I am shocked!

[TJV]

Please stop acting as if the Packers have lacked talent at inside linebacker for only a year. It has been nearly four years since Bishop went down and the position has been in dire need of an upgrade. Thompson deserves being blamed for not being able to provide any improvement there over that period.

The position is in need of an upgrade but it’s not as if Thompson has ignored it. Brad Jones stepped in after Bishop and Smith went down in 2012. As I previously posted, extending Brad Jones was obviously a mistake before the 2013 season but IMO it was reasonable for Thompson to believe (with input from the coaching staff) that Jones would improve at ILB and he and Hawk would be at least good enough at ILB. (But that didn't justify overpaying Jones.) He drafted Palmer and Barrington toward the end of the 2013 draft. It was obvious in 2013 the ILBs needed to be replaced. In 2014 he drafted Bradford in the fourth round and inexplicably the coaching staff wasted a year with him at OLB instead of ILB. Halfway through the 2014 season the switch of Matthews inside marked a significant improvement in the Packers D. My point isn’t that you’re wrong; my point is IMO you are exaggerated how long Thompson “ignored” ILB.

A question for the board: No matter which ILB is acquired either via FA or the draft, do you expect the starting ILBs to be better than Barrington (however briefly) and Matthews at the beginning of the 2015 season? Of course the idea is to maximize Matthews’ talent, but even with the benefit of him at OLB permanently, what do you expect from the ILBs?

Von Miller was drafted second overall in the 2011 draft: Quick, without looking it up, when was the last time the Packers picked first or second in the draft?

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

Not sure why you have this need to act so childish..

Replace Von Miller with Nate Palmer..The result the same?

Again my ONLY point is w/o VM, Broncos arent in the SB--Nothing to do with the rest of the defense or the FA they signed or who else they drafted..

I believe VM was so GREAT in the playoffs that is why they won the SB.

Childish?

 

[longtimefan]

Childish?

Yes---

"This game is fun"

"Profound thoughts"

To be clear---That's not me acting as a mod, so it isnt a threat..

Im trying to approach this as a poster who doesnt want his opinion met with condescension

Thanks

 

[Deleted member 6794]

why? because everyone says WE should be doing it more like the Broncos did. That's been the common theme since about week 7-8 this year (fill in Seahawks, patriots, etc) until a winner was finally declared.

The posters, including me, advocating for Thompson to use free agency to selectively address positions of need aren't suggesting the Packers should be like the Broncos but use all methods available to improve the team, like all other 31 teams do.

The position is in need of an upgrade but it’s not as if Thompson has ignored it. Brad Jones stepped in after Bishop and Smith went down in 2012. As I previously posted, extending Brad Jones was obviously a mistake before the 2013 season but IMO it was reasonable for Thompson to believe (with input from the coaching staff) that Jones would improve at ILB and he and Hawk would be at least good enough at ILB. (But that didn't justify overpaying Jones.) He drafted Palmer and Barrington toward the end of the 2013 draft. It was obvious in 2013 the ILBs needed to be replaced. In 2014 he drafted Bradford in the fourth round and inexplicably the coaching staff wasted a year with him at OLB instead of ILB. Halfway through the 2014 season the switch of Matthews inside marked a significant improvement in the Packers D. My point isn’t that you’re wrong; my point is IMO you are exaggerated how long Thompson “ignored” ILB.

Take a look back at the post you quoted, TJV. I didn't criticize Thompson for ignoring the position but for not providing any improvement at ILB over the last four years.

A question for the board: No matter which ILB is acquired either via FA or the draft, do you expect the starting ILBs to be better than Barrington (however briefly) and Matthews at the beginning of the 2015 season? Of course the idea is to maximize Matthews’ talent, but even with the benefit of him at OLB permanently, what do you expect from the ILBs?

If Thompson signs a free agent I expect him to start immediately and upgrade the position from week 1 on. A draft pick most likely will need some time to be an improvement over Barrington and Matthews.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

Yes---

"This game is fun"

"Profound thoughts"

To be clear---That's not me acting as a mod, so it isnt a threat..

Im trying to approach this as a poster who doesnt want his opinion met with condescension

Thanks

You really can't blame me for being condescending. Your opinion was "without the best player on the field, the team wouldn't have won".

 

[Mondio]

I think his opinion is more along the lines of " the best player on the field and the reason for victory was a draft pick", #2 in fact, when everyone is trying to tell you it's the FA's that won it for them. But what do I know.

It's funny just how narrow the lines of victory are. Who knows what happens if they correctly call the first big play Carolina had early in the game a catch, and Von doesn't get his first strip sack and resultant defensive score? We'd be talking about a team built mostly thru drafting high in each round with a coach they wanted to fire 2-3 years ago. It's funny how the narratives can change so easily.

 

[longtimefan]

You really can't blame me for being condescending. Your opinion was "without the best player on the field, the team wouldn't have won".

