Inside Linebacker Prospects

[HardRightEdge]

You know, at this point let's just grab one of them lol. The only thing that bothers me about Kendricks is a lot of people talk about his lack of aggressiveness and explosion into the running back. If he can hit and not be blown back 3-5 yards, I'll take him in a heart beat.

He can hit and not be blown back 3-5 yards. They mistake fluidity for lack of aggressiveness.

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

As a Georgia fan what say you as far as his tenacity...as that seems to be the only thing guys are claiming is keeping his rep down...some guys have the fire, some don't, others just need it re-lit.

I don't think he necessarily lacks tenacity, but that whole defense was a **** show last year. Georgia is always famous for having a few good prospects on D, but they don't stand out because the rest of the team really struggles. This leads to them being out of position while trying to make up for others. He doesn't play as aggressive as say Denzel, but he can tackle.

 

[ivo610]

So Chris Borland just retired...

 

[TJV]

I was somewhat surprised to see Tyler Dunne’s column for Packers Plus rating the ILBs in the draft.

 

[Vrill]

Paul Dawson was great against the pass while at TCU and the conference he played in is a pass happy league. Dawson had 4 INT's this past season, two of which he took back to the house for TD's.

I don't really get where the talk comes in that he'd be a liability against the pass....because he damn sure wasn't in College. Gary Patterson knows defense as good as anyone in College Football and he said that Dawson was the best LB that he's ever coached. He was TCU's Captain and playcaller on defense. He was a 3-down LB. Played all over the field and TCU ran a lot of hybrid 3-4 too.

Dawson's game tape speaks for itself. Hes a damn fine player and he'd help us.

 

[TJV]

I don't really get where the talk comes in that he'd be a liability against the pass...

Rightly or wrongly it comes from his combine 40 time, doesn't it?

 

[Vrill]

Rightly or wrongly it comes from his combine 40 time, doesn't it?

Football speed > 40 speed

Ive seen a lot of fast 40's not translate to the Football field worth a crap.

Dawson is a Football player with Football speed.

Jameis Winston ran a 4.9 40 and I watched him outrun the OK State defense on a 40 yard TD run.......

Some players are just "faster" when the bullets fly.

 

[PikeBadger]

Football speed > 40 speed

Ive seen a lot of fast 40's not translate to the Football field worth a crap.

Dawson is a Football player with Football speed.

Jameis Winston ran a 4.9 40 and I watched him outrun the OK State defense on a 40 yard TD run.......

Some players are just "faster" when the bullets fly.

This is absolutely one of the great truths of football. Past video on a guy doesn't lie. I believe fear and adrenaline has a lot to do with that.

 

[Mondio]

Rightly or wrongly it comes from his combine 40 time, doesn't it?

I think it's the 40 time and then the tape. Yes he had some INT's, but he looked very stone footed in coverage, at least from the "highlight" video I saw. He didn't cover receivers thru a zone, he mostly just grabbed as they ran by, and he had a few balls float his way.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Dawson didn't run THAT much slower than Borland did and Borland ended up being the best run stopping ILB in the NFL. Dawson is a perfect example why I'm against ANY ILB in the first. There are a few that all seem to be on the same tier (Kendrick, Dawson, Anthony and Perryman). To be honest, Anthony's measurables were insane compared to the other options at inside linebacker and I'm pretty sure if a tan wants to trade back up into the tail end of round one, the Packers will still have plenty of options at the top of round two (where Thompson actually has a better draft history).

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The obvious concern is if Dawson is paired with Barrington, won’t teams exploit them in the passing game?

Last season, the Big 12 defensive player of the year had 136 tackles (20 for loss), six sacks, four interceptions and two forced fumbles. In a conference that spreads linebackers thin — how NFL coordinators scheme each game, a point of concern with Denzel Perryman and Benardrick McKinney — Dawson maintained a cruel, downhill playing style while holding his own in coverage.

Paul Dawson was great against the pass while at TCU and the conference he played in is a pass happy league. Dawson had 4 INT's this past season, two of which he took back to the house for TD's.

I don't really get where the talk comes in that he'd be a liability against the pass....because he damn sure wasn't in College.

Rightly or wrongly it comes from his combine 40 time, doesn't it?

Dawson didn´t have to cover a lot of good TEs while playing in the Big 12.

