Marcus Davenport

[Dantés]

Yeah, can't you tell? It's right there in the thread title. Sheesh, some mothers' children.

The post of his I quoted, he was talking about Edmunds. The forty time I listed was in regards to Edmunds. The whole conversation taking place on this page is about... wait for it... Edmunds!

 

[Poppa San]

The post of his I quoted, he was talking about Edmunds. The forty time I listed was in regards to Edmunds. The whole conversation taking place on this page is about... wait for it... Edmunds!

i know, i was following along. Don't we have an edmunds thread?

 

[Dantés]

i know, i was following along. Don't we have an edmunds thread?

I think so. This is where the particular conversation came up.

 

[PackFan2]

If he runs a 4.8 I'll eat your shorts.

He ran offical 4.54. Hope HardEdge likes polyester lol.

 

[GleefulGary]

Well I definitely like Davenport over Edmunds if it came down to it. There just appears more to work with at next level. My main issue with Davenport is I don't see enough burst with his first step and lack of second move. The second move can be developed but probably not the burst. He definitely isn't as explosive off the line as Arden Key and with the 14th pick I would prefer someone that can get off the line at an elite level.

Advantage: Arden Key

Arden Key and that 4.85 40 at 240 pounds shows ELITE athleticism.

I'm quite sure if he has a good "3 cone" well never hear the end of it.

THE IRONY

If you haven't noticed I am not particularly high on Edmunds for some of the reasons you state at 14. He is a plugger that can bring wood and a coverage liability in the NFL

See Benardrick McKinney. Same deal. Pass.

Yup. That Tremaine Edmunds is a plugger and a coverage liability. He sure is.

 

[HardRightEdge]

He ran offical 4.54. Hope HardEdge likes polyester lol.

I never said anything about eating shorts. That was the guy you quoted who turned out to be right.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Speaking of bothering to read, we’re talking about Edmunds, not Davenport.

My bad.

I didn't study Edmunds' tape. I just looked at a few of the plays you pointed to. You'll note at post #70 I indicated that one play you pointed to indicated that 4.8 preliminay time might be suspect. So, yeah, I suppose his Combine time justifies regarding him as a top prospect.

But to be honest, I had put that exchange out of my mind because of the low priority I put on expending a high pick on the ILB position. I believe you have to roll with Jones to do what he was drafted to do in the box safety/ILB hybrid role, particularly in a simplified, attacking style of defense that we are expecting.

Now, if Petine's intent was to play a traditional 4-3, I could see Edmunds as plug and play at OLB. But if that was the case we'd have parted ways with Matthews who would be a guy without a position, we'd have gone looking for a 4-3 DE instead of signing Wilkerson, and wouldn't be interviewing Vea.

As an aside, I do not understand the interest in Vea. It looks like DT overkill. Had Wilkerson not been signed and the intent is a 3-4 / 4-3 under mixed scheme I could vaguely see Vea. The patchwork secondary needs attention compounded by Clinton-Dix being in a contract year, Williams' age, and considerable cluelessness on King's part in his rookie year.

There isn't anybody on this roster you can point to as a slot corner, a particular sore spot in past seasons. OLB/DE depending on scheme, a WR, maybe a safety would make more sense in addressing the secondary.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Arden Key and that 4.85 40 at 240 pounds shows ELITE athleticism.

A 40 time is not that relevant for an edge rusher. Short distance quickness and agility is the issue. He had nice 20 yard shuttle time.

Key is one of those low floor/high ceiling guys. You look at the older tape and the burst and hand work is A1. Maybe there's an explanation for his quitting the team and his performance fall off last season. Maybe there isn't.

Too risky at #14. And if there isn't a compelling explanation for his issues, he could fall pretty far.

 

[GleefulGary]

A 40 time is not that relevant for an edge rusher. Short distance quickness and agility is the issue. He had nice 20 yard shuttle time.

Key is one of those low floor/high ceiling guys. You look at the older tape and the burst and hand work is A1. Maybe there's an explanation for his quitting the team and his performance fall off last season. Maybe there isn't.

Too risky at #14. And if there isn't a compelling explanation for his issues, he could fall pretty far.

I agree. 10 yard split and 3-cone are far more indicative.

He had a 7.16 3-cone which is awful for a 240 lb speed rusher. His 40 indicates a poor 10 yard, although there are exceptions.

 

[Dantés]

My bad.

I didn't study Edmunds' tape. I just looked at a few of the plays you pointed to. You'll note at post #70 I indicated that one play you pointed to indicated that 4.8 preliminay time might be suspect. So, yeah, I suppose his Combine time justifies regarding him as a top prospect.

