Lions studs and duds

Mondio

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So we're all supposed to be blindly loyal to the guy instead of objectively evaluating his value and performance? I'm glad you're not our GM lol
No, but generally when someone holds someone in high esteem, they tend not to talk about them like you do when it's apparent it's over for them. For someone you claim is your favorite ever, you sure seem to have very little respect for what he's done in the way you speak about him. has nothing to do with blind loyalty. You may be DONE with his hard count, but it once again was one of the best things that happened offensively for us in that game. Lots of guys not making a play all game, and you're DONE with something that was big in a pretty big moment for us, well, just because your favorite all time player did it... OK
 

thequick12

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So we're all supposed to be blindly loyal to the guy instead of objectively evaluating his value and performance? I'm glad you're not our GM lol

Anyone who thinks Rodgers is done...just isn't paying attention

Yeah he threw a pick at the end going 2 of 6 for just 12 yards on his last 6 attempts of the game. Coincidentally, the same thing Favre did in his last 6 attempts before being jettisoned to the Jets so Rodgers could take over. After Rodgers demanded he start or be traded. Will Love demand the same? If that happens its a different story but it hasn't...

Back to the game...Do we just ignore all the drops? If Doubs just catches that ball on the sideline for a big gain with the Packers up 3. The Packers likely get at least 3 points there. Not to mention Doubs dropped what would have been a converted 3rd and 7 on his only other target of the game. Leading to Crosby's long miss off the crossbar. The Lions turn field position near midfield into a Td. 2 huge plays, missed and points gifted to the Lions

Then you have Aaron Jones, who unfortunately seems to have a bit of a habit of fumbling in big spots. He did it again here, just as he did against the Bucs. Do we just ignore that too

Rodgers played well enough for the Packers to get the win. There's no debate there...other players did not and there's also no debate there. I highly doubt any of the players would disagree

Stats

Rodgers 17 of 27 for 205 yards 1Td 1 Int

4 drops for roughly 100 yards

21 of 27 for 305 yards 1 td 1 int

Doubs 2 drops 0 catches 0 yards

Jones 12 for 48 3 for 20 1 Fumble Packers leave at least 3 points on the field. Also allows the Lions to get 3 points they wouldnt of otherwise had time to get prior to the end of the half

Lazard Good Game But 1 drop that would of been 20 yard completion on 2nd and 4. Packers barely make it past where Lazard committed the drop and settle for a field goal

Coaches unacceptable play calls
MLF Lazard 4th and 1 outside run Packers leave 3 points on the field

Barry Zone on 3rd and 3 too easy Game/Over

Thats 3 points the Lions got they wouldnt have otherwise gotten, off the Jones fumble.

16 - 17

3 points they would have gotten had Doubs not dropped the 3rd and 7

19-16

3 points Packers would have gotten had Doubs caght the ball along the sideline late in the game

22 - 16

3 points left on field by Jones fumble

25 - 16

Even if the Lions get 8 at the end of the game Packers win 25 - 24
 
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Mondio

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Anyone who thinks Rodgers is done...just isn't paying attention

Yeah he threw a pick at the end going 2 of 6 for just 12 yards on his last 6 attempts of the game. Coincidentally, the same thing Favre did in his last 6 attempts before being jettisoned to the Jets so Rodgers could take over. After Rodgers demanded he start or be traded. Will Love demand the same? If that happens its a different story but it hasn't...

Back to the game...Do we just ignore all the drops? If Doubs just catches that ball on the sideline for a big gain with the Packers up 3. The Packers likely get at least 3 points there. Not to mention Doubs dropped what would have been a converted 3rd and 7 on his only other target of the game. Leading to Crosby's long miss off the crossbar. The Lions turn field position near midfield into a Td. 2 huge plays, missed and points gifted to the Lions

Then you have Aaron Jones, who unfortunately seems to have a bit of a habit of fumbling in big spots. He did it again here, just as he did against the Bucs. Do we just ignore that too

Rodgers played well enough for the Packers to get the win. There's no debate there...other players did not and there's also no debate there. I highly doubt any of the players would disagree

