Josh Jones at ILB?

[Curly Calhoun]

I'd be interested to see what the players union thinks about that.

Expanded rosters would mean expanded membership - I would guess they'd be for it.

 

[pizzle]

It doesn't make any sense to have eight defensive backs on the field as the offense is only allowed to have five eligible pass catchers on the field.

We're playing the Bengals-up 38-28 on them with 7 mins left in the game. They're in 10 personnel. Their WRs are A.J. Green (6'4'' All-Pro) Brandon LaFell (big, sneaky fast 6'2'' guy) rookies John Ross (aka Mr. 4.22) and Josh Malone (6'3'' w/4.4 speed). Oh, as a kicker-the lone back is Joe Mixon-a GREAT receiving RB.

I would assume that bracketing Green is a no-brainer in this situation. You'd next prolly want HHCD deep as your last line of defense as a definite. But doing that could take away from some of the things you might want to be able to call if you're Dom, especially if you're also worried about Mixon carving you up on angle/choice/streak routes either out of the backfield or motioning out of the backfield altogether. What if LaFell/Malone is hot, and Dalton is just throwing away from HHCD as much as possible, so him being used as a safety over-the-top on A.J. is what they want to get single coverage for the #2/#3 WR? How do you double Green and Ross if you are worried about the speed merchant just as much on certain formations without leaving your defense very vulnerable elsewhere? You might want to have 2 deep safeties AND still have some DBs underneath to handle screens and quick-hitters. You're gonna need your "tall corners" to match up with Cincinnati's size AND guys to handle the slot vs Ross and/or Mixon. It would also help to have at least one middle defender closer to the LOS in order to make up for any mistakes/misses in assignment/technique that leave a receiver open, especially if GB was running man. A clean-up guy before you even get to HHCD, if you will.

So, you SURE there wouldn't EVER be a scenario where we could put 8 DBs out on the field? Cuz I see some with the schedule we have...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

We're playing the Bengals-up 38-28 on them with 7 mins left in the game. They're in 10 personnel. Their WRs are A.J. Green (6'4'' All-Pro) Brandon LaFell (big, sneaky fast 6'2'' guy) rookies John Ross (aka Mr. 4.22) and Josh Malone (6'3'' w/4.4 speed). Oh, as a kicker-the lone back is Joe Mixon-a GREAT receiving RB.

I would assume that bracketing Green is a no-brainer in this situation. You'd next prolly want HHCD deep as your last line of defense as a definite. But doing that could take away from some of the things you might want to be able to call if you're Dom, especially if you're also worried about Mixon carving you up on angle/choice/streak routes either out of the backfield or motioning out of the backfield altogether. What if LaFell/Malone is hot, and Dalton is just throwing away from HHCD as much as possible, so him being used as a safety over-the-top on A.J. is what they want to get single coverage for the #2/#3 WR? How do you double Green and Ross if you are worried about the speed merchant just as much on certain formations without leaving your defense very vulnerable elsewhere? You might want to have 2 deep safeties AND still have some DBs underneath to handle screens and quick-hitters. You're gonna need your "tall corners" to match up with Cincinnati's size AND guys to handle the slot vs Ross and/or Mixon. It would also help to have at least one middle defender closer to the LOS in order to make up for any mistakes/misses in assignment/technique that leave a receiver open, especially if GB was running man. A clean-up guy before you even get to HHCD, if you will.

So, you SURE there wouldn't EVER be a scenario where we could put 8 DBs out on the field? Cuz I see some with the schedule we have...

A hail mary is the only situation I would be fine with putting eight defensive backs on the field. In any other situation teams would successfully run against that formation.

 

[brandon2348]

I know you were impressed by Hawkins last offseason but the only thing I remember is him getting burned badly by Marvin Jones on a 70+ yard touchdown receptions on one of only a handful of snaps he played last season.

