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Keep the rest of our powder dry?

Discussion in 'Green Bay Packers Fan Forum' started by AKCheese, Mar 18, 2020.

  1. Heyjoe4

    Heyjoe4 Cheesehead

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    You nailed it. Dear Leader, for whatever twisted reason, won’t use the War Powers Act to enforce production of needed supplies. So the states are competing with each other and the suppliers. That’s just nuts.
     
  2. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I don't think you understand the situation. The US is the poorest equiped structurally and in leadership among industrialized countries to handle this problem. The Senate is about to pass a $2 trillion "relief" package, double what was spent on the financial crisis bailout. Of course, those bailouts were fully paid back, with interest. While we await the details on this package, you can expect most of that money will not be paid back.

    At this stage, you might as well call the US ground zero.

    It will be of interest to see how much of this "relief" is supply-side vs. how much will go directly into the hands of those who need it and will spend it. 40% of US households don't have $400 in the bank. Those households are heavily weighted to the kinds of service jobs experiencing heavy layoffs. I would hope, but don't expect, a federal supplement to state unemployment insurance.

    Targetted business loans are in order. We don't need a mass of bunkruptices triggering a debt crisis on top of everything else.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  3. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    He's more about the distribution of credit and blame than goods and services. He even pulled out the G.W. Bush/Chaney gambit, "I am a war time president," a campaign proclamation. This happens to be one of those things that will resist lies, spin, hyperbole, happy talk, self-aggrandisement and, ultimately, bureaucratic and technocratic imcompetence.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  4. Heyjoe4

    Heyjoe4 Cheesehead

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    Yeah I heard Trump say he “hopes” corporations don’t spend the aid on stock buybacks (which do nothing for the economy and only support the stock price). He ”hopes” they don’t do it? How about “Here’s $xxx,xxx,xxx. Do NOT [email protected]#$%$# spend it on buybacks or your sorry A$$ will be in jail!”

    War-Time President. Big Man. Yeah, right.

    (Sorry, that was all political and had nothing to do with the Pack. I just couldn’t resist.)
     
  5. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Absurd. Every analyst and his brother predicted that the corporate tax cuts would go largely to stock buybacks. Why?

    1) Coporations were already borrowing hand over fist at low interest rates to buy back shares to boost share prices. What were they going to do with free money?
    2) The "greatest economy in history" was only growing at 2.0 - 2.5%, pretty sluggish, not requiring accelerated corporate investment.
    3) There was no shorage of productive capacity.

    It was those very buybacks that boosted the stock market that Trump so proudly proclaimed was his doing! Is he a fool or a liar? It really doesn't matter and I'm beyond trying to guess which or both.

    Right now, any money going to corporations or small businesses should be targetted to preventing their loans from being called. It wouldn't take many weeks or months for many businesses seeing sharply depressed or zero revenue coming in the door to be in violation of loan covenents or outright default on loan payments. Again, the last thing we need is a debt crisis.

    I make no appologies for being off topic.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  6. Heyjoe4

    Heyjoe4 Cheesehead

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    Well I see the point at which the Dems and GOP are divided today is just this. The GOP wants no limits on how the money is spent. Hey I’m an investor and I’m as sick as anybody about what is happening. But saving lives should be the guiding light for all these legislators, for all of us. On top of the virus, it’s sickening, as is Dear Leader’s reluctance to act on the War Powers Act and repurpose as much manufacturing as possible on desperately needed medical supplies. What a country we live in.

    All we have to do to save lives is stay the hell home and watch Netflix. How tough is that?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Here's a fun story.

    A couple of nights ago Rand Paul tried to highjack Senate deliberations on the crisis relief package with a call for a bill to end the Afghaniston war which all but ended anyway.

    Guess who has now contracted the Corona virus? Yeah, you guessed, in the "there is some justice in this world" department.
     
  8. rmontro

    rmontro Cheesehead

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    I would like to see the politicians focus on the problems at hand right now, instead of engaging in political sniping against each other. I see that was too much to ask, however.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Heyjoe4

    Heyjoe4 Cheesehead

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    Rand Paul. Ugh. I don’t like the guy but wouldn’t wish this virus on anyone. At the same time, Karma can be kind or cruel. That’s up to the individual. Any deliberations in Congress other than fighting this virus need to be tabled, or there won’t be anything to debate.
     