Stats

Rodgers 17 of 27 for 205 yards 1Td 1 Int

4 drops for roughly 100 yards

21 of 27 for 305 yards 1 td 1 int

Doubs 2 drops 0 catches 0 yards

Jones 12 for 48 3 for 20 1 Fumble Packers leave at least 3 points on the field. Also allows the Lions to get 3 points they wouldnt of otherwise had time to get prior to the end of the half

Lazard Good Game But 1 drop that would of been 20 yard completion on 2nd and 4. Packers barely make it past where Lazard committed the drop and settle for a field goal

Coaches unacceptable play calls
MLF Lazard 4th and 1 outside run Packers leave 3 points on the field

Barry Zone on 3rd and 3 too easy Game/Over

Thats 3 points the Lions got they wouldnt have otherwise gotten, off the Jones fumble.

16 - 17

3 points they would have gotten had Doubs not dropped the 3rd and 7

19-16

3 points Packers would have gotten had Doubs caght the ball along the sideline late in the game

22 - 16

3 points left on field by Jones fumble

25 - 16

Even if the Lions get 8 at the end of the game Packers win 25 - 24
don't forget those 4 drops resulted in at least 12 more offensive plays at a bare minimum that we didn't get to run on offense. That's significant.

I'm certain Rodgers isn't what he used to be. I also believe this situation is much closer to what it was when we moved from MM to MLF and there were struggles for all sorts of reasons other than a QB who dropped off and came roaring back once some other things smoothed themselves out.

Fix the right side of Oline, catch the damn ball, get another playmaker and we're scoring 30 a game again and all is well, IMO.
 

Arod2gjdd

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Rodgers played well enough for the Packers to get the win.

The bar has plummeted lol if you are satisfied with his performance in the past three home elimination games in which we were favored, then there is no world in which we will ever see eye to eye.
 

Schultz

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Just trying to remember. Were there 1 or 2 interceptions that were negated by penalty?
 

thequick12

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The bar has plummeted lol if you are satisfied with his performance in the past three home elimination games in which we were favored, then there is no world in which we will ever see eye to eye.

Im ok with that but just know that one of us is seeing reality and the other is not.

There's no debate here. Did Rodgers have the best game of his career in those 3 games? Absolutely not. Did he preform well enough to win if the rest of the team had pulled their weight? Absolutely he did.

For example, In 2 of those 3 one score losses the other Aaron fumbled inside the red zone as the Packers were headed for important points. Is that Rodgers fault too?

If you're expecting the qb to be able to overcome and make up for everyone else's mistakes as well as his own every game youre just not being realistic. There's never been a qb that good in the NFL and there never will be
 

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Assuming the Packers are picking up Love's 5th year (and I'm pretty sure they are) then that would leave only season with him as the starter. If he has a good or great year as a first year starter, then you're in a free agency bidding war for him. If you start him next year and move on from Rodgers, it gives you a chance to sign him to an extension before his second season is over. From a management perspective, it makes no sense to wait until his last year to name him the starter.

Unless management feels that a season with Rodgers leads to better job security. Why do people think Gute cares more about player eval than keeping his job? Gute will do the things that he thinks will be best for him keeping his job. If he believes a healthy Rodgers and better receiving group gives them a chance to take the division vs switching to Love and winning 5 games, I can pretty much guarantee he's going to chose the first option (which he did based on the extension he gave Rodgers). I get it, Rodgers ran over your pet or something and he's a terrible, no-good, rotten, low-down QB that had a down season in 2022 and now's the chance to pile on. If Rodgers retires, fine, I'm interested to see what MLF can do with Love as well. However, I'm more interested in the team winning and the coach and GM have told the fans (contract extension) that Rodgers gives the team a better chance of winning than Love does.
 

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From a management sense it makes sense to put the best team on the field that you can in any given season.

Rodgers right now represents that.
Did we watch the same games this season? Rodgers is not the QB you seem to think he is anymore. Every dog has his day, man.
 

BrokenArrow

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Im ok with that but just know that one of us is seeing reality and the other is not.

