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Favre is overrated

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Yared-Yam, Nov 26, 2007.

  1. gwh11

    gwh11 Cheesehead

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    Hornung was an important part of Lombardi's first championship teams, and obviously the rings carry a lot of weight with the HOF voters. Lombardi stated that Hornung was a tremendous clutch player, and his versatility should also be considered. He was one of the most famous NFL players in his time, and as is the case with Namath, that fame gave him a boost. It is the "Hall Of Fame" and not the "Hall Of Statistics". So there are going to be players who, statistically at least, would seem to come up short when measured against some of their peers who have been voted in. Clearly, it's not just about stats, nor should it be. That's part of what makes it interesting to discuss.
     
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  2. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Jay cutler has one expression, I try not to speculate on his emotions.

    Please, tell me more about your "grace under pressure". You Eli manning you. I hope you are better than favre when it counts.
     
  3. fanindaup

    fanindaup Cheesehead

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    I'm an executive chef. If you want horror stories about pulling off meals on three different floors with a broken down elevator and that type of thing you'll have to wait for my book. Since I've been running kitchens since before Favre threw a football and I'm still at it, I can say for certain I am better than he is when it counts.
     
  4. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That, my friend, is exactly the point. +2

    It puts the stat-obsessed homers in a bind. To deny Namath based on the stat arguments presented above would necessitate denying Hornung. I used the term "stat-obsessed" rather than "stat geek"...geeks scratch below the superficial and can come up with interesting insights, as with PFF.
     
  5. Raptorman

    Raptorman Vikings fan since 1966.

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    Some players are in the HOF because they were good players on championship teams. Some should be, some should not be in. I don't think Namath should be. Hornung, well he did score a lot of points. Compared to todays players, I doubt he would make it. Does he benefit from being on a Championship team. Yes. Does he belong? Hard for me to say, I don't remember seeing him play. Namath, I remember watching him. Was never impressed with his play.

    I was always under the impression that you got in for overall excellence on the field over a period of time. Now lately, if you don't win a Super Bowl you have to wait forever if at all. I know there are better players that are not in then some that are. I think part of the problem with the HOF is that the number teams have expanded over the years but the number of players allowed in has not. And it seems to me to be more of what your team did more than what you did these days. To say the least, I'm not real impressed with it anymore.

    Favre will get in for two reasons, longevity/stats, and the two Super Bowl appearances.
     
  6. Whatthehellsgoinonouthere

    Whatthehellsgoinonouthere Cheesehead

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    When I see you say longevity, I think that you think he'll get in for playing 20 years which I believe is wrong. He'll get in for the streak. Which is NFL's answer to Cal Ripken.
     
  7. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    Short memory for a Viking fan. The number one reason Favre will get in is all of the gutsy plays that he made as a QB. They don't show his "streak" on video replays and his SB pass to Rison is usually on the highlight reel but not at #1. It's all of his crazy passes, his incredible throws, and unique ability to avoid the rush. I'm sure that you remember that pass to Greg (who?) Lewis in the back of the endzone to beat the 49ers. THAT is what Favre is remembered for doing. His bombs to Sterling Sharpe. His "rocket balls" that broke fingers. His still unbelievable/memorable Irv Favre game against the Raiders. His underhand and push-pass TD throws. The Antonio Freeman catch against the Vikings. The snowball fights. His rivalry with Warren Sapp. His knack for comeback victories. His annihilation of the Ravens SB defense in 2001 (391 yards & 4TDs) when everyone said he was washed up. Of course there were the bad plays that were just as memorable. His penchant for throwing interceptions in playoff games, including 4 against the Vikings in 2005 and 6 against the Rams in 2002. His 5 INT game against the Bengels in 2005. The INT against the Giants in the 2007 Championship game. The INT in the 2009 Championship game against the Saints. . .and all of the "boneheaded" (thanks Mike Holmgren) plays that he made just before and after great plays.

    Don't sell Favre short. His legacy is the gunslinger. The streak and stats came along well afterward and merely cemented his place in NFL history.
     
