship Can't Miss Play: Sherman Strikes".

http://www.nfl.com/big-play-highlights/2014/POST/20

Sherman had coverage all the way; the receiver never gained a step on him. The best shot was an outside throw, as I previously noted, in an attempt to "throw open" the receiver against inside coverage. Sherman happens to be one of those guys who adjusts the ball as well as most receivers so that would be a tough throw regardless. Rodgers may have been a fraction late, may have misjudged the best opportunity, or perhaps he saw the receiver already committing to the inside.

Regardless, this is not an easy opportunity missed as some wish to portray it because Sherman had close coverage all the way. To repeat, the Cobb high throw is far more worthy of critique.