1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Big Announcement Coming for 2015 Football Season!!

    Be on the look out for a big Packer Forum announcement when the schedule is released. Full details coming soon...

Favre should retire--he doesn't have it anymore

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by PPierce, Dec 26, 2005.

  1. PPierce

    PPierce Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    94
    Ratings:
    +0
    Tough topic, I know, but I spent the weekend out of town was able to hear the perspective of fans in other cities and also many call in radio shows that I normally don't get. Seems that only we Wisconsinites still think Favre has it. Sure, we have had terrible luck, but Favre is making horrible decisions. He isn't the QB he once was, and it's unlikely he can go out on top. Even next year, with maybe most of our guys back, Brett doesn't have what he once did, and he won't change. I feel that to rebuild we need Favre to retire and that maybe he will because he is getting a lot of negative press now, something that he never did before (except in Wisconsin). Even some Wisconsinites who call in think Rogers should get playing time. These games won't help us and we need to see if he's good or not so we can go with him as the future or draft another. I loved Brett, but I'm starting to get impatient with him. I think it's time to quit making excuses to look to maybe having a winning franchise again in a few years. I know this will get some angry, but I don't care. It's how I feel, I'm not alone, and probably a lot of people are afraid to post the same thing. I don't believe all Packer fans think that watching Favre look so painfully awful is good. While we're at it, Longwell needs to take a hike. Without an offensive line, a QB who will adapt to change, or a kicker who can kick even short field goals, we're almost the Texans. I don't ever want to get THAT bad.
     
  2. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,000
    Ratings:
    +3
    so its just a coincidence hes having his worst year when his pro bowl Wr, pro bowl RB, pro bowl TE(was he ever a pro bowl te? well hes good though), pro bowl offensive linemen leave or get injured. Just a big ol coincydink huh.

    k, well I disagree.
     
  3. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,854
    Ratings:
    +1
    before anyone responds, try to keep this to a rationale level-headed thread.

    Believe it or not, I sort of disagree, ppierce (I'm one of the most outspoken against Brett on this board). I agree w/ what you say that we're making excuse after excuse, our green and gold glasses are clouding what everyone else can see, and he's unwilling to change his ways.

    W/ that said, he is still one of the 5 most talented qbs in the league, and IF, IF, IF someone could tame him slightly, and this team gets healthy, he can still contribute a lot. Brett's playoff performances and brain farts concern me, but he still has the talent.
     
  4. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,854
    Ratings:
    +1
    tromadz...no doubt those things contribute, but the interceptions and poor decisions have always plagued brett, in the playoffs vs. Dallas in the early 90s, his infamous dome performances for the majority of his career (that was even a big concern going into SB31), his playoff performances v. St Louis, Atl, Mn...etc.

    And the lack of talent thing doesn't quite fly with me...again, YES, it contributes, but every year you have crappy teams w/ 3-13 records, but how often do their qbs throw 28 picks?
     
  5. musccy

    musccy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,854
    Ratings:
    +1
    tromadz...no doubt those things contribute, but the interceptions and poor decisions have always plagued brett, in the playoffs vs. Dallas in the early 90s, his infamous dome performances for the majority of his career (that was even a big concern going into SB31), his playoff performances v. St Louis, Atl, Mn...etc.

    And the lack of talent thing doesn't quite fly with me...again, YES, it contributes, but every year you have crappy teams w/ 3-13 records, but how often do their qbs throw 28 picks?
     
  6. JbShell

    JbShell Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2005
    Messages:
    796
    Ratings:
    +0
    Ok Ok Favre may retire he may not really does it make a difference. The biggest problem I have seen with Brett is his lack of Playing time in the Preseason. The Preseason is made for gelling with your fellow players. I think Brett has fallen off since his move Back to Kiln MS. I know I know it is his childhood home but when he was in GB he was more grounded and his mind was with it. Now he is just flaky when it comes to the first four or five games of the season. This makes the Pack have to climb out of deep holes which is not in Favres strengths.

