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Johnny Jolly

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by El Guapo, Oct 24, 2013.

  1. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Every game brings another heart-warming story about Jolly. Most of us are elated at how well this is working out for both him and the Packers. Recent stories are that he brought about a change in attitude, a swagger, to the defensive line. Fantastic.

    I'm curious about how well you all think he will hold up through a possible 19-20 game season. Our D-line depth is surely helping keep his legs fresh, yet I still wonder when and if those legs are going to feel their age. I think it will be difficult for him to maintain his edge through the playoffs.

    I hope that I am wrong.
     
  2. Zartan

    Zartan Cheesehead

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    He will keep gaining strength every game. He was been a god send this season in stopping the Run.
     
  3. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    He's not taking a lot of snaps. If there's any problem here it's not his age. It's that he wasn't in the best football condition to start with. He should be fine with those 25 or so snaps per game.
     
  4. bubba

    bubba Cheesehead

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    This is off the subject but I just joined yesterday and would like to start a new thread but it is saying I have insufficient priviledges. Wonder If I could get a mod to explain this. Just a little confused? Maybe Im not doing something right.
     
  5. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    He outplays Raji every week.
     
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  6. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    You have to post some minimum number of messages first. I don't recall the exact number. Why not send a private mail to somebody who shows up as a "moderator" under their avatar?
     
  7. bubba

    bubba Cheesehead

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    Thanks HRE. Jolly is a beast in the middle of that line. A huge disruption and yes he is playing better than Raji. We may be better off signing Jolly to a long term deal. should come a lot cheaper than Raji.
     
  8. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    I think that's an exceedingly valid concern. But I have faith in our coaching staff to hold the same concern. I think they'll stay on top of it.
     
  9. Bus Cook

    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

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    Comeback player of the decade.
     
  10. I_am_smoked_cheddar

    I_am_smoked_cheddar Guest

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    images (51).jpg
     
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  11. Ogsponge

    Ogsponge Cheesehead

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    Don't get me wrong, Jolly has been great this year. That being said it is not just Jolly. For the first time since going to the 3/4 we finally have 3 behemoths on the defensive line. When you have 3 guys the size of Jolly, Pickett & Raji eating up 2 offensive lineman, it makes the all the linebackers so much better. Having all 3 of those guys at the same time makes a world of difference.
     
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  12. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Last time our run def was this good was......

    When Jolly was here
     
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  13. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    I think he will be fine. He got 3 years to rest his body and fully recover from the beating football inflicted on it. As someone stated above, the rotation depth will help him out alot. I also think that raji has been more accountable this year and played harder ALL THE TIME because of jolly's influence.
     
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  14. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Jolly's influence? Or is it the upcoming contract negotiation? In any case, I don't see Raji doing all that much in the pass rush which is supposed to be his strong suit. He's an adequate player likely asking for money than he's worth. It will be the Jennings story repeated, but without the histrionics.
     
  15. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Here are a couple of quotes from a jsonline story on Jolly a couple of days ago:
    The depth on the DL has been very important in keeping everyone fresh. But as the story says the next few games will present a big challenge to the run D.

    http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...ackers-run-defense-b99124434z1-228867051.html
     
  16. Royal Pain

    Royal Pain Cheesehead

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    Agreed. I don't think it's a coincidence that Hawk is making more of an impact this season.
     
  17. lambeaulambo

    lambeaulambo Cheesehead

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    Raji will be gone most assuredly. I don't give Pickett or Raji as much of the credit, but I do think Jolly has had an immense influence on the run stopping. Jones et al has helped as well. It is not a coincidence, it is the new blood that was plugged into the line that has made this possible.
     
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  18. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I think that we're all in agreement that Jolly is playing superbly, I'm still concerned that his age AND lengthy stint away from football will lessen his impact the deeper that we get into the season. We can all talk about the depth of our D-line, but he's still out there playing X number of reps each game. He's a 30 year old 320 man who hasn't gotten exercise like this in 3 years. I'm throwing down my Worry Card about his ability to be effective down stretch. Again, I really hope that I'm wrong. I just find it hard to be as optimistic as everyone else.
     
