Fire Capers

[easyk83]

You guys do realize that our vaunted Offense basically spotted them 16 points and flat out botched numerous layup type first downs? IMHO the defense will tighten up and toughen up once we start feeding more and more of Guion's snaps to Boyd/Pennell and once we replace Brad Jones with Jamarri Lattimore, who was said to progress in camp. Last night's game really didn't feel like a butt kicking, it felt more like our team just struggled to make use of easy opportunities to make plays and get things done.

 

[J Mills]

Ted Thompson also needs to take some blame. This roster has no other 3-4 NTs on the roster, so when Raji went down a glaring hole was exposed. Also his lack of interest in upgrading the ILB position is baffling. I actual think Hawk is adequate but Brad Jones is a huge liability and he was abused last night in the run and pass game.

 

[pacmaniac]

I seriously doubt that the Packers brain trust will fire Capers during the coarse of the season, even if things don't improve over the next few games.

They will never fire him. If they haven't fired him by now, they never will. One of MM's biggest faults is being loyal to incompetent people. We are stuck with Dumb Capers until he retires.

 

[D3uc3]

Ted Thompson also needs to take some blame. This roster has no other 3-4 NTs on the roster, so when Raji went down a glaring hole was exposed. Also his lack of interest in upgrading the ILB position is baffling. I actual think Hawk is adequate but Brad Jones is a huge liability and he was abused last night in the run and pass game.

Honestly AJ HAWK I have been a fan of since ohio state but he's getting old and he is becoming a liability in a passing league, Jones has never really showed he deserves to start, Lattimore should have started over him period. Brad Jones hasn't shown anything since he resigned two yrs ago, and our offensive line is just a polished turd!

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

Honestly AJ HAWK I have been a fan of since ohio state but he's getting old and he is becoming a liability in a passing league, Jones has never really showed he deserves to start, Lattimore should have started over him period. Brad Jones hasn't shown anything since he resigned two yrs ago, and our offensive line is just a polished turd!

On field decision making for sure plays a large part in their play. Who's responsible to ensure they're making the right call at a given time? Tackling; ... an issue that's plagued the team at length. The OL isn't horrible. The C is coming along and isn't ****ing up hardcore. That one snap, sure, though it seemed that AR straightened him out quick. And expecting perfection from inexperience is asking to be disappointed. Lang, Bulaga, and Sitton are solid. Bakhtiari is serviceable, but he isn't a longterm piece. Sherrod completely wiffing a block allowing the M. Bennett through to cause the fumble and eventual safety is most disheartening to me personally. (But HEY! At least it wasn't a touchdown. ) I sincerely hope for Bulaga's speedy recovery and lasting good health.

 

[Einstein McFly]

You guys do realize that our vaunted Offense basically spotted them 16 points and flat out botched numerous layup type first downs? IMHO the defense will tighten up and toughen up once we start feeding more and more of Guion's snaps to Boyd/Pennell and once we replace Brad Jones with Jamarri Lattimore, who was said to progress in camp. Last night's game really didn't feel like a butt kicking, it felt more like our team just struggled to make use of easy opportunities to make plays and get things done.

I agree to most of this.The game would have been a lot more competitive if our best players like Rodgers and Nelson hadn't missed on easy plays. Our worst players can't be covered up if our best aren't making plays. This wasn't like the last seahawks game where we couldn't stop their rush for an entire half. We stopped their rush a lot better than they stopped ours. Pass rushing only matters if you can stop the run. If you can't, expect to see TONS of running plays against you. That's why I thought we'd draft Nix or someone, but maybe that's Pennell. Maybe he'll keep Hawk and Jones clean enough to look half decent, although if they miss when they have clean tackling chances like last night then it won't matter who the nose is.

 

[Einstein McFly]

Ted Thompson also needs to take some blame. This roster has no other 3-4 NTs on the roster, so when Raji went down a glaring hole was exposed. Also his lack of interest in upgrading the ILB position is baffling. I actual think Hawk is adequate but Brad Jones is a huge liability and he was abused last night in the run and pass game.