I can blame you, as you typed it out..Some posters appear to say, Denver signs fa, that is why they won SB---Miller was drafted. Replace with Palmer, they dont win.

So fa didnt help them..That is really my only point...

Yes I know there is more to it in general, some players affect others. Maybe another player steps up in place of Miller. Maybe Talib doesnt get flagged and intercepts, maybe defensive coaches scheme differently. But I dont think they sniff the AFCCG with out him.

There are posters that do not know as much as others, but want to learn, and be part of good conversations. However, they do not post in fear their thoughts and opinions will be attacked, mocked, or ridiculed. Just like what you did to me.

So in the future, if you feel a post isn't vital or a good contribution to the discussion, just dont reply to it. Some issues we have with posters and the stupid fighting can be traced to ridiculing and condensing remarks.

Now as a mod I do wish you take that advice to heart. B4 you put words into my typing, I said WISH...Not a threat, not a demand, just advice.

 

[longtimefan]

I think his opinion is more along the lines of " the best player on the field and the reason for victory was a draft pick", #2 in fact, when everyone is trying to tell you it's the FA's that won it for them. But what do I know.

.

Bingo....

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

I can blame you, as you typed it out..Some posters appear to say, Denver signs fa, that is why they won SB---Miller was drafted. Replace with Palmer, they dont win.

So fa didnt help them..That is really my only point...

Yes I know there is more to it in general, some players affect others. Maybe another player steps up in place of Miller. Maybe Talib doesnt get flagged and intercepts, maybe defensive coaches scheme differently. But I dont think they sniff the AFCCG with out him.

There are posters that do not know as much as others, but want to learn, and be part of good conversations. However, they do not post in fear their thoughts and opinions will be attacked, mocked, or ridiculed. Just like what you did to me.

So in the future, if you feel a post isn't vital or a good contribution to the discussion, just dont reply to it. Some issues we have with posters and the stupid fighting can be traced to ridiculing and condensing remarks.

Now as a mod I do wish you take that advice to heart. B4 you put words into my typing, I said WISH...Not a threat, not a demand, just advice.

 

[RRyder]

That's the idea of my entire post. Draft well and supplement with free agency. Draft Von Miller and sign DeMarcus Ware in free agency. Draft Demarious Thomas and sign Emmanuel Sanders in free agency.

I think I understand what your getting at but when in your previous post you say your not advocating for the Packers to "break the bank" in FA it's probably not a good Idea to list examples of high priced guys that would be doing the opposite of "not breaking the bank"

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

I think I understand what your getting at but when in your previous post you say your not advocating for the Packers to "break the bank" in FA it's probably not a good Idea to list examples of high priced guys that would be doing the opposite of "not breaking the bank"

PLEASE show me the post where I advocate the Packers "break the bank". I can't find it. I even put a "disclaimer" on Post #176 of this thread that I wasn't advocating a break the bank strategy.

I look forward to reading the post!

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

I think I understand what your getting at but when in your previous post you say your not advocating for the Packers to "break the bank" in FA it's probably not a good Idea to list examples of high priced guys that would be doing the opposite of "not breaking the bank"

Also, what do you consider "break the bank"? Is there a dollar threshold?

The Broncos have not had to cut anybody of importance or make any tough decisions in the past three years. Did Ware break the bank even though it didn't stop the Broncos from signing or resigning anybody? Did Ware or Talib break the bank even though it didn't stop the Broncos from signing or resigning anybody? The Broncos have enough cap room to resign Derek Wolfe, tag Von Miller and resign Osweiller.

 

[RRyder]

Also, what do you consider "break the bank"? Is there a dollar threshold?

The Broncos have not had to cut anybody of importance or make any tough decisions in the past three years. Did Ware break the bank even though it didn't stop the Broncos from signing or resigning anybody? Did Ware or Talib break the bank even though it didn't stop the Broncos from signing or resigning anybody? The Broncos have enough cap room to resign Derek Wolfe, tag Von Miller and resign Osweiller.

Well the term is used in reference to big money guys. All if which you listed. It's the mid tier guys that leave and the Broncos very well could be losing one or both ILBs this season also. And they did also let their TE go last year only to trade away a pick mid season in the hopes to replace him and will probably end up burning yet another pick on TE in the near future also trying to do it once again.

The point is when you start saying your not advocating to break the bank in FA it tends to be another way of saying that your not advocating for going after high price/profile guys in FA and instead we should be looking at the 2nd and 3rd tier guys to sign and fill a few holes.

If that wasn't your point than please explain further otherwise listing names like Ware and Talib work contrary to that opinion

 

[RRyder]

PLEASE show me the post where I advocate the Packers "break the bank". I can't find it. I even put a "disclaimer" on Post #176 of this thread that I wasn't advocating a break the bank strategy.

I look forward to reading the post!

I didnt say you were advocating it. In fact you said the opposite. But than you listed big money/high profile guys which is why I pointed out the contradiction

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It's the mid tier guys that leave and the Broncos very well could be losing one or both ILBs this season also.