Hawkins had some growing pains for sure last season but I just think he has a higher ceiling then Goodson or Rollins. I belive he can be someone that can develop into tracking smaller and fast receivers in the slot. He is someone worth developing IMO.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Hawkins had some growing pains for sure last season but I just think he has a higher ceiling then Goodson or Rollins. I belive he can be someone that can develop into tracking smaller and fast receivers in the slot. He is someone worth developing IMO.

It's possible that Hawkins is a more talented player than Goodson but in my opinion Rollins has a higher ceiling than the former undrafted rookie. I agree he's worth trying to develop though.

 

[brandon2348]

It's possible that Hawkins is a more talented player than Goodson but in my opinion Rollins has a higher ceiling than the former undrafted rookie. I agree he's worth trying to develop though.

I think Rollins is headed toward "bust status". Lacks speed and quick twitch to keep up with receivers in slot. He isn't all that tall and isn't a great tackler either. Nothing special about this guy and all he can really do is jump and has decent ball skills. There is nowhere really to put him because of his size/speed combo. His "love for the game" has been questioned by some scouts. I think this guy is a failed TT experiment. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a bad camp that he gets cut and should of never been drafted in second round.

Hawkins is much faster and has more explosion. He is real scrappy for a guy his size and likes to hit. I believe he is more instinctive then Rollins as well, Just see more to work with here.

Lenzy Pipkins would be the guy to watch this year as a UDFA.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think Rollins is headed toward "bust status". Lacks speed and quick twitch to keep up with receivers in slot. He isn't all that tall and isn't a great tackler either. Nothing special about this guy and all he can really do is jump and has decent ball skills. There is nowhere really to put him because of his size/speed combo. His "love for the game" has been questioned by some scouts. I think this guy is a failed TT experiment. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a bad camp that he gets cut and should of never been drafted in second round.

Rollins actually had a decent rookie season but regressed for whatever reason in 2016. I fully expect him to make the final roster though.

 

[RRyder]

I think Rollins is headed toward "bust status". Lacks speed and quick twitch to keep up with receivers in slot. He isn't all that tall and isn't a great tackler either. Nothing special about this guy and all he can really do is jump and has decent ball skills. There is nowhere really to put him because of his size/speed combo. His "love for the game" has been questioned by some scouts. I think this guy is a failed TT experiment. I wouldn't be surprised if he has a bad camp that he gets cut and should of never been drafted in second round.

Hawkins is much faster and has more explosion. He is real scrappy for a guy his size and likes to hit. I believe he is more instinctive then Rollins as well, Just see more to work with here.

Lenzy Pipkins would be the guy to watch this year as a UDFA.

This first paragraph is so close to things posted about Adams last year it's scary.

If I had to bet on one of Randall/Rollins turning the corner it'd be Rollins in a heartbeat. The ball skills are their along with the natural talent to play the position. Technique is the issue but that should hardly be a suprise considering he's been playing CB and competitive football for the whopping last 3 years.

I just cant understand why people are so quick to label a guy a bust after one bad season which was preceded by a promising one

 

[brandon2348]

This first paragraph is so close to things posted about Adams last year it's scary.

If I had to bet on one of Randall/Rollins turning the corner it'd be Rollins in a heartbeat. The ball skills are their along with the natural talent to play the position. Technique I'd the issue but that should hardly be a suprise considering he's been playing CB and competitive football for the whopping last 3 years.

I just cant understand why people are so quick to label a guy a bust after one bad season which was preceded by a promising one

Rollins is a slug. He had a handful of plays as a rookie but this guy isn't proven by any means. Even if you go back to college he had one season at Miami of Ohio. He is a basketball player that wanted to try football because he thought he would have a better chance going pro.

Adams had a concentration and confidence issue in second season and was hurt as well. Rollins is basically a 4.6 forty guy and you can't teach speed so I don't see the comparison. Why in the hell TT drafted a guy that isn't a freak athlete that had one season playing football at Miami of Ohio in the second round is beyond me. This Rollins/Adams comparison doesn't go to far with me. Rollins simply doesn't have the skill set to get where he needs to be in the NFL. Even his 3 cone is terrible. The guy simply doesn't have it.