  10. Heyjoe4

    Heyjoe4 Cheesehead

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    I’m generalizing, but our representatives are too stupid or too greedy or just plain lack any empathy to make progress on this virus. It’s not just the #1 priority right now, it’s the only priority.
     
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  11. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That's because it is easier to administer. Once money goes into a corporate coffer it is impossible to know how it was spent because you do not know what money would have been spent on what in the absence of that injection. It was the same approach in the financial crisis in the absence of viable alternatives in an immediate time frame.

    It seems to me money should be loaned on the basis of a claim of impending insolvancy to be reviewed and clawed back later on a case by case basis. That requires a deep state with deep competency. As it stands, $2 trillion probably will not be enough given the high leverage in the economy, corporate and household, using blunt instruments.
     
  12. Poppa San

    Poppa San Levelheaded Staff Member Super Moderator Moderator

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    What would change if it were implemented? Seizure of stockpiles? Food is being produced. Non medical equipment manufacturers are getting into the game. ABCnews
    Ventilators?
    Detroit won’t save us from a ventilator shortage anytime soon
    Military response
    Temporary hospitals
    Until now, all of the above appear to have been freely offered, not taken under threat, which the war powers act implies.
    Do you have a cite for the following as I can't seem to be able to verify it:
    I can't find the cite now but an article I read or saw supports the idea that the number of new hospital cases is a better indicator of success than the number of positive tests. The only way the cases number works is if everyone was tested on an ongoing basis, which isn't happening here or anywhere besides South Korea and possibly Taiwan. The hospitalization numbers are the goal of the current methods.
     
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  13. Heyjoe4

    Heyjoe4 Cheesehead

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    Good point. Well even if the funds are used to reduce the record levels of debt, across the board, that will be useful. And hopefully some of those companies will choose to keep paying people something. The economy rides on the backs of the consumers.
     
  14. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    What the current approach implies is that the supplies and equipment produced will go to the orders placed first or the highest bidders, not necessarily where they are most needed. If a private producer has more orders than can be filled immediately, you are leaving it to that company to decide where they go. Or, as Trump stated, "We are not a shipping clerk", which is exactly what he needs to be, directing where these products go. Since the Administration has been gutted of expertise, that may not be possible.

    In the "closing the barn door after the cow got out" department, for those stuck at home and interested in matters of bureucratic competence or lack thereof, I suggest reading Michael Lewis' "The Fith Risk". That's if Amazon will even ship it as a non-essential.

    As for the Pentagon and the Army Corps, they are are on stand-by, not in the fray.

    Hospitalized patients is not a good measure of the extent of the crisis. There are only so many beds. If demand exceeds supply then....
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  15. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    It's not about reducing the level of debt. That's not possible. It's about preventing defaults on the debt that already exists. Cascading defaults take bad to worse to very, very bad.

    If I default on my debt to you, the loss of those payments to you may result on your default to your creditors, and on down the line to the banks and shadow banks.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  16. Sky King

    Sky King 158.3

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    If you are trying to cut through the myriad levels of political and panic baloney to achieve some relief regarding our present crisis, consider the attached perspective:

    Subject:
    Ross Rant March 18, 2020

    [​IMG]
    The world will never be the same.
    ..<the main body of what appears to be a paid subscription article has been deleted by a moderator as a violation of our rules>...
    Humans rise to the occasion, and the virus is nothing at all by comparison. America is rising up and will be better than ever.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 23, 2020
  17. rmontro

    rmontro Cheesehead

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    No wonder their leader is saying the virus is man made by the US, and is specifically designed to genetically attack Iranians. He wants to redirect the hate. No better scapegoat in the middle east than the good old US of A.
     
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  18. AKCheese

    AKCheese Cheesehead

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    Stupid should be painful. (And now it is)
     
  19. Poppa San

    Poppa San Levelheaded Staff Member Super Moderator Moderator

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    Did you create this or can you put a link to the article? If it is from a paysite, which my research seems to indicate, then well
    I deleted the content. If I was in error, link to the site as the rules state.
     

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