    Furthermore I do believe Favres offseason conditioning program F'ed him up. We all know that when you change your routine your body mechanics get out of sorts. I believe if he sucks this season up and comes back he will be phenominal next year
     
  7. Buckeyepackfan

    Buckeyepackfan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    804
    Ratings:
    +0
    Keep listening to the so-called exprts on the radio and tv. Do you ever wonder why they want to talk about Brett Favre so much.

    The answer is they think it helps their ratings. Especially if someone blasts Brett, because they know that The Packer fan base is huge and they will come to his defense.

    These clowns in the media can't wait for a star to fall, so they can bash them into the ground and say, see I told you so.

    Without Brett Favre this year every week would have been like the Baltimore game a week ago.

    The only reason Brett's numbers aren't as good as past years is because he is trying to carry this team on his shoulders. Donald Driver is the only legitimate threat left on the offense, he is constantly being double teamed, the other recievers can't get seperation, don't run crisp routes, or in Fergusons case, has already packed it in for the year.

    I could go on forever about reasons, but I would just be accused of making excuses.

    Bottom line, Brett is not having his best year, but I for one hopes he realizes that the fools on the radio and tv don't have a clue, the Packer fans I hang with are not looking foward to the day when #4 hangs them up, that is the day we really start rebuilding and you can look foward to at least a few 4-12 or 6-10 seasons.

    A few good moves from TT in the off season, with the schedule the Packers have next season(just saw the teams posted on Packers.com), and injured players coming back, plus the experience gained by the young players this year, we have a legitimate shot at a successful season next year, and I for one hope Brett is leading this team in that success.
     
  8. yooperfan

    yooperfan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2004
    Messages:
    1,900
    Ratings:
    +0
    [Rogers should get playing time. These games won't help us and we need to see if he's good or not so we can go with him as the future or draft another.
    .[/quote]
    How can you possibly think that you could evaluate Rogers with this rag tag bunch of players we are putting on the field right now.
    About the only thing that could come of throwing him out there is that his confidence could be shattered beyond repair.
    Worse yet he could get seriously injured and then we would never know what he might have been.
    I know it's hard to watch Brett right now but it makes more sense to let the veteran play out the string, try to get this ship back on an even keel,and then see what Rogers can bring to the table during training camp and preseason.
     
  9. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,207
    Ratings:
    +0
    What some of you ingrates need to have happen is to have Favre go over and join those purple mother-f***ers and lead them to a SB win....

    keep pushin' and something like this will happen...

    (either that or your just going to have a bunch of 2-14 seasons with Aaron Rodgers and SherRossley on your hands...)

    and i hope you'll be very happy...

    Welcome back to the 1970's....Green BAy Packers....
     
  10. CalifPacker

    CalifPacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    757
    Ratings:
    +1
    I also dis-agree that Brett Favre should retire and that he doesn't have it anymore. True, he is having a career INT year and making a number of bad decisions. He is trying to do it all with a poor supporting cast. The amount of major injuries took its toll on the whole team.
     
  11. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,247
    Ratings:
    +9
  12. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2004
    Messages:
    11,903
    Ratings:
    +8
    hes good still


    who is better to replace him that we can get??
     
  13. Buckeyepackfan

    Buckeyepackfan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    804
    Ratings:
    +0
    Great post Philtration!!!

    Congratulations on a Norh champoinship, if it can't be the Packers, then The Bears are the next best choice.

    I think Phil is trying to make a great point in his own subtle way, I get it!!!

    The only people who will be happy to see Brett Favre retire are the 31 Defensive co-ordinaters in the league who will not have to worry about Brett burning their defenses like they know he still can.
     