 

[brandon2348]

This first paragraph is so close to things posted about Adams last year it's scary.

If I had to bet on one of Randall/Rollins turning the corner it'd be Rollins in a heartbeat. The ball skills are their along with the natural talent to play the position. Technique I'd the issue but that should hardly be a suprise considering he's been playing CB and competitive football for the whopping last 3 years.

I just cant understand why people are so quick to label a guy a bust after one bad season which was preceded by a promising one

Also WR's have the luxury of dictating routes while DB's have to react to routes so it makes for quite a difference. There is very little to no replacement for speed and quick twitch in the secondary.

 

[OldSchool101]

We're playing the Bengals-up 38-28 on them with 7 mins left in the game. They're in 10 personnel. Their WRs are A.J. Green (6'4'' All-Pro) Brandon LaFell (big, sneaky fast 6'2'' guy) rookies John Ross (aka Mr. 4.22) and Josh Malone (6'3'' w/4.4 speed). Oh, as a kicker-the lone back is Joe Mixon-a GREAT receiving RB.

I would assume that bracketing Green is a no-brainer in this situation. You'd next prolly want HHCD deep as your last line of defense as a definite. But doing that could take away from some of the things you might want to be able to call if you're Dom, especially if you're also worried about Mixon carving you up on angle/choice/streak routes either out of the backfield or motioning out of the backfield altogether. What if LaFell/Malone is hot, and Dalton is just throwing away from HHCD as much as possible, so him being used as a safety over-the-top on A.J. is what they want to get single coverage for the #2/#3 WR? How do you double Green and Ross if you are worried about the speed merchant just as much on certain formations without leaving your defense very vulnerable elsewhere? You might want to have 2 deep safeties AND still have some DBs underneath to handle screens and quick-hitters. You're gonna need your "tall corners" to match up with Cincinnati's size AND guys to handle the slot vs Ross and/or Mixon. It would also help to have at least one middle defender closer to the LOS in order to make up for any mistakes/misses in assignment/technique that leave a receiver open, especially if GB was running man. A clean-up guy before you even get to HHCD, if you will.

So, you SURE there wouldn't EVER be a scenario where we could put 8 DBs out on the field? Cuz I see some with the schedule we have...

One of the primary factors in allowing teams to catch up is called "playing on your heels". IMO, One of the most glaring defects of our team specifically is playing "not to lose" (rushing 2-3 Defenders) Allowing an opposing QB to carve you apart or run to the sidelines for a first down and controlling the clock under 5 minutes, with zero pass rush and no containment has been the Achilles heel of our Defense. A good QB will carve you apart with 11 DBs its not an IF it's a WHEN. Our D team can't even defend a sideline when we know that's exactly that's where they will throw.
I have been a student of the 3 man rush drop 8 for a decade because it is and has been a glaring weakness in our ability to close games and it almost ALWAYS fails with rare exception.
Give me a pass rush that limits the QBs ability to make a big play by disturbing his timing, foot plant placement, makes him improvise and run out of bounds for a 1 yard loss AND offers the opportunity of a turnover with a sack, a batted pass, or a .5 sec early forced throw and I'll give you a game finished properly.
If we do this drop 8 again this year in that scenario. We will 99% chance lose against a playoff caliber Offense.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

One of the primary factors in allowing teams to catch up is called "playing on your heels". IMO, One of the most glaring defects of our team specifically is playing "not to lose" (rushing 2-3 Defenders) Allowing an opposing QB to carve you apart with zero pass rush and no containment has been the Achilles heel of our Defense. A good QB will carve you apart with 11 DBs its not an IF it's a WHEN.
I have been a student of the 3 man rush drop 8 for a decade because it is and has been a glaring weakness in our ability to close games and it almost ALWAYS fails with rare exception.
Give me a pass rush that limits the QBs ability to make a big play by disturbing his timing, foot plant placement, makes him improvise AND offers the opportunity of a turnover with a sack, a batted pass, or a .5 sec early forced throw and I'll give you a game finished properly.
If we do this drop 8 again this year in that scenario. We will 99% chance lose against a playoff caliber Offense.

