Fire Matt LaFleur

[Magooch]

I will say, it's kind of hard for me to judge at this point...

I know leadership hated the idea of a "lame duck" coach but IMO the right course of action last season still would've been to either let Matt (and Gute for that matter) come into this season as a contract year, or at max offer them a one-year extension to basically give the new president a clean slate to assess with.

And in general my ultimate opinion hasn't changed: I think Matt is probably overall a good but not great coach, or one who could be a great/elite OC. But I think we have already seen this team's ceiling under LaFleur and at the end of the day I don't think he will be the guy to get us "over the hump" to winning our next Super Bowl. And if you are the type of fan who is kind of a consequentialist, where that is the only acceptable outcome, then you should probably still be of the mind that he should be fired. I copy it from Jeremy Foley when he was at Florida who is famous for saying (or adapting at least lol) "What should be done eventually must be done immediately" - if you think in a few years you're going to need a new coach because Matt won't have got it done, you might as well rip off the bandaid and make the move.

But now by giving out a long term extension in some ways it "resets the clock" with regards to a firing or not IMO. I know there is still almost certainly offset language in his contract, so it's not like firing is an impossibility or it bankrupts us, but it does complicate things. And as I've said before, one thing Matt really has working in his favor is that he seems to be a super QB friendly coach... and when your coach can seemingly maximize your most valuable asset, teams are always going to be awfully shy to upset the apple cart there... My hunch is also that Matt is still our de facto OC so we will probably have a good handful of roles needing filled once he leaves.
I guess what I'm meaning is that by offering a long-term extension, things would have to go REALLY south to get fired in year one of that extension. And so far that hasn't been the case. So in general I'm still of the mind that we should ultimately be looking to make a change, but at the same time Matt has probably done enough that at least our hand isn't forced right now

 

[tynimiller]

Just a thought

Matt LaFleur: Should he stay or should he go. This way it's neutral

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[DoURant]

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That where I got it from, lol.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Just a thought

Matt LaFleur: Should he stay or should he go. This way it's neutral

Agree. Thanks D. You can always count on The Clash.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I will say, it's kind of hard for me to judge at this point...

I know leadership hated the idea of a "lame duck" coach but IMO the right course of action last season still would've been to either let Matt (and Gute for that matter) come into this season as a contract year, or at max offer them a one-year extension to basically give the new president a clean slate to assess with.

And in general my ultimate opinion hasn't changed: I think Matt is probably overall a good but not great coach, or one who could be a great/elite OC. But I think we have already seen this team's ceiling under LaFleur and at the end of the day I don't think he will be the guy to get us "over the hump" to winning our next Super Bowl. And if you are the type of fan who is kind of a consequentialist, where that is the only acceptable outcome, then you should probably still be of the mind that he should be fired. I copy it from Jeremy Foley when he was at Florida who is famous for saying (or adapting at least lol) "What should be done eventually must be done immediately" - if you think in a few years you're going to need a new coach because Matt won't have got it done, you might as well rip off the bandaid and make the move.

But now by giving out a long term extension in some ways it "resets the clock" with regards to a firing or not IMO. I know there is still almost certainly offset language in his contract, so it's not like firing is an impossibility or it bankrupts us, but it does complicate things. And as I've said before, one thing Matt really has working in his favor is that he seems to be a super QB friendly coach... and when your coach can seemingly maximize your most valuable asset, teams are always going to be awfully shy to upset the apple cart there... My hunch is also that Matt is still our de facto OC so we will probably have a good handful of roles needing filled once he leaves.
I guess what I'm meaning is that by offering a long-term extension, things would have to go REALLY south to get fired in year one of that extension. And so far that hasn't been the case. So in general I'm still of the mind that we should ultimately be looking to make a change, but at the same time Matt has probably done enough that at least our hand isn't forced right now

Were the terms of MLF's and Gluten's extensions ever released? I don't think so. A guess would be at least 3 years, more like 5.

I do agree that we've seen his ceiling.or close to it. That's not really a bad thing. He still has a lot of talent to work with. Losing Cooper and ZBB obviously hurt, and Parsons is still on the sidelines. It will be interesting to see what he does with what he has to work with. And with probably every team experiencing serious injuries to starters, he'll ultimately be judged against that.