The Horned Frogs faced a single tight end in a conference game last season who had at least 20 receptions in 2014 and that guy (Jimmy Mundine) had seven receptions for 137 yards and a TD in that game. BTW Mundine projects as a FB or H-back in the NFL and will most likely go undrafted next week.

I was surprised by Dunne´s ranking and I´m still convinced Dawson won´t be able to cover RBs and TEs on a regular basis in the NFL.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Dawson didn't run THAT much slower than Borland did and Borland ended up being the best run stopping ILB in the NFL. Dawson is a perfect example why I'm against ANY ILB in the first. There are a few that all seem to be on the same tier (Kendrick, Dawson, Anthony and Perryman). To be honest, Anthony's measurables were insane compared to the other options at inside linebacker and I'm pretty sure if a tan wants to trade back up into the tail end of round one, the Packers will still have plenty of options at the top of round two (where Thompson actually has a better draft history).

The Packers need a three down ILB capable of playing opposite of Barrington first and foremost. Dawson doesn´t fit that need.

 

[jetfixer]

Football speed > 40 speed

Ive seen a lot of fast 40's not translate to the Football field worth a crap.

Dawson is a Football player with Football speed.

Jameis Winston ran a 4.9 40 and I watched him outrun the OK State defense on a 40 yard TD run.......

Some players are just "faster" when the bullets fly.

I've read where Dawson's first step in gametime is the differance, meaning he is going the right way. Another guy can be faster, but if he takes the wrong path it really doesn't matter.
I don't know who is the best ILB for us......I hope Ted and the boys that count do!

 

[HardRightEdge]

I was somewhat surprised to see Tyler Dunne’s column for Packers Plus rating the ILBs in the draft: He lists Dawson at #1, followed by more conventional-wisdom picks Kendricks, McKinney, Anthony, and Perryman. He calls Dawson a “terrifying playmaker” and notes he improved his 40-yard dash time to 4.75 at his pro day. http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...-group-of-athletes-b99483157z1-301120071.html

Dunne continues this theme in a separate story titled, “TCU playmaker Paul Dawson may sharpen edge on Packers' D”. Of course he doesn’t mean the edge of the D, but the mental edge of players on D wanted to ensure the collapse that happened in Seattle never happens again. He mentions the anger of Barrington, frustration of Raji and the determination of Daniels and then writes: The obvious concern is if Dawson is paired with Barrington, won’t teams exploit them in the passing game? Covering receivers in the Big 12 doesn’t equal covering them in the NFL but that can be said of any college conference. http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...ers-defense-b99483081z1-300974741.html?page=1

Anyway, give Dunne credit for being unconventional. ... Or don't.

Mayock has continuously had Dawson as his #1 ILB since before the Combine, so Dunne's view is not unique. I could not agree more with Dunne's headline suggesting Dawson could bring a needed edge to the defense...he's a search and destroy type player.

Then there's the other side of the story.

Take a look at the the Texas tape in the following link with 4 specific plays I noted:

https://www.packerforum.com/threads/at-pick-30-corner-a-must.59407/page-4#post-606079

I believe there are a couple of concerns with Dawson.

- Coverage Ability: See the above post/link/comments.

- Speed: Several observers have noted his Combine 4.93/Pro Day 4.76 belie his field speed. One unnamed scout said his tape shows a 4.5 player. I dispute this. If you go through a couple of his game tapes, including the one above, you see a guy asked to play what's in front of him in a 25 yard range. Given the 40 times, I'd say he's a 25 yard player. He's highly instinctual and quick, but I don't see down field speed. In the NFL, he'll need to cover TEs down the seam and RBs on wheel routes or out of the slot. Playing next to Barrington (as Dunne and several of us have already noted), and in Capers' defense that runs a fair amount of man coverage and single high zone, pressure on his coverage skills would be more acute than in another defense or with a different partner. In another scheme or with different personnel, I might have Dawson as my #1 ILB as well.