The Packers actually allowed less yards per play rushing either two or three compared to when trying to put pressure on the quarterback with four or more last season.

 

[OldSchool101]

The Packers actually allowed less yards per play rushing either two or three compared to when trying to put pressure on the quarterback with four or more last season.

I clearly watched us give up points and first downs on 3rd and a mile on multiple occasions and on many key plays. Some of those were inside the opponents 5 yard line with them backed up and the noose tightened or on the edge of field goal range. Instead our opponent picked up a 1st down or scored points while we helplessly watched 8 men in zone coverage run into one another.
While Im typically an advocate for statistics.. "last year" those very statistics dont bode well for a team ranked near dead last in several key Defensive categories.
You can win the statistic battle and still lose the war

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I clearly watched us give up points and first downs on 3rd and a mile on multiple occasions and on many key plays. Some of those were inside the opponents 5 yard line with them backed up and the noose tightened or on the edge of field goal range. Instead they picked up a 1st down or scored points while we helplessly watched 8 men in zone coverage run into one another.
While Im typically an advocate for statistics.. "last year" those very statistics dont bode well for a team ranked near dead last in several key Defensive categories.
You can win the statistic battle and still lose the war

FWIW the Packers allowed 6.5 yards per pass when rushing two or three players last season, ranking 21st in the league. The team was dead last in the NFL allowing an average of 8.0 yards sending four guys after the quarterback in 2016.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

FWIW the Packers allowed 6.5 yards per pass when rushing two or three players last season, ranking 21st in the league. The team was dead last in the NFL allowing an average of 8.0 yards sending four guys after the quarterback in 2016.

Must be some really exotic blitz packages Capers is throwing out there. Offenses clearly don't know how to handle them.

 

[Poppa San]

We're playing the Bengals-up 38-28 on them with 7 mins left in the game. They're in 10 personnel.

Dom will call his prevent zone allowing the 4-8 yard shorter passes to force a 10 play drive and bleed the clock. 7 minutes is a lot of game time and 10 points at that point is not very much. Way too much time for Cincinnati to be in their 2 minute offense. They might be using a no huddle but not really rushing it. Don't expect spiking the ball or sideline routes exclusively yet. If Mixon can reel of 4-6 8 yard runs, that would be good for them. Against 8 DBs? Expect it. If they take 3-4 minutes to score a TD, they are in good shape if they've held their time outs. If so, it would be imperative for the Packers offense to get a first down or two on the ensuing drive. I wouldn't expect an onside kick unless 2 of their timeouts were gone inside of about 3 minutes left in the game.

 

[OldSchool101]

FWIW the Packers allowed 6.5 yards per pass when rushing two or three players last season, ranking 21st in the league. The team was dead last in the NFL allowing an average of 8.0 yards sending four guys after the quarterback in 2016.

I guess neither example was very productive so I can see being discouraged with either result.
Good info and not at all what id expect.
While stats are good measure of predictability using 1 selective stat is more often than not misguided unless you have all the possible scenarios E.g, our opponent is at the 3 yard line and scores a TD that stat would come across as a "3 yard gain" etc.. but scored points obviously Trump the yardage statistic here (we had this scenario in 2016 because I was Mad we didn't have the box stacked) Also many 2 man rushes are used on a Hail Mary type play which are largely unsuccessful incompletions when the game is garbage time and therefore skew a particular yardage stat.
How about when we rush 2-3 what is the rushing average? Meaning obviously some of those plays allowed the QB to scramble out of bounds in order to reset the chains but might result in a short yardage 1st down that also saves the clock, which in my mind is much more advantageous than a 15 yard play that burns 30 seconds of clock when only 45 seconds are left. Once again skewed. Also, Not every play resulted in a pass.
How about 1st down %? Scoring %? In those scenarios? Using 1 stat is like using one line in an interview to depict the outcome of an entire interview.
I do appreciate the yardage stat though you wouldn't initially think that outcome at all