With Brandon Marshall being a restricted free agent this offseason I highly doubt the Broncos won´t be able to keep him.

 

[RRyder]

With Brandon Marshall being a restricted free agent this offseason I highly doubt the Broncos won´t be able to keep him.

My bad. I thought he was a UFA for some reason

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

Well the term is used in reference to big money guys. All if which you listed. It's the mid tier guys that leave and the Broncos very well could be losing one or both ILBs this season also. And they did also let their TE go last year only to trade away a pick mid season in the hopes to replace him and will probably end up burning yet another pick on TE in the near future also trying to do it once again.

The point is when you start saying your not advocating to break the bank in FA it tends to be another way of saying that your not advocating for going after high price/profile guys in FA and instead we should be looking at the 2nd and 3rd tier guys to sign and fill a few holes.

If that wasn't your point than please explain further otherwise listing names like Ware and Talib work contrary to that opinion

I don't think we could have this conversation until we agree on what "break the bank" free agents are. I think it's more than just the person's name and what "tier" you consider them to be in. I think "break the bank" needs to apply to the overall team and the salary cap of the team. In my opinion, Ware and Talib didn't "break the bank" because the Broncos didn't have to cut players or jeopardize their salary cap.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

I didnt say you were advocating it. In fact you said the opposite. But than you listed big money/high profile guys which is why I pointed out the contradiction

I don't believe there was a contradiction.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

I didnt say you were advocating it. In fact you said the opposite. But than you listed big money/high profile guys which is why I pointed out the contradiction

Let's use Julius Thomas as an example. Thomas was a tier-1 free agent last year and signed a 5-year, $46M deal ($24M guaranteed) deal with the Jaguars. By your definition, he is a "break the bank" free-agent. I don't see him as a break the bank free-agent for the Jaguars because the Jaguars currently have $79M of cap space. He was a tier-1 free agent signed by a team with ample money to sign him.

http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

 

[RRyder]

I don't think we could have this conversation until we agree on what "break the bank" free agents are. I think it's more than just the person's name and what "tier" you consider them to be in. I think "break the bank" needs to apply to the overall team and the salary cap of the team. In my opinion, Ware and Talib didn't "break the bank" because the Broncos didn't have to cut players or jeopardize their salary cap.

Alright we are simply arguing semantics then. But I would add that because they did sign those guys they weren't able to lock up their young TE and did conversely trade a pick trying to fill the hole he left and will still probably have to spend amother pick in the hopes of replacing him. There might be others, there may not be, but honestly I don't follow them to a huge extent.

However I'll ask why use the phrase in the context you did in the first place if you are advocating for bringing in high profile/price guys to fill holes? Because the types of guys you listed do fit that criteria.

I like others aren't opposed to bringing in a few 2nd and 3rd tier guys to fill those spots but it seems your arguing that since the Packers have the cap room to burn that it wouldn't be a bad idea for them to go after a tier one guy as long as it's not an astronomical deal.

 

[NelsonsLongCatch]

Alright we are simply arguing semantics then. But I would add that because they did sign those guys they weren't able to lock up their young TE and did conversely trade a pick trying to fill the hole he left and will still probably have to spend amother pick in the hopes of replacing him. There might be others, there may not be, but honestly I don't follow them to a huge extent.

However I'll ask why use the phrase in the context you did in the first place if you are advocating for bringing in high profile/price guys to fill holes? Because the types of guys you listed do fit that criteria.

I like others aren't opposed to bringing in a few 2nd and 3rd tier guys to fill those spots but it seems your arguing that since the Packers have the cap room to burn that it wouldn't be a bad idea for them to go after a tier one guy as long as it's not an astronomical deal.

To address the first paragraph, I don't think with all the cap room in the world the Broncos were going to match the deal Thomas got from Jacksonville. Thomas is currently making more money than Ron Gronkowski. Thomas is the 3rd highest paid in the NFL (and was the 2nd highest paid before Kelce's contract extension). Sometimes it's just not economically feasible to resign a guy regardless of skill. You can't outbid bad teams with money to burn (see Suh contract and Davon House contract). http://overthecap.com/position/tight-end/

To put it simply, I believe the Packers should supplement their excellent history of drafting with appropriate free agents at the right position for the right price. If Matt Forte wants to come to Green Bay for 2 years/$8M to win a ring, go for it!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't think we could have this conversation until we agree on what "break the bank" free agents are. I think it's more than just the person's name and what "tier" you consider them to be in. I think "break the bank" needs to apply to the overall team and the salary cap of the team. In my opinion, Ware and Talib didn't "break the bank" because the Broncos didn't have to cut players or jeopardize their salary cap.

It seems a lot of posters only use that phrase for unrestricted free agents from other teams. The truth is though that it doesn´t matter if a team brings in an unrestricted free agent or re-signs their own, the GM has to be smart about using the cap space available.