- Coachability/Work Ethic/Conditioning: The Combine comes under a lot of criticism, much of it justified, for not measuring football playing ability. Dawson justified his abysmal Combine performance by saying he's a football player, not a track man. Fair enough, as far as it goes. Asking offensive linemen to run 40 yd. dashes, for example, may be a little silly. But there's another side to the Combine coin. A set of objectives and measureables are set out by the league. Many players do extensive work, often with professional coaching, to maximize performance in meeting Combine and workout goals. Dawson met the process with indifference. He claimed no physical impairments. Was he out of shape? Was he simply mentally flat because he did not take the process seriously? Hard to say. It was only after the blow back from that abysmal Combine performance did he start to take the process seriously or get himself in condition, whichever might apply, in order to put up improved numbers 6 weeks later at his Pro Day.

In the end, Barrington brings a similar style of play, if not quite so instinctual. He brings his own edge and chip-on-shoulder. The Packers would be better served with a complementary player. And I sure hope it's not McKinney.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The Packers need a three down ILB capable of playing opposite of Barrington first and foremost. Dawson doesn´t fit that need.

Why? In college he intercepted or deflected pass eight times last year (only two draft linebackers had more). Can he follow Graham down the seam? No, but no linebacker can, not even Kendricks. Dawson has the instincts and skill to cover players underneath. Just being fast isn't enough in the NFL, some players have instincts/reactions that let them play faster than other guys who time faster.

I'm not touting Dawson as the number one, just saying that there are three or four guys that are all about the same tier. I'm also not sure the team needs a three down linebacker with Matthews and Peppers already at linebacker. Not sure any rookie linebacker would beat out Richardson for a spot in the nickel when going against receiving tight ends.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Why? In college he intercepted or deflected pass eight times last year (only two draft linebackers had more). Can he follow Graham down the seam? No, but no linebacker can, not even Kendricks. Dawson has the instincts and skill to cover players underneath. Just being fast isn't enough in the NFL, some players have instincts/reactions that let them play faster than other guys who time faster.

I'm not touting Dawson as the number one, just saying that there are three or four guys that are all about the same tier. I'm also not sure the team needs a three down linebacker with Matthews and Peppers already at linebacker. Not sure any rookie linebacker would beat out Richardson for a spot in the nickel when going against receiving tight ends.

See above on my take about Dawson's ability to cover TEs and RBs at the pro level. In addition I don't care about his INT total of last season, their defense wasn't able to control the best TE they faced all season who projects to be an undrafted FB at the pro level.

Matthews and Peppers rush the QB on obvious passing downs meaning the Packers either use two ILB (in nickel) or one (in dime), making it essential two get a three down inside backer.

Richardson only gets playing time on defense to support against the run, he's awful in coverage.

 

[Vrill]

Watch Dawson's tape, he lines up and plays out in space a lot too and he looks comfortable in space. That isn't exactly something you do with a "stone footed slow LB" - He most certainly does play faster than his 40 time shows. Why do you think so many were surprised by his 40 time? Everyone and their dog expected him to run in that 4.5 range...why? Because on tape, he plays and looks like a 4.5 guy.

He lined up man to man on the outside or slot against RB's in College at times. No coach will put a game slow LB out into situations or space like that...........

There is a reason that scouts and so called "Draft Guru's" love this guy and have him ranked ahead of LB's like Kendricks.

Hes probably the best "Pure Football Player" out of this LB draft class. But lets be honest, this entire LB class isn't exactly all that great to begin with, however, Dawson is ranked the highest of the entire lot.

And look at Chris Borland. He does NOT look like a 4.7-4.8 LB. He looks and plays A LOT faster then that.....yet his 40 time says otherwise.

People get too enamored with 40 times. That is what got Al Davis into trouble when it came time to draft players later on in his career.

Football Speed > 40 Speed

 

[jetfixer]

The thing with Dawson is though.......he wasn't in shape when it really did matter, the combine. It's a concern, that is the big job interview and he wasn't prepaired. I've been a "Dawson Guy" for awhile, but that is a concern for sure. I'll be happy with a top CB, top DL, Or top ILB, but we need a good 2nd round to go with him. We hit it good last year, anything close will be great.

 

[Vrill]

Yeah, if there is any concern, that's it. Him showing up at the combine like that.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Watch Dawson's tape, he lines up and plays out in space a lot too and he looks comfortable in space. That isn't exactly something you do with a "stone footed slow LB" - He most certainly does play faster than his 40 time shows. Why do you think so many were surprised by his 40 time? Everyone and their dog expected him to run in that 4.5 range...why? Because on tape, he plays and looks like a 4.5 guy.