The last two games have been encouraging. It's hard to give him a free pass for the first four weeks, but it may just have taken that long to adjust to a way-less talented OL than he thought he was getting, and losing Jacobs was out of everyone's control - well, except Jacobs.

 

[rmontro]

I will say, it's kind of hard for me to judge at this point...

Agree. The team's hasn't done badly so far, but there are some glaring concerns - mainly the problems with the offensive line. There were several times against Dallas where they just collapsed protecting Love - and of course the running game wasn't effective. But we're coming into what is considered the more difficult part of the schedule, and a big issue with MLF has been how the team finishes. I want to see how the team looks at the end of the season before I jump back on his bandwagon.

We should be getting some key players back soon that could give us a lift. Unfortunately, the team seems to have some key weaknesses that limits how far we can go. Just making the playoffs might seem to be a victory for this team, but that still just leaves us spinning our wheels. Fortunately, there's still time to improve.

 

[milani]

Agree. The team's hasn't done badly so far, but there are some glaring concerns - mainly the problems with the offensive line. There were several times against Dallas where they just collapsed protecting Love - and of course the running game wasn't effective. But we're coming into what is considered the more difficult part of the schedule, and a big issue with MLF has been how the team finishes. I want to see how the team looks at the end of the season before I jump back on his bandwagon.

We should be getting some key players back soon that could give us a lift. Unfortunately, the team seems to have some key weaknesses that limits how far we can go. Just making the playoffs might seem to be a victory for this team, but that still just leaves us spinning our wheels. Fortunately, there's still time to improve.

There were several times against Dallas we ran into a brick wall. And that was facing one of the worst run defenses in the league. The Giants pounded them. So did the Ravens. When we got the ball you knew the scenario. Straight ahead smash for 2 yards. 2nd and 8. Just enough time to give our D a rest and hope Love can connect for a first down.

 

[rmontro]

There were several times against Dallas we ran into a brick wall. And that was facing one of the worst run defenses in the league.

They have Kenny Clark though!

 

[milani]

They have Kenny Clark though!

I guess that is the call. Run right at Kenny since he is not Bob Lily.

 

[Firethorn1001]

There were several times against Dallas we ran into a brick wall. And that was facing one of the worst run defenses in the league. The Giants pounded them. So did the Ravens. When we got the ball you knew the scenario. Straight ahead smash for 2 yards. 2nd and 8. Just enough time to give our D a rest and hope Love can connect for a first down.

Unfortunately a necessary evil no matter how bad they are at it right now. Right now I think they are roughly a 65/35 split pass v run. That's gotta have Matt having nightmares. Heck, 55/45 probably gives him the creeps.

 

[gopkrs]

Unfortunately a necessary evil no matter how bad they are at it right now. Right now I think they are roughly a 65/35 split pass v run. That's gotta have Matt having nightmares. Heck, 55/45 probably gives him the creeps.

But imho it's what we have needed to do for awhile now

 

[Heyjoe4]

Unfortunately a necessary evil no matter how bad they are at it right now. Right now I think they are roughly a 65/35 split pass v run. That's gotta have Matt having nightmares. Heck, 55/45 probably gives him the creeps.

Given the weakness of the running game, it's amazing at the passing yards Love and the receivers are putting up. The OL veterans brought in by Gluten have had a significant impact. The OL is still a weakness, but most of the leaks have been plugged.

 

[Poppa San]

The OL veterans brought in by Gluten have had a significant impact.

How would we know that? Only Tomlinson has played AFAIK. Yes he's stabilized the left side but Glover is better than what was on the right also.

 

[OldSchool101]

Green Bay is being recognized more and more as a legitimate Big Play threat. Then underneath our opponent has to account for Kraft. IF and it’s a big IF Savion can continue to perform similarly but with a larger workload? It creates a conundrum for DC’s.

Savion reminds me of a taller version of Ty Montgomery. Matter of fact one Draft Scout used Ty as his Comp player. He’s not high performing at either Run or Pass but versatile and good at both. I also like having a 6’3” X 222lb Slot right now. That’s more ideal for opponents who load the Box. Savion could be that deciding factor for us rising to another plateau if he continued on his trajectory. He’s that Bonus addition that many D’s will forget about, but he’s shown formidable in small samples.