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  8. Whatthehellsgoinonouthere

    Whatthehellsgoinonouthere Cheesehead

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    El Guapo thank you for making the point I tried to make 3 years ago and got booed for. We all remember the last pass he threw as a Packer putting the Giants in the Superbowl, and everybody says "He's crap" because of that. We forget his Irv Favre game, or the game he had against the Bears on MNF in '94. We forget the comeback against the Raiders where he got hurt and played through it. We forget that you couldn't knock this man down and out. The thing that upsets me the MOST is that the Seattle game just one week before the Giants game...is all but forgotten. Grant fumbles twice, we're down 14-0 before the offense successfully runs a play. Brett by himself carries this team to a playoff win in front of the home crowd in what could almost be described as a blizzard. The pass to Donald Lee was just pure old school Favre. Nobody could've completed that pass, and nobody would've had the sack to try. All we see is the Purple Uni, and the ugly divorce with Green Bay. We forget that at this stage in his career, he's done more than Aaron with less or at most comparable players offensively. And for those who may bag on me for saying that. I know I'm a Favre guy, but I'm also a Rodgers guy. I'm just not fully a Ted Thompson guy because Ted purposely made the team worse for 2 full seasons, wasn't fired and as a Packer fan that's unacceptable.
     
  9. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    But as a packer fan you are ok with Brett calling the lions and telling them everything he knew about the packers offense?
     
  10. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Brett by himself?

    After Brett tossed a few passes to make it 14-7 the next time GB had the ball, they had 9 plays--- Brett had 4 pass plays (went3-4) Grant ran it 5 times..The last 4 plays were all runs by Grant and led to a TD

    Then it was tied 14-14

    Finals stats

    Grant 201 yards rushing for 7.4 per carry and 3 tds

    Brett tossed it 23 times, with 3 tds
    Grant ran it 27 times..

    But yes..Brett ALL BY HIMSELF won that game

    When Brett had 6 int vs the Rams in the playoffs, (in a dome ,no wind and not cold) did you ever blamed Brett? I think you prob didnt..

    Ryan who had those 2 fumbles (outside in the cold) came back and broke a GB record if I am not mistaken..

    Brett tossed those 6 ints never made up for it like Ryan did
     
  11. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    You can almost hear the creak of the top of that can of worms opening !!!! "Gentlemen, start your engines !!"
     
  12. gwh11

    gwh11 Cheesehead

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    As an aside, I'm wondering if anyone here actually read the Paolantonio book (I haven't). I do know it was largely panned by aficionados, and have seen references to several errors in the work. If someone here has read it, maybe they could relate his (Paolantonio's) arguments as to why Namath is overrated. The quote "His legend has much more to do with his Super Bowl III performance and his prolific off-field antics than his career stats" doesn't necessarily answer that question. For example, does Paolantonio think he's overrated because he was elected to the HOF? Or that his stats didn't measure up to his peers (or does he compare Namath's stats to those of more recent QB's [which would be a mistake])? Or that his place/effect/influence on AFL (and NFL) history is inflated or exaggerated? Or all of the above?
     
  13. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Don't you Brits call it the "engine bay"? btw, here in the USA we now say Gentlemen and Lady start your engines. :D
     
  14. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I apologise for my political incorrectness :roflmao:
     
  15. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    I don't think that we need to nit pick too much on Whatthehellsgoingonouthere. We know what his main point was about Favre's legacy and I think that most of us agree with it. I too recognized his statement about the Seattle game. Favre did play well but so did Grant, who went from double goat status to double hero in one game. Let's not forget the superb job that the pillsbury doughboy did shutting down Patrick Kerney - no tackles or sacks if I remember correctly. Having Deon Branch leave the game early with that knee injury also helped. Lots of ins, outs, and what have yous.

    Anyway, the whole point is that Favre hurt us all with his end of career actions, but it doesn't erase his play before then. He will go into the HOF likely on the first ballot, whether some of us have gotten over this or not. I got past a lot of girlfriends before I found Mrs. El Guapo. I didn't dwell on the ones that hurt me. I moved on. I didn't forget, but I moved on. As the great Tommy Chong once said, "Mellow. Melllllow.... Melllllllowwwww.......... Mmmellllllllowwwwwwwwww................WHA!!!"
     
  16. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    He will go in on 1st ballot no doubt about it...He was great, but also sucked..Sometimes in same quarter of a game...

    But He deserves to be in the Packer HOF
     
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  17. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    It's the ever lasting charm of Favre. We loved and hated him all in the same game. Now we loved and hated him when you look at his entire career. The pattern remained the same.
     
  18. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Favre is a first ballot HOFer. There is no debate about this. Hmm this just gave me an idea for a thread.
     
  19. kmf4pack

    kmf4pack Cheesehead

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    Sal has got to be the biggest idiot in the football world, or a Bears or Viking fan.
     
  20. fanindaup

    fanindaup Cheesehead

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    aren't those synonymous?
     

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