Game 17 -- here kitty kitty. Season ender vs hapless Lions [pregame and post game thread]

Pokerbrat2000

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I don't see the entire preseason disappearing to be honest. There would be no way to identify talent, nor prepare for the season. It could end up shorter, and maybe cut to two games, but not totally disappear. That's just my opinion. Who knows? It could totally disappear.
Fully agree. They can't adequately get the roster cut down to 53 without those preseason games. Besides your own team, you are getting access to 31 other teams players on film. I would prefer to keep the 3 games, 2 at minimum.
 

Krabs

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I don't see the entire preseason disappearing to be honest. There would be no way to identify talent, nor prepare for the season. It could end up shorter, and maybe cut to two games, but not totally disappear. That's just my opinion. Who knows? It could totally disappear.
It would just go to true exhibition games or coordinated practices between teams. Like high school ball, they just have a scrimmage with different scenarios that come up in games. They can evaluate talent that way. Truth be told, most teams are really only vying for a few spots at the end of the roster. Most of the first and second team are in place. Also, the roster changes so much during the season anyway. Getting rid of preseason I think is going to happen.
 

Voyageur

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I don't understand how the toughest sport to play, that's most physically demanding, would be the only one that thinks that preseason training and competitive involvement is not necessary to prepare for a season. Kind of curious how that would ever work.
 

Krabs

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I don't understand how the toughest sport to play, that's most physically demanding, would be the only one that thinks that preseason training and competitive involvement is not necessary to prepare for a season. Kind of curious how that would ever work.
I think you are misunderstanding. Only preseason games would go away. There will always be competitive involvement between teams. It will just be a situational scrimmage.
 

PackerRyche

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You want to see more of the Saints game performance from everyone?
Correlation does not equal causation, but I get your point. I could be talked into 2 pre season games, but I also think much of the utility of the pre season could be achieved with more joint team practices/scrimmages. These have allowed coaches to better analyze specific performance objectives and mitigate risk. I think they would be highly entertaining to watch as well. Put a microphone on everyone with a 10 second potty mouth delay. Not sure the league would agree.
 

Mondio

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The first month of the season IS the preseason now. The level of play out of the gates is haphazard at best with good teams still figuring stuff out and ****** teams pulling out some wins looking like world beaters only to fall flat on their face by the time November starts.
 

AGreen2AJones

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For what its worth Jordy did it in a 16 game season, this is a 17 game season. Doesn't feel right that people are just disregarding this. (btw the title of the thread is wrong, next week is week 18, not 17).

& yeah i know, davantae sat out a game for covid this year, but still, if this was a 16 game season, the book would be closed and the numbers would stand.
Amd Jordy played in a 16 game season vice 14 game season. This can't be ignored. His records should be null and void
 

Pokerbrat2000

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The first month of the season IS the preseason now. The level of play out of the gates is haphazard at best with good teams still figuring stuff out and ****** teams pulling out some wins looking like world beaters only to fall flat on their face by the time November starts.
I get that approach in an 82 game Basketball season or a 162 game MLB schedule, but if the NFL adopted that, I think fans paying high prices for seats would get annoyed. Yes, I know, the Packers have a waiting list for season tickets, but there is only so much you want to tempt fate with. At least preseason games are labeled as such and the ticket prices reflect the lower level of play.

I'm hesitant to pay big $$ to go to a Bucks game anymore. I have been to 3 in the last few years and 2 of those featured Giannis and a couple of other starters "resting" on the bench all night, I felt screwed.

While I expect the play of Football teams to get better as the season goes on, I hope we never see the first month of the regular season being used like a preseason. Hell, even the NBA and MLB have quite a few preseason games to work many of the kinks out.
 

swhitset

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This would be true if his record was established after the 14th game.
You missed his point and got it backwards. He’s pointing out that Jordy got 16 games to establish his record when the NFL used to play only 14 (and even 10 and 12 games). Basically he’s saying Jordy’s record shouldn’t count either lol.

All that being said… Pokerbrat is right… the NFL now plays 17 game seasons… We need to just accept it and move on. And Frankly a lot of the guys Jordy was competing against also got 16 game seasons When I look at the list of yardage leaders for the Packers…. all but Don Hutson played 16 game seasons.
 

Voyageur

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You missed his point and got it backwards. He’s pointing out that Jordy got 16 games to establish his record when the NFL used to play only 14 (and even 10 and 12 games). Basically he’s saying Jordy’s record shouldn’t count either lol.

All that being said… Pokerbrat is right… the NFL now plays 17 game seasons… We need to just accept it and move on. And Frankly a lot of the guys Jordy was competing against also got 16 game seasons When I look at the list of yardage leaders for the Packers…. all but Don Hutson played 16 game seasons.
If you're talking about career stats, the number of games per season doesn't really matter. Maybe it should, but it don't. If you're talking about the record in a single season, the number of games played in a season should be considered. Anyhow, that's my opinion. If you don't agree, it don't matter. We all have different opinions.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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If you're talking about the record in a single season, the number of games played in a season should be considered.
Jay Cutler just texted, he would like it if they count all 17 games + preseason and post season, when determining total interceptions thrown in a season, starting this year. :coffee:
 

swhitset

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If you're talking about career stats, the number of games per season doesn't really matter. Maybe it should, but it don't. If you're talking about the record in a single season, the number of games played in a season should be considered. Anyhow, that's my opinion. If you don't agree, it don't matter. We all have different opinions.
lol… scroll up a ways …. you will see I do agree with you about single season records …. I’m just resigned to the fact that our opinion won’t matter. I also think it matters with career stats as well however. If player A plays for 5 years at 16 games per…. and player B plays for 5 years at 12 games per…. well that’s 20 more games for player A to rack up stats. I believe father time is a bigger factor in limiting a players career than reps….
 