There's no debate here. Did Rodgers have the best game of his career in those 3 games? Absolutely not. Did he preform well enough to win if the rest of the team had pulled their weight? Absolutely he did.

For example, In 2 of those 3 one score losses the other Aaron fumbled inside the red zone as the Packers were headed for important points. Is that Rodgers fault too?

If you're expecting the qb to be able to overcome and make up for everyone else's mistakes as well as his own every game youre just not being realistic. There's never been a qb that good in the NFL and there never will be
How about we stick with the most recent history? You want to blame everyone else. Fine. But here are the facts. On 3rd and goal, Dillon was wide open scrambling to the same side Rodgers was scrambling and Rodgers threw it two feet behind him on about a 6 yard pass. Later, Jones had his man beat down the sideline by a couple of strides. Instead of hitting him in stride for a sure TD, he under threw him by about 4 yards, forcing him to slow down and ended up with the pass defended. Now you go ahead and blame Dillon and Jones for that if you want, but this is who Aaron Rodgers is now. But I understand you'll never hold Rodgers accountable and no matter how poorly he plays you'll continue to insist he's still a top tier QB.
 

BrokenArrow

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So we're all supposed to be blindly loyal to the guy instead of objectively evaluating his value and performance? I'm glad you're not our GM lol
It's interesting to see many fans get so emotionally attached to specific players (in all sports) that it clouds their view of reality.
 

MadCat

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It's interesting to see many fans get so emotionally attached to specific players (in all sports) that it clouds their view of reality.
Likewise, it’s interesting to see many fans get so emotionally hate-filled towards specific players that it clouds their view of reality.

That’s what makes this forum so “interesting.”
 
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Mondio

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How about we stick with the most recent history? You want to blame everyone else. Fine. But here are the facts. On 3rd and goal, Dillon was wide open scrambling to the same side Rodgers was scrambling and Rodgers threw it two feet behind him on about a 6 yard pass.
Let's deal with that one shall we. Yes it was a 6 yard pass and no you don't throw it to the defender when your guy can sit in the open spot. i can hear it now when he throws it out front and Dillon gets rocked and drops it. "he shouldn't have led him into a defender, he's losing it"
 

Mondio

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Later, Jones had his man beat down the sideline by a couple of strides. Instead of hitting him in stride for a sure TD, he under threw him by about 4 yards, forcing him to slow down and ended up with the pass defended.
This ball too, was not underthrown, he put too much loft on it. It wasn't the throw it needed to be, so i'm not defending it as a good throw. But it was not underthrown, it hung in the air too long. No way you throw it deeper, the defender was coming from deeper. ALl that would have done was shorten the distance he had to go and led Jones closer to him. Ball should have been more on a rope.
 

BrokenArrow

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MLF Lazard 4th and 1 outside run Packers leave 3 points on the field
Perfect example of how you completely ignore Rodgers' mistakes and blame others. MLF didn't call the sweep to Lazard. It was an audible by Rodgers.
 

thequick12

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Perfect example of how you completely ignore Rodgers' mistakes and blame others. MLF didn't call the sweep to Lazard. It was an audible by Rodgers.

How was I supposed to know that was an audible by Rodgers, and how do you know?
 

BrokenArrow

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Let's deal with that one shall we. Yes it was a 6 yard pass and no you don't throw it to the defender when your guy can sit in the open spot. i can hear it now when he throws it out front and Dillon gets rocked and drops it. "he shouldn't have led him into a defender, he's losing it"
Go back and watch the play. If Dillon had stopped he would not have been open because there was a defender trailing him as well as #34 between him and Rodgers. All Rodgers had to do was lead him slightly in front and low. Blame Dillon all you want but there's nothing more he could have done. A $50M QB should make that throw. The other option would have been the pump fake and run to the pylon. He had plenty of room.
 

thequick12

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How about we stick with the most recent history? You want to blame everyone else. Fine. But here are the facts. On 3rd and goal, Dillon was wide open scrambling to the same side Rodgers was scrambling and Rodgers threw it two feet behind him on about a 6 yard pass. Later, Jones had his man beat down the sideline by a couple of strides. Instead of hitting him in stride for a sure TD, he under threw him by about 4 yards, forcing him to slow down and ended up with the pass defended. Now you go ahead and blame Dillon and Jones for that if you want, but this is who Aaron Rodgers is now. But I understand you'll never hold Rodgers accountable and no matter how poorly he plays you'll continue to insist he's still a top tier QB.

