1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

It seems that some of the fans forget...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Obi1, Jul 13, 2005.

  1. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,110
    Ratings:
    +0
    I read a LOT about how weak our defense was, and is presumed to be.

    Yes, our defense was VERY porous last year. I agree we haven't done much to upgrade our player personnel but let's not forget that we have upgraded with a different leader, a different approach and a different mindset at the helm of the defense, in Bates.

    USUALLY, having that kind of difference in the head position makes a huge difference in the mindset of the player.
    The one who might have missed important tackles, played out of position, missed assignements, was slow getting to the ball...etc.,, Seem to reduce and limit their mistakes.

    Ask this question... Was the DEFENSE THAT lacking in talent last year? Or were they just a bit complacent in going about their jobs and tasks?

    Was the problem REALLY in the lack of good players or in the lack of motivation, focus, and accountability?

    I think that it was more the latter and that the players were BETTER than what they've shown. I COULD be wrong but, I think this year, a STRONGER DC will bring the players' level of play up to where the Coaches, the fans, AND theplayers themselves expect to play.

    That may result in the Packers having the BEST year of this MILLENIUM. Who knows?

    At least I'd like to believe.....
     
  2. Robin Yount

    Robin Yount Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2005
    Messages:
    265
    Ratings:
    +0
    I think we only have a couple truly good D players that did not completely play up to their abilities last year for what ever reason (Barnett, KGB, Grady, Harris). The rest are average or below average as of now. Hopefully time will change that.
     
  3. Steel Wheels

    Steel Wheels Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    268
    Ratings:
    +0

    You're definately wrong...
     
  4. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,110
    Ratings:
    +0
    Why Chase?

    Are YOU saying that Bates WON'T make a difference?
     
  5. jdlax

    jdlax Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    818
    Ratings:
    +0
    It's definitely. I'm no Grammar Jim, but if you're going to preach to the other posters as if they are idiots and you're all knowing, at least spell the contents of your Gospel right.
     
  6. Steel Wheels

    Steel Wheels Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    268
    Ratings:
    +0

    Bates may make a difference with basics, motivation, focus, and accountability but the Packers lack the proper player personnel for him to make enough difference to get the Pack into the playoffs.
     
  7. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,110
    Ratings:
    +0
    The difference between Slowik and Bates WILL be the one that puts the Packers over the top.

    Bates scheme fits the Existing Packer players BETTER than Slowiks.

    His hiring was the BEST upgrade that the Packers could have made. It will come to fruition... Packers, by the hiring of Bates WILL have started on their way BACK to respectability on the defense.
     
  8. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,854
    Ratings:
    +1
    although I do agree that the hiring of Bates was a large step in the right direction, steelwheels is right...

    Few on here deny that KGB is a situational player at best, yet is the considered to be the best player on the line, w/ the exception of the oft-injured Grady. You could go on through the defense, but basically the Packer's starters as a whole are suspect at best coupled w/ some back-up projects.

    Yes, I think Bates can help a lot, and I have a lot of faith in what guys like Jenkins and Joey T. can accomplish this year, but lets be honest, this team sure appears to be lacking the true, PROVEN horses to get the job done, and Bates can only do so much.
     
  9. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,110
    Ratings:
    +0
    Musccy,

    How far did the Packers get w/o the horses last 3 years? With much less proven DC?

    Didn't the Pack reach playoffs?

    With a rejuvenated Defense and a more accountable, focused set of players, how far can we get?

    Personally, I am excited about the upcoming year...
     
  10. Chamuko

    Chamuko Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    1,067
    Ratings:
    +0
    Dear Obi:

    I trust Bates, my signate says it all.. :twisted:
     
  11. PackerChick

    PackerChick Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,143
    Ratings:
    +1
    Yes we did make the playoffs, but not too far. Lets go further this year. We must go further. Bates must make a difference.
     
  12. agopackgo4

    agopackgo4 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Messages:
    1,365
    Ratings:
    +0
    I agree 110%:) I think you are completely right. I had never thought of it like that before you make a really good point. Yes there were some who underachieved last year like KGB and Barnett and harris, and that could very very very possibily come from TERRIBILE COACHING!!!
     
  13. ArizonaPackerFan

    ArizonaPackerFan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2004
    Messages:
    729
    Ratings:
    +0
    I'm looking forward to seeing 11 defenders improve with better coaching.

    How much they improve is up for debate as is the talent level, but I can't see how they could get any worse than last year. I think it's a given that Bates will improve the defense. The question is how much? I don't know what the answer is, but I'm looking forward to finding out when the season begins. In Bates I trust! :D
     
  14. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    767
    Ratings:
    +0
    I would just like to address Steel Wheels, Musccy and the other nay-sayers that say the Pack do not have a chance this season.

    In 1958, the Pack suffered the worst losing streak in their entire history (1-10-1). Head Coach Ray "Scooter" McLean retired amid screams that the Pack were "a bunch of bums" among other insults. In 1959, Vince Lombardi was named Head Coach and General Manager. His first year he elevated the Pack to a 7-5 record and was named "Coach of the Year". The Pack finished no less than second from 1960 until 1967, and won World Championship titles in 1961, 1962, 1965, 1966 and 1967.

    The moral of this story? Guess who's names were among that "bunch of bums" on the 1958 roster during the worst season of Green Bay's history.

