Fire Capers

[Sunshinepacker]

Not really. When you look at the points we scored against them in the two losses, 7 came on a punt return with questionable blocking in the back, 7 came on a Shields INT return, and the last 7 came in garbage time with the game already over.

And we gave up 7 points on terrible field position from a muffed punt. Good offenses score against good defenses. How do you explain the 49ers giving up 34 to the ravens, who aren't exactly a juggernaut on offense? Do the 49ers need a new defensive coordinator?

 

[13 Times Champs]

How do you explain the 49ers giving up 34 to the ravens, who aren't exactly a juggernaut on offense? Do the 49ers need a new defensive coordinator?

Once is an abnormality, multiple times is a pattern.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Once is an abnormality, multiple times is a pattern.

49ers gave up 32 to Saints in 2011 playoffs, 31 against Packers in playoffs this year, 24 against Falcons and 34 against the Ravens. 45 is obviously worse than any of those but I think we'd all agree that the Packers's defense is not up to the 49ers' caliber as far as personnel goes; my point being that while 45 is worse in absolute terms, the 49ers giving up 34 to the Ravens is, relatively, almost as bad

 

[ExpatPacker]

49ers gave up 32 to Saints in 2011 playoffs, 31 against Packers in playoffs this year, 24 against Falcons and 34 against the Ravens. 45 is obviously worse than any of those but I think we'd all agree that the Packers's defense is not up to the 49ers' caliber as far as personnel goes; my point being that while 45 is worse in absolute terms, the 49ers giving up 34 to the Ravens is, relatively, almost as bad

Saints 2011 had one of the most high-powered offenses in a long time, and in the SB,1 of the Ravens' touchdowns was a kickoff return and SF outgained the Ravens by 100 yards.

GB's defense has gotten their ***es handed to them in the playoffs the last 2 years, and if Joe Webb hadn't been the QB for the Vikings, who knows how that game would have gone?

You can only make up so many excuses for the OC. The defensive players he has this year are a marked improvement from 2 years ago. He has to do something with that. If SF rolls over this defense in week 1, I'll be one of the first to say enough is enough. Sometimes you just need a different attitude on your defense to make things better.

 

[13 Times Champs]

49ers gave up 32 to Saints in 2011 playoffs, 31 against Packers in playoffs this year, 24 against Falcons and 34 against the Ravens. 45 is obviously worse than any of those but I think we'd all agree that the Packers's defense is not up to the 49ers' caliber as far as personnel goes; my point being that while 45 is worse in absolute terms, the 49ers giving up 34 to the Ravens is, relatively, almost as bad

Actually the SF defense did not give up 34 points to the Ravens. Remember that 108 yard kickoff return? The SF defense gave up 367 yards (ask yourself where we would have been if our defense had given up 367 yards). While not a shutdown effort on the part of the 49ers do you really want to compare that to the 579 total yards surrendered and 323 rushing yards by Kaepernick against us? Be my guest.

 

[TJV]

Yeah I'm not seeing the fault in my thought process of evaluating a defense. Thought sure it was delivered in an overly simplistic fashion. Sunshinepacker's position focuses on "points scored against" as the sole determining factor of how good or bad a defensive unit is preforming.

I don’t know if Sunshinepacker views points surrendered as the “sole” determiner of the quality of a defense (or just the most important) and you’ll get no argument from me your post was simplistic. Simply put you base your belief that yards surrendered are more important than points surrendered because restricting yards leads to restricting points. So in the end you agree points are more important, which they obviously are. Sorry to have hurt your feelings.

 

[Dan115]

You can give up 600 yards but----- if they do NOT SCORE____ victory!!!

 

[12theTruth]

I'm thinking Walden Moses will be getting cut so we won't have to worry about his lack of instinct in being in the right gap. Hawk is fundamentally sound but slow. Matthews is great and from what I've seen in preseason so far it looks like Perry is going to be a good contributor this season. Brad Jones flashed a few times in preseason but so far in his Packer career he hasn't done much to stand out. Maybe with more starting experience as an inside backer he will blossom into a force. Unlikely but lets hope so.

If you look at it, all the way through the Packers middle on defense we basically have "just a guy" players. Pickett, Hawk , Brad Jones, McMillian, and Morgan Burnett (although Burnett has came along way from his prior inconsistencies- he is nowhere near Nick Collins caliber).

How much of a factor will Jolly and his knack for disrupting the offensive line's blocking have? Even though it looks as if our pass rush will be much improved, how will our front seven do at setting the edge against power running teams this season? There are some signs of hope but recent history has made me learn to keep a handle on my optimism!