I believe I said something like if you expect the qb to make up for HIS mistakes...I never said Rodgers made no mistakes. Minus the 4 drops he had 6 incompletions. Some of which were 100 % his fault. I too was disappointed he missed both of those throws badly. Normally he puts those right on the money. But everyone makes mistakes. Id say at least 2 of those other incompletions were caused by the Oline out of the 6. So Rodgers should have gone 23 of 27 for 300 some yards Thats a much different game if some other guys make a few less mistakes. But hey its a team game
 

Mondio

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How was I supposed to know that was an audible by Rodgers, and how do you know?
The only plays I know who called what were the last series by GB from comments made by both QB and Head Coach. After that I have no idea who called or changed what.
 

BrokenArrow

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How was I supposed to know that was an audible by Rodgers, and how do you know?
The DL makes a shift to their right after Tonyan goes in motion. Rodgers immediately glances over at Lazard and calls "Chill Alaska! Chill Alaska!" That's an audible and it ran Lazard right into the teeth of their defense.

If you look at the defensive alignment, after the shift they had their tackles lined up over our guards with nobody over the center and their linebackers were 3.5 yards off the LOS. If Rodgers had instead audibled to a QB sneak (or maybe that's what MLF actually called?), it would have been a pretty easy first down.

But don't take my word for it go back and watch the play for yourself. You'll see the motion, the shift, the resulting defensive alignment, and the audible. You'll also see the push our OL got up the middle that confirms the likelihood that a sneak would have been successful.
 
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Mondio

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Go back and watch the play. If Dillon had stopped he would not have been open because there was a defender trailing him as well as #34 between him and Rodgers. All Rodgers had to do was lead him slightly in front and low. Blame Dillon all you want but there's nothing more he could have done. A $50M QB should make that throw. The other option would have been the pump fake and run to the pylon. He had plenty of room.
I didn't blame Dillon, it was a miscommunciation between the 2. Throwing where he did didn't allow any defender to do anything, so I don't believe I need to go back and watch it. #34 wasn't in the way, as he very much threw the ball right into the opening. it happened, I don't have to guess about it.
 

BrokenArrow

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I believe I said something like if you expect the qb to make up for HIS mistakes...I never said Rodgers made no mistakes. Minus the 4 drops he had 6 incompletions. Some of which were 100 % his fault. I too was disappointed he missed both of those throws badly. Normally he puts those right on the money. But everyone makes mistakes. Id say at least 2 of those other incompletions were caused by the Oline out of the 6. So Rodgers should have gone 23 of 27 for 300 some yards Thats a much different game if some other guys make a few less mistakes. But hey its a team game
Okay, but that works both ways. Tonyan made a fantastic catch on a poorly thrown ball that could easily have been another INT and Watson also made a fantastic catch on a poorly thrown ball. It's not just his completions. It's the quality of his completions. He doesn't hit his receivers in stride on crossing routes that often anymore, forcing his receivers to make adjustments and limiting their ability to pick up extra yards. The very best pass on a crossing route we saw all season, BAR NONE, was the one from Love to Watson a few weeks ago. It's an accuracy issue and it's pretty much been that way since he broke his collarbone in 2017. I don't think you can objectively say his accuracy has ever been the same since.
 

BrokenArrow

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I didn't blame Dillon, it was a miscommunciation between the 2. Throwing where he did didn't allow any defender to do anything, so I don't believe I need to go back and watch it. #34 wasn't in the way, as he very much threw the ball right into the opening. it happened, I don't have to guess about it.
I'm not sure how you expect a 250 lbs guy to defy the laws of physics and stop on a dime. If you think it was a good throw I guess there's not much left to say about it. SMH
 

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