Joe Barry is our new DC

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Per Bill Huber:

“In terms of scoring, Washington was 29th in 2014 before Barry, 17th in 2015 and 19th in 2016 with Barry, and 27th under Greg Manusky in 2017. Detroit was 30th in 2006 before Barry, 32nd in 2007 and 2008 with Barry, and 32nd again under Gunther Cunningham in 2009.“


Fwiw, when he was with Detroit, his best LB was Paris Lemon. Some of you GB fans will remember him as a special teams player here for a few years. That was his BEST LB.

I’m not saying Barry is the best, or even great, but man, there’s only so much a coach can do! If the players stink, they stink.

I don't put as much weight into his time in Detroit. I suspect Rod Marinelli probably called most of the shots there, and Barry likely was just along for the ride. And we all know about Matt Millen and his work bringing in players.

What I find a bit troubling is what I read here

packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2021/02/06/green-bay-packers-pick-joe-barry-new-defensive-coordinator/4372651001/

Now, not sure whether it's good or bad to expect Barry to run the kind of scheme that Staley ran with the Rams. Might work, but we don't really know whether he'd be able to do that or not. He might be familiar with it, but he's not the architect of it.

Right now, this hire is looking an awful lot like this

https://www.packers.com/news/slowik-s-leadership-will-help-defense-2468454

 

[longtimefan]

His Washington rosters

 

[906Fan]

It's hard to judge the detroit years, but the guy was the DC the year before and the year the lions went 0-16. He was average with Washington, and recently the Rams have had good defenses. I bet this is the best the FO was willing to pay, playing moneyball with the coaching staff trying to find undervalued people.

 

[PackAttack12]

It's hard to judge the detroit years, but the guy was the DC the year before and the year the lions went 0-16. He was average with Washington, and recently the Rams have had good defenses. I bet this is the best the FO was willing to pay, playing moneyball with the coaching staff trying to find undervalued people.

Saying he was average with Washington is more than generous.

 

[Team Ronny]

Is gutey going to get him the players to be successful? He didn't give Pettine much to improve upon last season.

 

[adambr2]

Everything about Barry's career suggests great position coach, in over his head as defensive coordinator.

 

[pacmaniac]

He had 2 stints as DC, failed both times and fell back to a position coach, taking years before someone gave him another chance as DC. If he was good and just needed better players, I don't think he'd go so long before his next DC stint. MLF thinks he knows something the rest of the league doesn't.

 

[Dantés]

I don't put as much weight into his time in Detroit. I suspect Rod Marinelli probably called most of the shots there, and Barry likely was just along for the ride. And we all know about Matt Millen and his work bringing in players.

What I find a bit troubling is what I read here

packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2021/02/06/green-bay-packers-pick-joe-barry-new-defensive-coordinator/4372651001/

Now, not sure whether it's good or bad to expect Barry to run the kind of scheme that Staley ran with the Rams. Might work, but we don't really know whether he'd be able to do that or not. He might be familiar with it, but he's not the architect of it.

Right now, this hire is looking an awful lot like this

https://www.packers.com/news/slowik-s-leadership-will-help-defense-2468454

What a solid post out of you.

EDIT: To be clear-- this post is totally sincere. I fully expected to read a crazy screed, and it ended up being pretty reasonable.

 

[Dantés]

No one has declared this a failure.

The post immediately after mine openly wondered if the front office is trying to run the team into the ground on purpose.

 

[Dantés]

I’m already seeing blue checks on Twitter saying that Barry basically got the job over Evero because he’s white.

It’s fun how being openly prejudiced on the basis is skin color is now woke and inclusive!

 

[GleefulGary]

The post immediately after mine openly wondered if the front office is trying to run the team into the ground on purpose.

Ahem.

According to the Accordions dictionary, you’re using the term failure wrong.

 

[Jerellh528]

Is gutey going to get him the players to be successful? He didn't give Pettine much to improve upon last season.

Pettine had more than enough to field a consistently good D imo.

 

[PackinMSP]

Interesting ...

Honestly if Its some hybrid 3-4 Tampa 2 I would LOVE that as I think we have the personnel for that with 2 good safeties, fast middle linebackers (can they cover?) and this would actually "fit" Kevin Kings skillset better if we keep him

Obviously you let J'aire do his thing

Preston Smith is likely gone, although he did play under Barry before so who knows now

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Pettine had more than enough to field a consistently good D imo.

Eh, last year the defense was average over the entire season with a spectacular breakdown by Kevin King in the final game of the year. I'm not going to claim Gute was amazing, or even good, but I do question how a team with major holes at corner, ILB, and DE has more than enough to consistently field a good defense. Packers currently field good safeties, one elite CB, elite OLBs, and an elite DT; defenses are made or broken based on the number of holes they have and the Packers defense currently has many.

 

[PackinMSP]

Thing you guys are also forgetting is his SCHEME. .? I think it fits our current players fairly well and their skill sets

 

[adambr2]

The post immediately after mine openly wondered if the front office is trying to run the team into the ground on purpose.