  14. PACKATTACK4

    PACKATTACK4 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Messages:
    66
    Ratings:
    +0
    "The spirit to win, the will to excel, these things endure and are greater than any of the events that may occassion them." There is not a player who lives this more than #4. His will to win is tremendous. Too bad we don't have players with half of what Brett has. He does not care about his stats or what people think, he cares about winning games. If he listened to you guys he'd throw the ball out of bounds on third and 8 and punt the ball away. The Pack would never win. He puts it up and wants his guys to make plays and give it their all. A QB can only do so much when he is constantly in third and 8, empty backfield , and a blitz coming. Someone needs to step up and make a play.
    " ... any man's finest hour - to all he holds dear is the moment when he has worked his heart out for a good cause and lies totally exhausted on the field of battle...." This is why Brett Favre still is a great QB and gives the Packers the best chance to win. He lives what Lombardi preached. It's unfortunate he doesn't have anyone else willing to make the effort to win football games. It's hard to soar with eagles when you are surrounded by turkeys.
     
  15. PackerTraxx

    PackerTraxx Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,028
    Ratings:
    +0
    Most of Brett's int problems came when Holmgren left.
     
  16. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,207
    Ratings:
    +0
    and SherRossley got here...
     
  17. Buckeyepackfan

    Buckeyepackfan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    804
    Ratings:
    +0
    Brett's career #'s
    year......td......int.
    1992.....18......13
    1993.....19......24
    1994.....33......14
    1995.....38......13
    1996.....39......13
    1997.....35......16
    1998.....31......23
    1999.....22......23
    2000.....20......16
    2001.....32......15
    2002.....27......16
    2003.....32......21
    2004.....30......17
    2005.....19......28

    Ok Stats don't lie, Brett has been pretty consistent throughout the years, until this year, his int.numbers were up in Holmgrens last year, then went back down after Sherman was hired.

    One more time......IT'S NOT THE COACHES FAULT, IT'S NOT THAT BRETT HAS LOST IT, we have been decimated with injuries this year, He has very little talent around him, things will only get better, unless Brett starts listening to all the nay-sayers and decides to get away from it all.
     
  18. WinnipegPackFan

    WinnipegPackFan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,943
    Ratings:
    +0
    Exactly !!!

    I for one hope he is not listining to any of the "Bunk" so he can come back and prove them all wrong ( not that he has anything to prove ) but I would sure like to see some people eat some crow. Oh Yeah "lots of crow"
     
  19. vixtalkn

    vixtalkn Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2004
    Messages:
    197
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanx for the honest post Buckeyepackfan. Before the discontented write him off, I hope they take note that FavreO's 2005 numbers look awfully similar to his 1993 numbers. Perhaps someone wants to take a stab at explaining why.
     
  20. Buckeyepackfan

    Buckeyepackfan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    804
    Ratings:
    +0
    Funny how a cold hard fact or two will shut some people up, for awhile anyway.
     
  21. PPierce

    PPierce Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    94
    Ratings:
    +0
    The problem is, and it's a big one, that he refuses to change. He is making shockingly horrible decisions that can't be blamed on not being on a good team. Sure, he'd be better if he had a great team around him, but I do think part of the problem is Brett himself. We need to give the future a chance, and that won't happen as long as Brett is here. He isn't going to go out on top. Our team is rebuilding and, even when the guys who are injured come back, it is still going to be a few years before we are competitive again. Brett, and I love him, also refuses to commit to playing or not playing and wants Sherman to come back if he does. That means more Sherman just because Brett doesn't want to learn a new system. It's sad to hear what people in other cities are saying about him. Rather than respecting him, most are saying he needs to sit and let the kid play to see if the kid can hack it or if the Packers need a new QB altogether. I think others can see what we can't because we are so emotionally involved with this team. We are looking at the past and not ahead. Just as Ahman Green doesn't have it anymore, neither does Favre. He is 37, way past the time most football players can do it, and he isn't anymore. IF he doesn't retire, my biggest hope is that we continue to look towards the future and see if AR is the man to replace Favre or if we need somebody else. But we need to think way beyond Favre because he's about had it. He doesn't even look happy about playing and I never dreamed I'd see the day when he threw balls right into the hands of the other team. It's scary. Every time he passes, I just know it's going to hit the arms of an opposing player. Excuses just don't cut it anymore.
     