Voyageur

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lol… scroll up a ways …. you will see I do agree with you about single season records …. I’m just resigned to the fact that our opinion won’t matter. I also think it matters with career stats as well however. If player A plays for 5 years at 16 games per…. and player B plays for 5 years at 12 games per…. well that’s 20 more games for player A to rack up stats. I believe father time is a bigger factor in limiting a players career than reps….
Sorry about that! My bad! You're right.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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look at todays players compared to years ago. Some wide receivers are bigger than guards from the 1960's I read that somewhere so might be wrong lol
Was laughing @ "I read that somewhere so might be wrong"

Well I did a search for "All Decade Team of the 60's"

The site listed 3 guards and I think what you read is sort of correct. The heights are the same as some WR's but the Guards seem heavier, at least these 3. I would imagine todays players are a lot more muscular than those of the 60's as well.

Jerry Kramer: 6'3' 245#

Howard Mudd: 6' 2" 254#

Gene Hickerson: 6' 3" 248#


DK Metcalf is what I would call a "big WR" he is 6'3, mostly muscle but only weighs 228#
 

Voyageur

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Was laughing @ "I read that somewhere so might be wrong"

Well I did a search for "All Decade Team of the 60's"

The site listed 3 guards and I think what you read is sort of correct. The heights are the same as some WR's but the Guards seem heavier, at least these 3. I would imagine todays players are a lot more muscular than those of the 60's as well.

Jerry Kramer: 6'3' 245#

Howard Mudd: 6' 2" 254#

Gene Hickerson: 6' 3" 248#


DK Metcalf is what I would call a "big WR" he is 6'3, mostly muscle but only weighs 228#

A lot of the height and weight stats are fictitious from the 60s. I stood next to guys supposedly 6-1 and 230#, and I was just as big at 5-11, 215#.
 

Voyageur

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Explains those 4.2 40's they were running too. :coffee:
I don't know about the speeds, just some of them when it came to height and weight. Some were still pretty big though. Not many were chiseled. Most had off season jobs, and had to improvise to stay in shape.
 

Curly Calhoun

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Noon away game. I'm sure most of the discussion will be around which starters to sit. Does Arod have time for his surgery if he doesn't play? Then a week off to go home and get Covid. Seems to be par for bye weeks late this season.

My guess is that starters will be limited if they play at all...The offence might look a lot like it did in the last eight minutes of the Viking game (Jordan Love, Patrick Taylor, Juwann Winfree, etc.)

And they could still win.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I don't know about the speeds, just some of them when it came to height and weight. Some were still pretty big though. Not many were chiseled. Most had off season jobs, and had to improvise to stay in shape.
No doubt that todays NFL players are bigger, stronger and faster. Which along with the general laws of physics, explains all the injuries.
 

sschind

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I've always believed the record books should represent facts. As an example, running backs. A guy who gained 1,000 yards back in the era of 12 games a year has done a lot better than the guy who does it in 16 games, or 17 games. As an example, to get 1,000 in the old days, you needed to average over 83 yards a game. With today's 17 game season, only 59. It applies with everything, across the board.

I remember when a QB would get 2,800 yards passing and it was great! Now, they get 4,000, and it's "okay," not great. The problem is, based on length of season, those are nearly identical stats!

In baseball, I know of two home run records, nothing more. Babe Ruth, 60 in 154 games, and 61 by Roger Maris, but he didn't hit his 59th until the 155th game of the season. Therefore, Ruth's record remains intact. As for those hit during the juiced ball, bat, and player era they don't mean squat. Those guys were freaks through drugs.
So if a QB throws for 8 TDs in the first game and doesn't throw another all year he holds the single season record becasue it maybe took another QB 2 or three games to pass him.

As far as the record books representing facts, the fact is the record is for most yards gained in one season. Not the most yards gained in one season of X number of games. A season is however many games the league says it is. I do get your point and I might say yeah but Adams got it in a 17 game season while Nelson did it in a 16 game season but Adams will still be the record holder of record and will be in the record books. I have no problem with with the record books also putting in the number of games in a season.

Don Hutson had 1211 yards in 11 games in 1942. Does that mean the Packers record is 1211 since I don't think any WR has passed that number by week 11 since.

I get that approach in an 82 game Basketball season or a 162 game MLB schedule, but if the NFL adopted that, I think fans paying high prices for seats would get annoyed. Yes, I know, the Packers have a waiting list for season tickets, but there is only so much you want to tempt fate with. At least preseason games are labeled as such and the ticket prices reflect the lower level of play.

I'm hesitant to pay big $$ to go to a Bucks game anymore. I have been to 3 in the last few years and 2 of those featured Giannis and a couple of other starters "resting" on the bench all night, I felt screwed.

While I expect the play of Football teams to get better as the season goes on, I hope we never see the first month of the regular season being used like a preseason. Hell, even the NBA and MLB have quite a few preseason games to work many of the kinks out.
I don't think he is suggesting that the first 4 weeks are played with backups with the idea of evaluating talent. More like the starting talent is still trying to find its groove and figure everything out so the games seem more like preseason games.

I honestly don't see eliminating preseason games but I can definitely see them dropping it to 2 if they want to add an 18th game to the regular season. I agree with Krabs on one point though I don't think more than a handful of players play themselves onto a team in the preseason games. The vast majority of your 53 man roster have cemented their spots in training camp. I do think it can help practice squad players immensely though.
 

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