I stand corrected. I sure can understand, however, how one would be pretty disgusted about hiring a DC who has never been higher than 28th in total defense in 4 seasons.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Now, not sure whether it's good or bad to expect Barry to run the kind of scheme that Staley ran with the Rams. Might work, but we don't really know whether he'd be able to do that or not. He might be familiar with it, but he's not the architect of it.

I kinda think the Rams success is based more upon having the best defensive lineman in the league (by far), one of the best corners in the NFL, two other corners that are terrific, and an elite safety. Now, I realize that scheme can help players on the field but, outside of having guys play man or zone, I don't know of any particular "scheme" that can turn bad corners into great corners. I don't think any scheme is going to turn Sullivan or Hollman into great corners nor do I believe that any scheme is going to turn Kenny Clark into Aaron Donald.

The Packer's roster, as of now, will feature one elite corner, one potentially decent corner, and perhaps 3 corners that have either been bad or not played. Cornerback is the most important position on defense (slightly above pass rusher) and a good defense needs at least 2 good corners and a workable third. Gute has some major work this offseason to fix the cornerback room.

 

[Dantés]

I stand corrected. I sure can understand, however, how one would be pretty disgusted about hiring a DC who has never been higher than 28th in total defense in 4 seasons.

I don’t know why people cite yards allowed instead of points.

 

[adambr2]

I don’t know why people cite yards allowed instead of points.

They both matter, and as always context is king. One piece of context is that Barry was on a lot of bad teams in which opposing offenses generally had big leads and played to kill clock.

But neither stat indicates success in Barry's case.

 

[Dantés]

Ok, Joe Barry. Here are my thoughts as succinctly as possible:

• The fact that he wasn't very successful in his first stops as a DC is a strike against him.

• Rod Marinelli went on from those Dolphins days to be a strong DC.

• Barry made a pretty decent improvement in Washington compared to what was going on before him.

• His coaching pedigree, especially recently, is strong-- Monte Kiffin, Rod Marinelli, Wade Phillips, and Brandon Staley.

• There are some good marks of success as a position coach (e.g. Cory Littleton, Alec Ogletree)

• Seems fairly plain to me that the Packers wanted someone to install and teach that defense that worked so well in LA last year.

• I'm not surprised that they believe Barry can do that job, given that Staley was going to bring him along to LA.

• Sometimes past failure at coordinator or head coach positions turns out to be a sign that a guy can't do the job.

• Sometimes past failure at coordinator or head coach positions precedes success (look up Vic Fangio's run in Houston, or his early days in Chicago).

• He reminds me a lot of the LaFleur hire-- good coaching pedigree, underwhelming results as a coordinator, hired to install the system that's working well in the league at the moment.

 

[Dantés]

They both matter, and as always context is king. One piece of context is that Barry was on a lot of bad teams in which opposing offenses generally had big leads and played to kill clock.

But neither stat indicates success in Barry's case.

The Redskins were +9 in scoring differential in 2015 and +13 in 2016. 7 of their 14 total losses in those seasons were by one score.

So that's a false narrative.

A part of context that is true is that the scoring defense improved in Washington when Barry took over. Does that context get to be king, or nah?

 

[adambr2]

The Redskins were +9 in scoring differential in 2015 and +13 in 2016. 7 of their 14 total losses in those seasons were by one score.

So that's a false narrative.

A part of context that is true is that the scoring defense improved in Washington when Barry took over. Does that context get to be king, or nah?

I was mainly referring to his Detroit teams when I said "really bad teams". I thought that was obvious, but apparently not.

I guess when you're taking over a 29th ranked scoring defense, it's hard not to get better. Although his unit did manage to give up much more yardage.

Sounds like you are really reaching to find reasons to love this move. It would be nice if there were something glowing about his resume other than, "well their players weren't very good, so what did you expect?"

 

[C-Lee]

He reminds me a lot of the LaFleur hire-- good coaching pedigree, underwhelming results as a coordinator, hired to install the system that's working well in the league at the moment.

I feel like this is the opposite of the LaFleur hire.

LaFleur was (is) young with one year as OC under his belt. He's been a breath of fresh air and awesome with this opportunity.

Barry has had chances, and I'm not banking on him finding the fountain of youth and giving the defense a newfound identity.

At the end of the day, I'm just underwhelmed, but there really wasn't a scenario where we'd be excited besides Leonard, who could have easily busted.

 

[adambr2]

I'm curious as to why Washington fired Barry after just 2 seasons if he just made that defense so much better.

 

[Dantés]

I get that most people don't like this hire, and that's fine. I have my opinions, but I get it.

But I am seriously blown away at how many flat out untrue things are being said about Barry by people that are upset. So far I've seen:

• He hasn't developed anyone at his positon.
• He was fired by the Bucs.
• He was fired by the Trojans.
• His Washington teams were constantly getting blown out.
• McVay and Staley both knew he was nothing more than a LB Coach.
• His improvement to scoring D in 2015 was somehow due to a bunch of players that were added in 2016.

All demonstrably untrue.

If this guy is so horrible, I'd think people could find more criticisms of him that are actually true.