 

[Dan115]

I'm thinking Walden will be getting cut so we won't have to worry about his lack of instinct in being in the right gap. Hawk is fundamentally sound but slow. Matthews is great and from what I've seen in preseason so far it looks like Perry is going to be a good contributor this season. Brad Jones flashed a few times in preseason but so far in his Packer career he hasn't done much to stand out. Maybe with more starting experience as an inside backer he will blossum into a force. Unlikely but lets hope so.

If you look at it all the way through the Packers middle on defense we basically have "just a guy" players. Pickett, Hawk , Brad Jones, McMillian, and Morgan Burnett (although Burnett has came along way from his prior inconsistancies).

How much of a factor will Jolly and his knack for disrupting the offfensive line's blocking have? Even though it looks as if our pass rush will be much improved, how will our front seven do at setting the edge against power running teams this season? There are some signs of hope but recent history has made me learn to keep a handle on my optimism!

Erick Walden??? Are the colts going to cut him?

 

[12theTruth]

Erick Walden??? Are the colts going to cut him?

That should have said Dezman Moses. What is your reading eye glass subscription? I can see just fine at size 12 font. Not to mention if you're going to correct someone could you at least spell your attempt to ridicule correctly. LOL

 

[Dan115]

That should have said Dezman Moses. What is your reading eye glass subscription? I can see just fine at size 12 font. Not too mention if you're going to correct someone could you at least spell your attempt to ridicule correctly. LOL

Oh very sorry, LOL Will try to ridicule much better in da future. LOL

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Actually the SF defense did not give up 34 points to the Ravens. Remember that 108 yard kickoff return? The SF defense gave up 367 yards (ask yourself where we would have been if our defense had given up 367 yards). While not a shutdown effort on the part of the 49ers do you really want to compare that to the 579 yards and 323 rushing yards by Kaepernick against us? Be my guest.

Why dp people insist on poking holes in examples that are used to illustrate a point, rather than address the actual underlying argument. My argument isn't that the Packers' defense is as good as the 49ers. My contention is that playoff teams tend to have offenses that make even good defenses mediocre. So when a team like the Packers, who has an average defense, faces a strong offense, it can make the average defense look bad.

Let's put this a different way. Capers defense got shredded by the 49ers this year in the playoffs. You say he needs to go because he does ok against all but the best teams. Aldon Smith didn't have any sacks against the Packers or in the playoffs at all last year. He also didn't have any sacks in six weeks in 2012. Does that mean he's a poor linebacker because he only gets his sacks against the weak teams (5.5 of his sacks last year were in one game against Chicago)?

 

[13 Times Champs]

Why dp people insist on poking holes in examples that are used to illustrate a point, rather than address the actual underlying argument. My argument isn't that the Packers' defense is as good as the 49ers. My contention is that playoff teams tend to have offenses that make even good defenses mediocre. So when a team like the Packers, who has an average defense, faces a strong offense, it can make the average defense look bad.

Let's put this a different way. Capers defense got shredded by the 49ers this year in the playoffs. You say he needs to go because he does ok against all but the best teams. Aldon Smith didn't have any sacks against the Packers or in the playoffs at all last year. He also didn't have any sacks in six weeks in 2012. Does that mean he's a poor linebacker because he only gets his sacks against the weak teams (5.5 of his sacks last year were in one game against Chicago)?

I didn't come up with the example, YOU DID. You made the comparison between the Packers and the 49ers and said they were no worse and ask if the defensive coordinator should be fired. So I shredded that argument by you. Then in your current post you come up with yet another pointless Aldon Smith mention.

My point regarding Capers is that the Packers have had back to back defensive failures in the playoffs. I say he needs to go because of that. I think we are probably in for three but I hope not.


I don't give a damn what the 49ers do but somehow saying we aren't so bad by making a stupid comparison doesn't wash with me.

 

[HyponGrey]

Seriously, does anyone know the details of Capers' contract? I can't find it. I keep getting pigeonholed by my search engines

 

[TJV]

Seriously, does anyone know the details of Capers' contract? I can't find it. I keep getting pigeonholed by my search engines

I can't find it either. As far as I can tell Capers' contract was last extended through the end of last season and I can't find any information on the deal currently in place for him.

 

[HyponGrey]

I can't find it either. As far as I can tell Capers' contract was last extended through the end of last season and I can't find any information on the deal currently in place for him.

I'm going to assume he doesn't have one, and is only volunteering for kicks and giggles.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I didn't come up with the example, YOU DID. You made the comparison between the Packers and the 49ers and said they were no worse and ask if the defensive coordinator should be fired. So I shredded that argument by you. Then in your current post you come up with yet another pointless Aldon Smith mention.

My point regarding Capers is that the Packers have had back to back defensive failures in the playoffs. I say he needs to go because of that. I think we are probably in for three but I hope not.