In his 1st game back Savion had 6 touches for 41 yards. At nearly 7 yds per. Now granted it was Dallas at home, but still he looked comfortable out there.

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/packers-coach-reveals-bigger-plans-152455022.html

 

[milani]

Green Bay is being recognized more and more as a legitimate Big Play threat. Then underneath our opponent has to account for Kraft. IF and it’s a big IF Savion can continue to perform similarly but with a larger workload? It creates a conundrum for DC’s.

Trying to get these really green players to a high level.

 

[OldSchool101]

Trying to get these really green players to a high level.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a little trickery. Savion also has a pretty good throwing arm. Maybe fake a screen and make it obvious. Then let him launch one to Watson to high point it. Last September the old HS QB launched a reported 72 yard Pass in a throwing competition. See I’d setup Detroit on an earlier play end around with a Savion handoff…. But only as a decoy for a later play opposite side… and gift Detroit an overpursue l… then I’d let him launch a 45+ yard arc pass to see if Watson can get underneath it or draw a flag. That’s a play I’d have scheduled for my first 3rd n 10+ if beyond our GB30. I’d rehearse that enough to get the timing down and make sure no blocks are holding, just enough to give him s couple seconds of space on a rollout.

 

[Heyjoe4]

How would we know that? Only Tomlinson has played AFAIK. Yes he's stabilized the left side but Glover is better than what was on the right also.

Thanks for the catch. Only Tomlinson has played. I don't know much about how Glover has played. If Banks isn't healthy, I think Zeitler and Tomlinson start as Gs this weekend

 

[Poppa San]

Green Bay is being recognized more and more as a legitimate Big Play threat. Then underneath our opponent has to account for Kraft. IF and it’s a big IF Savion can continue to perform similarly but with a larger workload? It creates a conundrum for DC’s.

Savion reminds me of a taller version of Ty Montgomery. Matter of fact one Draft Scout used Ty as his Comp player. He’s not high performing at either Run or Pass but versatile and good at both. I also like having a 6’3” X 222lb Slot right now. That’s more ideal for opponents who load the Box. Savion could be that deciding factor for us rising to another plateau if he continued on his trajectory. He’s that Bonus addition that many D’s will forget about, but he’s shown formidable in small samples.

In his 1st game back Savion had 6 touches for 41 yards. At nearly 7 yds per. Now granted it was Dallas at home, but still he looked comfortable out there.

https://sports.yahoo.com/articles/packers-coach-reveals-bigger-plans-152455022.html

I'm hoping he takes most of the offensive snaps from Bo. Bo ain't bad but Savion is an upgrade.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'm hoping he takes most of the offensive snaps from Bo. Bo ain't bad but Savion is an upgrade.

Agreed. Williams has shown consistent ability to execute plays this year (well, small sample size) better than Melton. And OS makes a good comparison to Ty Montgomery, although Montgomery was more of a RB and Williams is more of a WR. FWIW.

I like Williams. Since he came off IR he has looked good in limited action. And that's important with Reed lost for the season.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I wouldn’t mind seeing a little trickery. Savion also has a pretty good throwing arm. Maybe fake a screen and make it obvious. Then let him launch one to Watson to high point it. Last September the old HS QB launched a reported 72 yard Pass in a throwing competition. See I’d setup Detroit on an earlier play end around with a Savion handoff…. But only as a decoy for a later play opposite side… and gift Detroit an overpursue l… then I’d let him launch a 45+ yard arc pass to see if Watson can get underneath it or draw a flag. That’s a play I’d have scheduled for my first 3rd n 10+ if beyond our GB30. I’d rehearse that enough to get the timing down and make sure no blocks are holding, just enough to give him s couple seconds of space on a rollout.

Good ideas. In general, I don't like to see trick plays (or they wouldn't be trick plays…..), but the setup you suggested could work because most opponents haven't seen a lot of Williams - well neither have the Packers.

Williams looks good to me, even in limited action. I hope he pulls coverage away from Watson and Golden, although it's likely to be the opposite. Then it would be to have Williams run routes out of the slot when CB and S coverage tilts to Watson and Golden.