But to be honest, I had put that exchange out of my mind because of the low priority I put on expending a high pick on the ILB position. I believe you have to roll with Jones to do what he was drafted to do in the box safety/ILB hybrid role, particularly in a simplified, attacking style of defense that we are expecting.

Now, if Petine's intent was to play a traditional 4-3, I could see Edmunds as plug and play at OLB. But if that was the case we'd have parted ways with Matthews who would be a guy without a position, we'd have gone looking for a 4-3 DE instead of signing Wilkerson, and wouldn't be interviewing Vea.

As an aside, I do not understand the interest in Vea. It looks like DT overkill. Had Wilkerson not been signed and the intent is a 3-4 / 4-3 under mixed scheme I could vaguely see Vea. The patchwork secondary needs attention compounded by Clinton-Dix being in a contract year, Williams' age, and considerable cluelessness on King's part in his rookie year.

There isn't anybody on this roster you can point to as a slot corner, a particular sore spot in past seasons. OLB/DE depending on scheme, a WR, maybe a safety would make more sense in addressing the secondary.

If the plan is that Jones is the sub package ILB next to Martinez, then drafting a linebacker like Edmunds or Smith wouldn't be necessary at #14. However, if he's going to slide over and replace Burnett in more of a SS role, it would make more sense. I have no idea what their plan is with him.

I agree that with the Wilkerson signing and presence of other good prospects at other positions, Vea no longer makes sense for the Packers.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Not sure if this has been brought up but while I like Davenport, I would take Landry 100 times out of 100 ahead of Davenport.

 

[HardRightEdge]

If the plan is that Jones is the sub package ILB next to Martinez, then drafting a linebacker like Edmunds or Smith wouldn't be necessary at #14. However, if he's going to slide over and replace Burnett in more of a SS role, it would make more sense. I have no idea what their plan is with him.

I agree that with the Wilkerson signing and presence of other good prospects at other positions, Vea no longer makes sense for the Packers.

It seems they are pretty comfortable with Brice in 2-high safety.

The question is still begged as to why the Packers are hosting a Vea visit. That makes some sense if they envision playing a lot of traditional 4-3 with Perry and Wilkerson at DE and Daniels-Clark-Vea in rotation inside. As you know it would be an understatement to say I'm not enamored of the idea of Wilkerson rushing off the edge, Petine expressed more of a hybrid approach rather than traditional 4-3, and a traditional 4-3 leaves Matthews without a position warranting $11.3 million, or much of anything at all, given his lackluster play at ILB in past seasons.

It's a head scratcher as far as I'm concerned.

 

[GleefulGary]

Due diligence on a potentially good D-Lineman.

Don't make too much out of it.

 

[Dantés]

It seems they are pretty comfortable with Brice in 2-high safety.

The question is still begged as to why the Packers are hosting a Vea visit. That makes some sense if they envision playing a lot of traditional 4-3 with Perry and Wilkerson at DE and Daniels-Clark-Vea in rotation inside. As you know it would be an understatement to say I'm not enamored of the idea of Wilkerson rushing off the edge, Petine expressed more of a hybrid approach rather than traditional 4-3, and a traditional 4-3 leaves Matthews without a position warranting $11.3 million, or much of anything at all, given his lackluster play at ILB in past seasons.

It's a head scratcher as far as I'm concerned.

You could be right, but I'm not taking anything for granted with the shift at DC.

 

[HardRightEdge]

You could be right, but I'm not taking anything for granted with the shift at DC.

The proof will be in the putting. I do have safety on my needs list, though not especially high on it. It's more of a FS thought for depth and C-D entering his contract year. I can't say I'm much impressed with Evans. At least with Brice you get a guy who can close and hit which is a key qualification for a SS.

 

[Dantés]

The proof will be in the putting. I do have safety on my needs list, though not especially high on it. It's more of a FS thought for depth and C-D entering his contract year. I can't say I'm much impressed with Evans. At least with Brice you get a guy who can close and hit which is a key qualification for a SS.

Evans is more of a ST guy.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Due diligence on a potentially good D-Lineman.

Don't make too much out of it.

Considering the Packers will likely have a top 10 non-QB pick, that there are only so many hours in the day, and that there are so many players that could visit as possible picks up and down the board, I wouldn't make too little of it.

 

[Dantés]

Considering the Packers will likely have a top 10 non-QB pick, that there are only so many hours in the day, and that there are so many players that could visit as possible picks up and down the board, I wouldn't make too little of it.

And you're free not to. But just to add by $.02, I agree with JJ and don't tend to try to read into meetings.