I was worried when they didn't dress Pennel last night that they weren't serious about stopping the run. As for ILB, people need to realize that drafting and ILB just to do it isn't going to help. There were two "sure thing" ILBs last year and they were gone, so drafting a non-first-round talent in the first would be a huge mistake. If a good one is there, they should take it the way they've tried to do with Datone Jones and Clinton-Dix at positions of need. Free agency is going to be dicey with the big money that they've sunk into a few players.

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

.

I agree to most of this.The game would have been a lot more competitive if our best players like Rodgers and Nelson hadn't missed on easy plays. Our worst players can't be covered up if our best aren't making plays. This wasn't like the last seahawks game where we couldn't stop their rush for an entire half. We stopped their rush a lot better than they stopped ours. Pass rushing only matters if you can stop the run. If you can't, expect to see TONS of running plays against you. That's why I thought we'd draft Nix or someone, but maybe that's Pennell. Maybe he'll keep Hawk and Jones clean enough to look half decent, although if they miss when they have clean tackling chances like last night then it won't matter who the nose is.

Our rush was getting penetration and great jumps on the snap all night. They just were not getting home. I remember one play in the 4th, a run play. I think it was Guion got a outstanding jump on the snap and was over their line before the ball was handed off. But because the Seahawks' line hadn't even gotten out of their stances yet they just leaned into his waist and held him back enough to let the play happen; it epitomised the defensive effort last night so well in my mind: close but not enough. Wilson's sub 3.5 second release makes him hard to sack too.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I was worried when they didn't dress Pennel last night that they weren't serious about stopping the run. As for ILB, people need to realize that drafting and ILB just to do it isn't going to help. There were two "sure thing" ILBs last year and they were gone, so drafting a non-first-round talent in the first would be a huge mistake. If a good one is there, they should take it the way they've tried to do with Datone Jones and Clinton-Dix at positions of need. Free agency is going to be dicey with the big money that they've sunk into a few players.

Everybody knew the Packers had to improve at ILB during this offseason. As it was obvious Mosley could be gone by the time the Packers picked in the draft Thompson had to address it in free agency but didn't. Not surprisingly it comes back to haunt us now, just like the safety position last year.

 

[HyponGrey]

"More Personnel, Less Scheme" then they told us they wanted our personnel to be more multiple/versatile. Great idea, let's leave the same guys out there all the time! Oh yeah, and make sure it's the nickel package so we can't stop a kindergartener up the middle.

 

[Croak]

Ok. I had to revisit this thread after watching some games yesterday. It seemed to me that teams who ran the Lebeau/Capers 3-4 were struggling yesterday. Is it possible that teams have adapted to countering that kind of defense and it is on its way out? The rule changes in favor of the offense can't have helped either. Perhaps Coach Capers time is at an end as far as implementing his tyle defense.

 

[rodell330]

I'm still a firm believer that TT is more to blame for the D sucking than Capers. TT has failed numerous times to draft some studs on that side of the ball., especially at ilb and on the d-line. Does Capers need to go? Yep probably but again, look at the Roster on defense. Burnett, jones, Hawk, Nick Perry, verdict still out on Dhaytone Jones who didn't have an impact. All either extended contracts or high draft picks and Hawk is probably the best player on that list and he's just a tad above average. No wonder the defense still looks bad come on now.

 

[rodell330]

I see a lot of talent on this defense that isn't reaching it's potential. To me, that goes on DC and the assistants instead of TT.

I'll say there is talent yes but not as much as you think which leads me to the next question...if there is so much talent and the DC and the assistants are to blame answer me this..after 4awful yrs of defense then how come they are still here ? So IMO TT deserves a lot if blame either way. This team could've hired guys like Rob Ryan, Wade Phillips, or even a younger guy yet it has chosen to stick with Capers. If Capers is the problem then shy not just fire the guy??? Huh Ted??

 

[longtimefan]

^^^

I believe MM is in charge of coaches

 

[rodell330]

^^^

I believe MM is in charge of coaches

Probably so but I don't believe for one minute that TT doesn't have any say in who's brought on board and who gets the boot. If TT wanted change at Dc there would be change period.

 

[ls1bob]

I know it is early still,but if there isn't a progression in the D by the time our bye rolls around then there needs to be a big change in coaching on that side of the ball. DC may have some good ideas but for some reason it isn't getting through to the players, either his schemes don't work for our personnel or offenses have figured out his schemes. It is like ground hog day every game on defense.If Smith goes out Sunday Vick will have a highlight reel on ESPN Sunday night. I just hate seeing Rodgers best years wasted with this malign D. End rant...