    Here's a hint: Starr, Hornung, Nitschke, Taylor and Ringo.

    Now what were you saying about a coach only being to do so much?

    Go Pack!

    Robert C. Hedley
     
  15. Gravedigger

    Gravedigger Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2004
    Messages:
    59
    Ratings:
    +0
    Absolutely Ob1!

    Bates will have this defense in the top 15, enough of an improvement for us to capture No. 13.
     
  16. net

    net Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    946
    Ratings:
    +62
    Jim Bates track record is what you need to look at. He made Jason Taylor a household name and a few others on the Dolphins defense. They had limited talent. He made them into names.

    While Minnesota hired a whole bunch of expensive parts and expects them to run as a finely-tuned engine(not likely given the egos), Bates will work to make the players HE HAS into a unit that plays together. Give me 11 no names busting butt and NOT MAKING MISTAKES over 11 guys who can't wait to talk to the media after the game, like the "Minnesota 11" will be.
     
  17. Bobby Roberts

    Bobby Roberts Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2005
    Messages:
    770
    Ratings:
    +0
    It doesn't matter that our defense is made up of a bunch of no names or unproven guys. Considering the salary cap, that's almost a given on most rosters. We've got a number of good, young, fast talented players on defense who are ready to show their skills.

    Last year in Slowik's defense, the schemes were continually changing. We also had to rely on young, unproven players. This led to hesitation and playes being out of position.

    By all accounts thusfar, Bates is sticking to his simple scheme. It will take some time for the players to excell in the new scheme, but just keeping it consistent will make a huge difference. It leads to players understanding where their teammates will be and therefore sticking to your own responsibilities. You don't have to be the fastest guy on the field as long as you're in the right position to make a play.
     
  18. Steel Wheels

    Steel Wheels Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    268
    Ratings:
    +0

    So in other words you are saying that Jim Bates will skip the evaluating year and go right to the top. Good Luck...you're going to need it.

    If you go back and compare the Packers 1959 and 1960 rosters you will find some changes in player personnel and some players who remained on the roster.

    After Bates evaluating season in 2005, he will make some changes in player personnel for 2006 but some players from 2005 will also remain on the roster.
     
  19. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2005
    Messages:
    767
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hey Steel,

    Please post whatever reference you have to 2005 being an "evaluation year" for Green Bay. The way you waffle between claims of 2005 being an "evaluation year" and a "rebuilding year" is amusing at best. A team does not go from a 10-6 record and an NFC Division title and start "rebuilding" or "evaluating". They make a serious attempt at beating that record and making the Super Bowl.

    BTW: After the 1958 1-10-1 season, which one was Lombardi's "evaluation" or "rebuilding year"? 1959? 1960? 1961?

    History speaks for itself. Lombardi made all the difference in turning what was called "a bunch of bums" in 1958 into the the beginnings of the greatest dynasty in professional football by the end of 1959. This is why he was named Coach of the Year after his first season with the Pack. You can't dispute history, my friend.

    In other words: Good coaching makes all the difference in the world. The differences between the accomplishments of the 1958 and 1959 Packers proves that point. This does not mean Bates will take the Green Bay defence "right to the top" in 2005, it means they will be greatly improved over last season. Combined with our top-rung offence, we will have a serious chance of going all the way. Not that I really expect you to understand that concept.

    Hey Steel... With an attitude like that, why don't you just start cheering for the Queens? You certainly sound like one of their fans already.

    Go Pack!

    Robert C. Hedley
     
  20. Steel Wheels

    Steel Wheels Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    268
    Ratings:
    +0
    You are in for a rude awakening....LMAO.
     
  21. PackerTraxx

    PackerTraxx Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,028
    Ratings:
    +0
    The defense will definitely be better than last year.
     
  22. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,110
    Ratings:
    +0
    What happen to 2004-2005? Aren't some players from 2004 remaining on the team and some leaving? Tell me why this year so different than your argument?

    Or are stats only important when it supports YOUR argument?
     
  23. ORRELSE

    ORRELSE Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2005
    Messages:
    280
    Ratings:
    +0
    I agree with that but I also see alot of people with the Green and Gold glasses on. I want nothing more than for the Packers to win. However, we have holes that can't be ignored. We have quite a few mysteries that need to be solved on this roster and we won't know anything about this team until the first couple of games are done. I for one am glad to see a different attitude take over. I hated Darren Sharper, he was a locker room killer. I think if anything, Bates is bringing a much better upbeat feeling and a desire to win. He's a proven motivator. We'll definitely improve on defense (how can we not?), but we have start winning the games we SHOULD win. No more playing to the level of the opponent and getting surprised.
     
  24. PackerChick

    PackerChick Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    3,143
    Ratings:
    +1
    Bates will have this defense in the top 15, enough of an improvement for us to capture No. 13.[/quote]

    Lets hope for a big difference with Bates. then maybe we can make him head coach.
     
  25. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,247
    Ratings:
    +9
    How about the Packers defense is just not very good and they do not have enough talent on that side of the ball? On top of that the offense has gotten weaker. When I pointed out that the Bears changed offensive coordinators and up graded in several positions on offense you went into your little rant about overachievers and typing words in CAPITALS again. Do you know anything at all about pro football? I say the answer to that would be NO. You may LOVE the Packers but you don't seem to be following the same game as EVERYONE ELSE.
     

Share This Page