He lined up man to man on the outside or slot against RB's in College at times. No coach will put a game slow LB out into situations or space like that...........

There is a reason that scouts and so called "Draft Guru's" love this guy and have him ranked ahead of LB's like Kendricks.

Hes probably the best "Pure Football Player" out of this LB draft class. But lets be honest, this entire LB class isn't exactly all that great to begin with, however, Dawson is ranked the highest of the entire lot.

And look at Chris Borland. He does NOT look like a 4.7-4.8 LB. He looks and plays A LOT faster then that.....yet his 40 time says otherwise.

People get too enamored with 40 times. That is what got Al Davis into trouble when it came time to draft players later on in his career.

Football Speed > 40 Speed

Take a look at the video linked underneath (sorry, there's no way to embed one from a mobile device) and take a look at the TD he allows to Jimmay Mundine (the aforementioned best TE he faced all season and projects as an undrafted FB at the pro level).

Dawson (#47) looks TERRIBLE on that play, which starts at the :11 second mark of the video.

http://www.sportingnews.com/video/57034

 

[jetfixer]

I can find a play or two when anybody looks bad. I watched the Ole Miss/TCU game and he was great in it.
I wish I knew who did fit with Sam B. the best. The question is who is worthy of a first round pick, I actually think most of these ILB's talent level starts at about the mid 30's picks. If they are all there at 30, and a top CB or DL isn't left on the board, Ted might move back a bit.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I can find a play or two when anybody looks bad. I watched the Ole Miss/TCU game and he was great in it.
I wish I knew who did fit with Sam B. the best. The question is who is worthy of a first round pick, I actually think most of these ILB's talent level starts at about the mid 30's picks. If they are all there at 30, and a top CB or DL isn't left on the board, Ted might move back a bit.

Here's the Ole Miss/TCU cut up for Dawson.

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There are not a lot of plays where he dropped in coverage. On a couple he's off the screen with the QB being sacked or harassed, so it's hard to tell what he's doing on those.

But I'd point out the plays at 0:24 and 3:40 in that cut up. His zone awareness on those plays is pretty bad. His thing is anticipating what's in front of him, not what's about to happen going by him.

Or consider the 4 plays I highlighted in the following post:

https://www.packerforum.com/threads/at-pick-30-corner-a-must.59407/page-4#post-606079

Do you think he'll get away with those flat-footed infractions consistently in the NFL? I sure don't. He might have had 4 interceptions last season, but you can strike at least one of them on the flagrant hands to the face in this tape.

There's room for debate about his value as sideline-to-sideline box player and as a blitzer. But the more I see of him the less I like about him in coverage.

 

[Vrill]

Ever think that is just part of TCU's defense and zone schemes? Alabama runs that same defense. Everyone has a certain area that they cover/patrol so to speak. Its a read and react style of defense. The entire defense watches what the QB does.

Besides, I can pick out lots of bad plays that every player in this draft has that makes them look "bad". Its easy to nitpick.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Ever think that is just part of TCU's defense and zone schemes? Alabama runs that same defense. Everyone has a certain area that they cover/patrol so to speak. Its a read and react style of defense. The entire defense watches what the QB does.

Besides, I can pick out lots of bad plays that every player in this draft has that makes them look "bad". Its easy to nitpick.

He has coverage assignments in that scheme and he looks poor executing them. I do agree with you that watches the QB and guesses wrong frequently...against craftier NFL QBs he'll be lost in space doing that. Or how about when he's man-up coverage, reads run, and has to maul receivers as they go by him?

Then there's the pre-Combine assumption that we were looking at a 6'2", 4.5 player which he clearly is not. And then there's the issues surrounding not taking his job interview seriously.

This is not a first round talent. He could be a heck of a 2-down ILB.

 

[Vrill]

This is not a first round talent. He could be a heck of a 2-down ILB.

While I respect your opinion, its not shared by a lot of the so called "experts" - Hes the best LB on a lot of draft guru's boards for a reason. Sometimes, people see things differently. Nothing wrong with that.

I think he'll be taken in round 1. If not, round 2 for sure.

I've watched every TCU game hes ever played in. So while, yes, maybe I'm a bit biased because im a Frogs fan, but there are plenty of others that are impressed with his play on the field too. His overall body of work is really impressive.

Mike Mayock and Todd McShay both think hes a 3 down ILB.