I don't give a damn what the 49ers do but somehow saying we aren't so bad by making a stupid comparison doesn't wash with me.

No, you didn't shred the argument, you simply pointed out the same problem that I did, the example was not a perfect one. You have not yet asserted why a defense should only be judged on one game every season rather than the entirety of the season. I used examples to try and explain that defenses tend to give up more yards in the playoffs because they play better teams. I then used Aldon Smith as an example because he had a really good season but according to the requirement you put on the overall defense, he's only good against poor teams, therefore he's not a very good linebacker. I could just as easily have used Von Miller or a number of other players. Instead of facing the overall point of what I was saying you're only focusing on the minor details.

For example: you focus on my comparison to the 49ers rather than realizing that the Falcons (who had the fifth best scoring defense last year) gave up 491 yards to Seattle. Should they fire their defensive coordinator? Denver (4th best scoring defense) gave up 479 yards of offense to the Ravens. The Texans gave up 457 yards to the Patriots in the playoffs. All of these examples are to point out that you can't judge the value of a coach/player based on such a limited sample size, that's my argument.

 

[13 Times Champs]

No, you didn't shred the argument, you simply pointed out the same problem that I did, the example was not a perfect one. You have not yet asserted why a defense should only be judged on one game every season rather than the entirety of the season. I used examples to try and explain that defenses tend to give up more yards in the playoffs because they play better teams. I then used Aldon Smith as an example because he had a really good season but according to the requirement you put on the overall defense, he's only good against poor teams, therefore he's not a very good linebacker. I could just as easily have used Von Miller or a number of other players. Instead of facing the overall point of what I was saying you're only focusing on the minor details.

I don't think Capers has been a very good defensive coordinator the past two seasons. He hasn't done well against the better teams which I have pointed out. It is not just the playoffs where he hasn't performed. See my post 683. That was my position when I started and now.

And yes I shredded your example. Do you remember this statement? "my point being that while 45 is worse in absolute terms, the 49ers giving up 34 to the Ravens is, relatively, almost as bad". Nope!

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I don't think Capers has been a very good defensive coordinator the past two seasons. He hasn't done well against the better teams which I have pointed out. It is not just the playoffs where he hasn't performed. See my post 683. That was my position when I started and now. And yes I shredded your example.

Ok, ok, you shredded my admittedly imprecise example by proving it was imprecise. And my entire point is that no coach does well against all the good teams. That's why those other teams are good.

 

[milani]

And we gave up 7 points on terrible field position from a muffed punt. Good offenses score against good defenses. How do you explain the 49ers giving up 34 to the ravens, who aren't exactly a juggernaut on offense? Do the 49ers need a new defensive coordinator?

Ravens also scored on a special teams TD. They, too, were helped by a defensive turnover. But they also play smash mouth football on both sides of the ball. Their lines played the 9ers lines at least to a standoff. But in our case we got blown out on both sides of the ball.

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

I don’t know if Sunshinepacker views points surrendered as the “sole” determiner of the quality of a defense (or just the most important) and you’ll get no argument from me your post was simplistic. Simply put you base your belief that yards surrendered are more important than points surrendered because restricting yards leads to restricting points. So in the end you agree points are more important, which they obviously are. Sorry to have hurt your feelings.

I refuse to talk in circles with you; ignored.

 

[TJV]

Good, and it's funny you used the word "circles" NorthWestCheeseHead because your "argument" was circular.

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

Good, and it's funny you used the word "circles" NorthWestCheeseHead because your "argument" was circular.

Cool story bro. It is called illustrating cause and effect. Or to say that one is a derivative of the other in most cases. All in all you've said nothing to prove me otherwise and have just been blatantly rude for no reason what so ever. Troll harder man.

 

[TJV]

You posted something foolish and I pointed it out. And now even you can't pay attention to what you post:

I refuse to talk in circles with you; ignored.

What happened to "ignored", bro?

...bro...

For a second there, I thought you would at least stop digging.

 

[NorthWestCheeseHead]

I didn't come up with the example, YOU DID. You made the comparison between the Packers and the 49ers and said they were no worse and ask if the defensive coordinator should be fired. So I shredded that argument by you. Then in your current post you come up with yet another pointless Aldon Smith mention.

My point regarding Capers is that the Packers have had back to back defensive failures in the playoffs. I say he needs to go because of that. I think we are probably in for three but I hope not.


I don't give a damn what the 49ers do but somehow saying we aren't so bad by making a stupid comparison doesn't wash with me.

You should add 2009 vs the Cards in that group of failures as well. To be fair though, each year that Capers has been in Green Bay we've been knocked off by the eventual NFC rep in the Super Bowl. (Cards in '09, Giants in '11, and the 9'ers last year).