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I guess neither example was very productive so I can see being discouraged with either result.
Good info and not at all what id expect.
While stats are good measure of predictability using 1 selective stat is more often than not misguided unless you have all the possible scenarios E.g, our opponent is at the 3 yard line and scores a TD that stat would come across as a "3 yard gain" etc.. but scored points obviously Trump the yardage statistic here (we had this scenario in 2016 because I was Mad we didn't have the box stacked) Also many 2 man rushes are used on a Hail Mary type play which are largely unsuccessful incompletions when the game is garbage time and therefore skew a particular yardage stat.
How about when we rush 2-3 what is the rushing average? Meaning obviously some of those plays allowed the QB to scramble out of bounds in order to reset the chains but might result in a short yardage 1st down that also saves the clock, which in my mind is much more advantageous than a 15 yard play that burns 30 seconds of clock when only 45 seconds are left. Once again skewed. Also, Not every play resulted in a pass.
How about 1st down %? Scoring %? In those scenarios? Using 1 stat is like using one line in an interview to depict the outcome of an entire interview.
I do appreciate the yardage stat though you wouldn't initially think that outcome at all

I don't have access to detailed information like that but according to Football Outsiders the Packers had a success rate of 51% rushing two or three players (16th in the league) compared to 46% with four (29th) and 53% by blitzing (17th).

 

[Poppa San]

I guess neither example was very productive so I can see being discouraged with either result.
Good info and not at all what id expect.
While stats are good measure of predictability using 1 selective stat is more often than not misguided unless you have all the possible scenarios E.g, our opponent is at the 3 yard line and scores a TD that stat would come across as a "3 yard gain" etc.. but scored points obviously Trump the yardage statistic here (we had this scenario in 2016 because I was Mad we didn't have the box stacked) Also many 2 man rushes are used on a Hail Mary type play which are largely unsuccessful incompletions when the game is garbage time and therefore skew a particular yardage stat.
How about when we rush 2-3 what is the rushing average? Meaning obviously some of those plays allowed the QB to scramble out of bounds in order to reset the chains but might result in a short yardage 1st down that also saves the clock, which in my mind is much more advantageous than a 15 yard play that burns 30 seconds of clock when only 45 seconds are left. Once again skewed. Also, Not every play resulted in a pass.
How about 1st down %? Scoring %? In those scenarios? Using 1 stat is like using one line in an interview to depict the outcome of an entire interview.
I do appreciate the yardage stat though you wouldn't initially think that outcome at all

The statistics would be skewed the same for all the teams. You're comparing Cortland apples to Macintoshes.

 

[PikeBadger]

Expanded rosters would mean expanded membership - I would guess they'd be for it.

Agree with that part of the equation but it also would result in overall lower average salaries for the players.

 

[OldSchool101]

The statistics would be skewed the same for all the teams. You're comparing Cortland apples to Macintoshes.

You're right. I didn't catch the placement compared to other teams (21st) until just now, which is what makes a stat more relevant to me.

 

[JLW_51]

Here are my thoughts on Jones and the rest of the inside linebackers, what do you think, you think Matthews plays more inside this season, next to Jones? http://lastwordonprofootball.com/2017/06/02/change-philosophy-packers-inside-linebackers-horizon/

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Here are my thoughts on Jones and the rest of the inside linebackers, what do you think, you think Matthews plays more inside this season, next to Jones? http://lastwordonprofootball.com/2017/06/02/change-philosophy-packers-inside-linebackers-horizon/

I don't believe Matthews will line up inside a lot next season as the Packers lack talent at outside linebacker.

 

[JLW_51]

Yeah, that is what I have in the article, seems that with the lack of additions at OLB and Biegel being injured, he will stay put at OLB. Martinez or Ryan need to step up.

 

[Mike McCarthy]

Lowry's sample size is pretty small though at only 210 snaps.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Lowry had 2 sacks last year, while Matthews notched 5. I guess you could also say Matthews sample size was rather small last year as well. Maybe we should calculate out the $ amount per sack between the 2 for an adequate comparison of productivity???