  19. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    According to the snap counts in McGinn’s rating columns, Raji has averaged 37 snaps per game vs. 27 for Pickett and 22.2 for Jolly. Pickett is 34 years old with a lot more “mileage” than the 30 year old Jolly and while Jolly wasn’t in football shape at the beginning of the season he hasn’t experienced the wear and tear Pickett’s older body has over the past three seasons. I’m not sure what that means regarding likelihood of injury for them.

    From what the players are saying, Jolly has infused the DL with a nastiness they previously lacked and that’s fantastic. But IMO that shouldn’t diminish the contribution Pickett and Raji have made vs. the run. Both of them have played the vast majority of snaps when they’re in their 3-4 base. For example vs. the 49ers the Packers were in base 51 times and that’s the exact number of snaps both Pickett and Raji played in that game, while Jolly played 35. Aside from the attitude adjustment, I think the biggest factor in the improvement in the run D is Jolly taking snaps away from CJ Wilson. Raji’s play has been disappointing to me because he hasn’t been consistent getting pressure vs. the pass. And I wouldn’t attribute much credit to Datone vs. the run as he and a very improved Mike Daniels have played mostly in sub packages vs. the pass.
     
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  20. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Yeah I love our DL depth right now.
    And I expect better things to come from Datone yet this season.
    Jolly's nastiness is good to have.... so is Mike Daniels.
    I don't expect Worthy back this year at all, but if we lose a couple of the DL guys, perhaps. But Worthy showed nothing last year while healthy.
     
  21. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    I don't quite get the anti-Raji attitude here. No, he's not Ndamukong Suh but he's been doing a good job stuffing the run and clogging the middle. The Packers should re-sign if they can considering that this may be Pickett's last season, unless Raji asks for too much.

    As for Worthy, he wasn't that ineffective. I'd rather have him on the roster than CJ Wilson. Worthy has potential and only played one season. Jolly and Daniels are both keepers for sure. Re-signing Raji and a rehabbed Worthy seems good to me. Hopefully Datone Jones will start to show something as the season goes on.

    The problem will be replacing Pickett which the Packers could try to do in the draft. If Finley doesn't return then TE may be our highest priority along with Safety and a good OLineman, but a good prospect at NT might be a good investment. Of the ones that will probably be out there for the 2014 draft, Louis Nix of ND is top rated and will probably go in the mid-1st round, so he's not an option. That leaves:

    Ra'Shede Hagemen of Minn
    DaQuan Jones of PS
    Daniel McCullers of TEN
    Beau Allen of WIS
    Danny Shelton of WASH

    Beau Allen's been a force for WIS' defense in a 3-4 and could be a good mid-round choice.
     
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  22. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    My guess is most of the anti-Raji attitude is based upon expectations, similar to AJ Hawk. And it’s a little worse for Raji because unlike Hawk, he had a fantastic sophomore season. He hasn’t come close to that production since - 6.5 of his career 10.5 sacks (in the regular season) came in 2010. If Raji will accept a contract reflecting the ability of a good, young run stopper I think he should be re-signed. If he wants one reflecting a 9th overall pick who is a dynamic presence in the DL (something he is not), they can’t, and shouldn’t re-sign him. If I had to guess today I'd guess the Packers staff have a higher opinion of him than many of us do and they'll re-sign him.

    I was a little disappointed in Worthy but I agree he wasn’t that ineffective. I was hoping his first-step-quickness would translate better to the NFL. In addition IMO he needed to get stronger and I hope he’s been able to do that as he’s rehabbed his ACL. Here’s a blurb from a jsonline story in May of this year:
    http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/208406671.html

    When he’s ready, Worthy replacing Wilson is a no-brainer IMO. Wilson is a try-hard guy who just doesn’t have enough natural talent. And for the Packers scheme Wilson needs about 20 more pounds of good weight. He’s about the size of a pass rushing/sub D lineman like Daniels and Datone without the pass rush or pass rush potential.