 

[TJV]

Capers isn’t going anywhere until the end of the season.

I just hate seeing Rodgers best years wasted with this malign D.

I understand this sentiment but I think your timing is off: If Rodgers doesn't want to waste his best years, he needs to play better than he did against the Seahawks.

 

[rodell330]

Brady won two SBs with a below average defense...that's the only reason I still have hope for a title (very little)even with that side of the ball not being great..It's like I said before the season started , Rodgers and the offense will have to score points and control the clock plain and simple.

 

[rodell330]

Capers isn’t going anywhere until the end of the season. I understand this sentiment but I think your timing is off: If Rodgers doesn't want to waste his best years, he needs to play better than he did against the Seahawks.

Then neither are the packers...I'm still not convinced that we win the North. Nope, and watching the Lions tonight will be interesting especially if they can run the ball and rush the passer that means we could be in trouble.

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

Came across some interesting points on Reddit:

The defense folded in the third and fourth quarters, but let's give some context to the collapse.

At the end of the first half the defense came up with a stop and gave the offense the ball with 2+ minutes to tie the ball game before half. The offense let them down.

After the half the defense came up with another stop and gave the offense another chance to tie the game. They turned the ball over on downs giving Seattle amazing field position.

The defense held once again despite the Seahawks starting at their 40 and the offense repaid them by throwing an INT on the 2nd or 3rd play of the next drive.

The defense held Seattle to a FG despite them starting at GBs 30. The offense takes the field and gives up a safety on the very first play of the drive.

After being on the field for the entire 3rd quarter, the defense finally collapses and gives up a TD.

The defense wasn't pretty Thursday but they also got 0 help from the offense which put them into terrible situations time and time again. They played well enough to keep them in the game through 2 and a half quarters and the offense completely let them down.

I know everyone is sick and tired of the defense getting excuses made for it but I really think that they may have actually outplayed the offense in Seattle.

Thoughts?

 

[TJV]

I think there is some merit to that, NorthWestCheeseHead. Rodgers and the offense certainly bears some responsibility for that game. In addition, the usually reliable Tim Masthay had a couple of crappy punts which didn't help the D. And within the D Brad Jones was a great asset for Seattle.

Regarding the idea of firing Capers mid season and some of the other comments above: First, Thompson is ultimately responsible for football operations, which of course means the team’s performance on the field, but I agree with those who say he wouldn’t force changes on McCarthy’s staff. I get the distinct impression Thompson and McCarthy work together very well. Second, remember what happened this past off season. McCarthy got much more involved with the defense. It looks to me like that led to the change in philosophy away from the behemoths on the DL to the more athletic ones and to the new 4-3 scheme (which didn’t happen to work against Seattle). But that doesn’t mean the new philosophy and variations in the schemes won’t work. In hindsight it may have been better to use the new schemes in preseason. Seattle wouldn’t be surprised but the Packers would have had a chance to iron out the kinks.

Of course I don’t know where the D will end up this year and neither do any of the rest of you. It could jell and significantly improve or fall apart. Or somewhere in between. But I don’t think McCarthy would fire Capers mid-season because IMO he is to some degree responsible for the changes made on D.

 

[Poppa San]

Came across some interesting points on Reddit:



Thoughts?

I'm more concerned with the second quarter when the defense gives up 80 yards in 6 plays (actually 90 as the first play was an offensive holding call) followed by 70 yards in 6 plays. Couldn't have been tired yet. Offense had a 6 minute drive in between.

 

[Forget Favre]

I wish this thread was locked and put away.
I might have to put the thread starter on "ignore" just so I don't have to see the same damn crap about firing Capers every season.
That is not just getting old. It has gotten old.
Why was this bumped?

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

I'd also like to being up a personal observation of mine from the game. I haven't really seen anyone bring it up so it may just be me but our offence seemed to be moving at half speed all night.

 

[Zartan]

I wish this thread was locked and put away.
I might have to put the thread starter on "ignore" just so I don't have to see the same damn crap about firing Capers every season.
That is not just getting old. It has gotten old.
Why was this bumped?

Weather you like it or not this is relevant. Would you rather have someone make a thread every week?