 

[GleefulGary]

All of our meetings used to be with late round guys. It's just information gathering. Not a big deal.

 

[brandon2348]

Its also used as a smoke screen. Kevin King and Devante Adams never met with packers after combine and they were selected high.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Evans is more of a ST guy.

So it would seem, being second only to Fackrell in special teams snaps. However, he did manage a 14% defensive snap count last season with C-D playing all 16 games. Right now he is the backup FS.

Now, if the Packers do not envision being the highest bidder for C-D at the conclusion of the season, it would make sense to draft a FS who shows enough scheme flexibility to play slot corner and back up at FS/SS for a year. A Hyde role with a guy who'd do better than Hyde in man slot coverage.

A cursory review of the prospects suggests Fitzpatrick or some lesser light with similar characteristics further down the board.

Nickel corner tends get short shrift even though it's a "starting position" getting 80% snaps while also being an acute need in this defense. It doesn't do much good to spend picks or cap on the front 6 - 7 if a guy like Kizer on a team like Cleveland can nearly beat you throwing short timing passes out of the pistol all day or watching guys like Senu own you out of the slot.

 

[Dantés]

So it would seem, being second only to Fackrell in special teams snaps. However, he did manage a 14% defensive snap count last season with C-D playing all 16 games. Right now he is the backup FS.

Now, if the Packers do not envision being the highest bidder for C-D at the conclusion of the season, it would make sense to draft a FS who shows enough scheme flexibility to play slot corner and back up at FS/SS for a year. A Hyde role with a guy who'd do better than Hyde in man slot coverage.

A cursory review of the prospects suggests Fitzpatrick or some lesser light with similar characteristics further down the board.

Nickel corner tends get short shrift even though it's a "starting position" getting 80% snaps while also being an acute need in this defense. It doesn't do much good to spend picks or cap on the front 6 - 7 if a guy like Kizer on a team like Cleveland can nearly beat you throwing short timing passes out of the pistol all day or watching guys like Senu own you out of the slot.

Fitzpatrick is the high end version of what you're describing, but M.J. Stewart would be another guy in the 3rd/4th with those traits.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Fitzpatrick is the high end version of what you're describing, but M.J. Stewart would be another guy in the 3rd/4th with those traits.

I was not aware, and a little surprised to learn, that Clinton-Dix was not a trusted communicator in Burnett's absence:

https://www.jsonline.com/story/spor...act-player-emerges-safety-position/486712002/

This would reinforce the argument for Fitpatrick at nickel corner in year one, learn the defense, then transition of FS in year two.

 

[thequick12]

I don't consider selecting Davenport in the second round as a reach though.

Davenport in to the 2nd would be great value. I don't think he'll be there

 

[HardRightEdge]

Fitzpatrick is the high end version of what you're describing, but M.J. Stewart would be another guy in the 3rd/4th with those traits.

See, now you got me looking at tape. I'm not liking that.

In that mid-round group I kinda like Yaidom though he's a perimeter guy which we could also use. Stewart's habit of pressing guys flat footed on stick routes bugs me.

I agree. 10 yard split and 3-cone are far more indicative.

He had a 7.16 3-cone which is awful for a 240 lb speed rusher. His 40 indicates a poor 10 yard, although there are exceptions.

To reiterate, I'm not in any way thinking in terms of Key in the first round. I don't know what explanation he may have for his issues last season, performance and otherwise. But I do have an observation on the drills.

So, the first half of the 3-cone is 15 yards worth of the 20 yard shuttle which measures lateral quickness and agility. I don't think Key lost time there given his good shuttle time. It's followed by a 90 degree turn left, a 180 degree turn, and ending with a 90 degree turn right. It wouldn't surprise me if he lost time on the 180 degree turn given his height and lanky build. So the question becomes how often does an edge rusher need to make an 180 degree turn in space? Not often.

Chubb and Davenport had worse times in both the shuttle and the 3-cone. The high-waisted, long-legged Clowney, for all his freakish Combine numbers, ran a 4.43 shuttle and a 7.27 3-cone probabably losing time in dipping to touch the ground.

When looking at the older tape of Key, what stands out is his 2-yard dash, the burst off the snap, and how he uses that 82" wingspan and those 10" hands.

One concern, among the other obvious ones, is how effective he'd be carrying more weight to be a 3-down player. His loggy performance last season has been partially attributed to playing at 265 lbs., though that may have been bad weight in being out of shape coming off his "vacation".

Frankly, if his story is at all plausible and he drops like a rock to the 3rd. round, I'd take him even as only a rotational pass rush specialist. Key, warts and all, sure beats Fackrell in the third round, a pick I did not like.