  22. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,247
    Ratings:
    +9
    Why would Favre have to come back to prove anything? His stats will make him a first ballot hall of famer, he has a Super Bowl ring and 3 MVPs. He does not have to try and turn back the clock for anyone including himself.
    Not every player can finish his career with a fairy tale ending. Very few of them do. Elway went out on top but his skills had fallen off and the Broncos had become a running team at that point. Do you remember Willy Mays tripping over first base as an old man? How about Dr. J looking slow and stiff at the end? Tony Dorsett trying to play with the Broncos or O.J. Simpson looking like he was 60 years old with the 49ers? Didn’t Jerry Rice just drag his career out too long and go out with a whimper?
    I was at Joe Namath's last game in 1977 and it was not a pretty ending. The Bears beat up an aging icon until Doug Plank put a merciful end to it. Everyone there pretty much knew that we had witnessed the end and it was kind of sad. He stayed at least one year to many and that image of him being pummeled is the one that I remember. Not the defiant young man raising his finger as he ran off the field after beating the Colts in the Super Bowl.
     
  23. Buckeyepackfan

    Buckeyepackfan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2005
    Messages:
    804
    Ratings:
    +0
    I was at Joe Namath's last game in 1977 and it was not a pretty ending. The Bears beat up an aging icon until Doug Plank put a merciful end to it. Everyone there pretty much knew that we had witnessed the end and it was kind of sad. He stayed at least one year to many and that image of him being pummeled is the one that I remember. Not the defiant young man raising his finger as he ran off the field after beating the Colts in the Super Bowl.

    You cannot compare Joe Namath and Brett Favre. Namath had no knees left, and tried to keep playing, he had been injured several times in his career.


    I don't see a drop off in Brett's performance other than he is trying to force throws to players who don't have the talent or will to fight for the ball and make an exceptional play.


    Take away Edjerin James, Dominick Rhodes, Marvin Harrison, Brandon Stokely, and the next 5 running backs on the Indy depth chart. throw in an offensive line that had a revolving door at both guards, and add to it a defense who went through a lot of growing pains early in the season, then see what Peyton Mannings stats would look like.


    After all that I will take a Brett Favre who makes mistakes over most any QB in the league right now, because when Brett Favre takes the field you know you are going to get his best everytime, if that isn't good enough to win then I can live with it.


    There is not a QB in the league who could have put up more wins than Brett did with the supporting cast he had this year.


    Next year with help from the draft, experience gained by the young guys this year, and just a little luck on the injury side of things, I predict you see the old Brett Favre back on the field, that is unless he decides to pack it in because he is tired of listening to all the crap from so-called experts who don't have a clue.
     
  24. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    2,247
    Ratings:
    +9
    I disagree. You guys keep saying that the Packers were in just about every game this season so how can another QB like Manning, Brady or Palmer not have won at least a couple of those games for them. Favre leads the league in INTs and that does have a bearing on the outcome of the games. You can't throw 4 picks and say that no other QB could have done more because that's not true. The last 4 games he has done what? 10 picks and zero TDs? That's not even close to being good enough. Hell, that's not even close to being Joey Harrington! :roll:
     
  25. PPierce

    PPierce Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    94
    Ratings:
    +0
    Favre hasn't thrown a TD in four games. I guess I'm the only one on the board who will say it, but I've heard Wisconsinites from call in shows, say what I say: He doesn't have it anymore. If he had a great team to prop him up, sure, he could last a little longer and his receiver that is left would not be double-teamed, but he is not as he was during his greatness and is making terrible decisions. He refuses to change, and he is a Sherman fan because he doesn't want to learn a new system. If his name wasn't Brett Favre, he probably wouldn't be around next year. I loved what he did for the franchise for so many years, but he can't do it anymore, both because the team isn't as good and because he also isn't as good. I'm not even sure he doesn't call some of those plays himself. It is painful to see him in the twilight of his career like this.
     

Share This Page