    When I break out the two types of DL necessary for the Packers scheme – run stopping/block eating DL who allow the LBs to make tackles and quicker pass rushers who usually play in the 2-man DL in the sub packages, the good news is the Packers are well stocked for the future in the later: Daniels’ shoulder has healed and without the brace we’re seeing his quickness and added power, Datone Jones has looked better as the season has progressed and IMO it’s reasonable to expect he’ll continue to get better, and a healthy Worthy also has good potential. And Mike Neal is still available for this duty.

    Right now the Packers have three very good run stopping/block eaters in Raji, Pickett, and Jolly. The problem is Raji becomes a UFA at the end of this season and Pickett has a lot of mileage on him. That’s the obvious spot that needs attention but that’s also one of the hardest to find. Thompson has said more than once that God only makes so many talented big men and he’s talking about NT types that the Packers call DTs on their roster (they label the other type of DL as DEs). I’m not a draftnik and to the extent I look at college talent before the draft I try to avoid Badgers because I’m a Badgers fan and biased. Also, I watch all the Badger games but don’t watch a lot of other college games so it’s hard for me to compare them to the rest of the talent in the draft. Having said all that, I love the idea of acquiring Beau Allen, particularly if he can be had for a 3rd rounder. He’s 6-3 and 325-330 pounds with a great motor.
     
  23. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    nfldraftscout.com ranks Beau Allen 17th. among senior DTs with a 7th. round / FA rating. While most of the 16 above him don't have NT/big body DE dimensions, one would reckon some big body underclassmen will eventually be added to the list.

    http://www.nfldraftscout.com/rating...ear=2014&sortby=tsxpos&order=ASC&startspot=10

    As for Raji, Hawk, et. al., speaking for myself I don't see it as a matter of failed expectations. I generally don't have any expectations of draft picks until I see them play NFL football, and then my expectations are based on how they play and progress regardless of draft position.

    For me it's a matter of value...what do they give us for what we pay them. Hawk played some middling ILB making Pro Bowl money after 2010. I liked him a lot more after the pay cut. His weight drop and improved speed seems to have helped his game; he looks like a decent value at this point.

    Raji...an off-and-on NT with an inconsistent motor. He's a decent player all-in-all. His rookie deal averaged out to about $4.5 mil per year. Have we gotten good value? I think so particularly given his first 2 years. Would $6 - $7 mil per year represent good value? Not in my opinion. Do the Packers have a higher opinion than mine and will consequently pay that kind of money? We'll see, but I doubt it. For that kind of money at DT/3-4 DE you expect a well-rounded player, decent in all aspects of the game and outstanding in some, a leader in his unit, a guy of at least Pro-Bowl-consideration-caliber in most years. I'd be disappointed if the Packers went over $5 mil per, or $5.5 mil if no alternatives emerge or Pickett retires. Somebody will likely want to pay him more.

    There is another consideration here...I don't believe any of the dozen or so teams playing 3-4 put 3 big body guys in their base DL. It's pretty typical to see a big NT of course, a big guy at strong side end, and a 295 - 300 lb. guy on the weak side as was the case with Cullen Jenkins. Neal was supposed to be that guy; Datone Jones is supposed to be that guy, presumably when he adds more bulk and experience. First round picks are supposed to be 3-down capable.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2013
  24. Trapped In Vikingville

    Trapped In Vikingville Trapped

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    Its great to see someone taking advantage of a second chance and really appreciating it. He is proving to turn out to be a pretty classy player. Kudos to him!! Great game tonight!
     
  25. Southpaw

    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

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    I think he might actually have a legit chance at winning CPOY if he can stay healthy. RG3 will probably end up wining it though
     

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