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Fan reaction to no. 4 at Lambeau

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Skol guy, Oct 21, 2009.

  1. CM_Awesome

    CM_Awesome Cheesehead

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    In that 2007 NFC Championship Game, Favre wasn't the only one who played like crap, I'll give you that. But his mistakes were by far the most costly. In my opinion at least. It just started becoming a broken record. Favre has noone to throw to, so he just throws it up anywhere which leads to a game ending interception.

    As for Rodgers. Does he hold on the ball too long? Yes, I think he does. Just because I'm a Packers fan doesn't mean I won't criticize my team's players as well. I give half the blame to the O-Line and half to Rodgers.

    I really didn't have the time or energy to look up every single match-up.

    As for the talent on the Vikings team, that is going to help Favre out a lot. That's why I think Minnesota can still win 12 or 13 games even if Favre has another breakdown, cause he has more players to lean on. But once the playoffs starts, and you have to put the ball in Favre's hands to win a game, look out!
     
  2. jrpack

    jrpack Cheesehead

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    Sometimes it's better to take the sack than risk a turnover, which is one of the things Favre had trouble figuring out. I don't know the numbers either on how many of those sacks on Rodgers were third down plays in which case you're better off to eat the ball than turn it over. But I gotta admit Favre is playing a lot smarter, but then he's with the team he's always wanted to be with.
     
  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I hate the Al Harris got torched argument..

    I know it is 100% true and if he played better they MIGHT have won...However...

    Normally the ones that use that Harris argument when discussing the Giants game, are going to be the ones to say this.
    Such a double standard it is not even funny..

    It is a team game and EVERYONE is responsible for they own part, some more than others but all have a role..
     
  4. CM_Awesome

    CM_Awesome Cheesehead

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    Yeah, I have mixed feelings about that. I'd rather take a sack over an interception anyday, but I get so frustrated whenever Rodgers gets sacked. He is on pace for the NFL record in times sacked.
     
  5. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Agreed, but not being "rattled" by the possibility of turning the ball over, and "hoping" or "trusting" his receivers to make the play can win you games as well ...

    Playing it "safe" and "just" taking the sack, will not, however it will help your stats ...

    It's a matter of "pick your poison" really, as neither is what anyone would want heh, but in the end ... regardless of the interceptions ... that mentality did also "help" win alot of close games ... - And is a huge part of why watching #4 play is so interesting and (mostly) "thrilling" as well and why so many fans - across the spectrum - still enjoy watching him play I think ... And I seriously doubt Favre EVER even considered not wanting to take the sack, but rather "saw" (and hoped) for the possibility of the chance of his recievers being able to make the play was more the reason why he some times "heaved" it up there instead of taking the sack ...

    Because any fan who has seen #4 play for this long also knows that he actually doesn't mind that much being hit ... - it's part of the game ... and also what makes it fun for him ... (#4 smiling after being sacked and or hit hard, should tell anyone that ...)

    I've said it before ... when the quarterback ratings start to incorporate fumbles and sacks also ... ALOT of ratings will get turned upside down ... And that makes me wonder *how* fans will look at those same ratings then ...

    @ Longtimefan:

    Exactly my point ... Granted some players that doesn't play "up to paar" has a "larger" "role" when it goes bad, however ... There have been alot of times where those exact same throws resulted in wins as well ... And most were saying "That's Favre doing his magic" ...

    Like most (risky plays, regardless of position), if they suceed they are great, if they don't it's because the player in question is "bad" etc etc ...

    But the huge difference is ... Those players that are "willing" to put it in there (read: risking) are the players that make this game so much fun to watch ... If everyone were playing "it safe" ... I doubt these games would be interesting to watch ...

    Whether it be blocking or pass rushing or throwing balls to the receivers/te's ... Decisions has to be made in split seconds mostly ... and some players just "brood" more over "not making mistakes" more than they perhaps should ...
     
  6. jrpack

    jrpack Cheesehead

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    That's why it would be interesting to have the stats on which plays the sacks were taken. I guess you'd have to go back and analyze each one, but on third down plays, unless it's putting you out of field goal range, you're better off with the sack than a wild throw to no one. And holding the ball in that case, looking for a play til the last second is not a bad thing. But that would be too much work for me to look up LOL.
     
  7. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Rodgers held the ball too long last game 2 times. Both times, he looked at a receiver that was supposed to run a short route (James Jones and Lee), and they ran the wrong route. Explained by Joe Theissman at NFL Playbook.
     
  8. jrpack

    jrpack Cheesehead

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    Hopefully he,ll get more savy with more experience. Some of those "big boys" weren't that great their first year or two, right? When he said he wouldn't change his style of playing, I had to laugh when the press jumped on that as if he meant he wouldn't try to improve.
     
  9. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    Have you ever heard of adrian Peterson some say he got some skillz. Favre was 13-3 the last year as a packer and its all on him? Surely you can't be this ignorant. There you go packer backers he is all yours are you not proud to have him? Repeats the same thing over and over and over, at least freshen it up alittle I beg of you. We get it,you are saying favre will run this team into the ground and throw all kinds of Int's. Believe me we are all on board with what your saying. Oh yeah we know the vikings are moving to LA too so us vikings fans are already planning a going away party for them so thanks for the heads up on that but really I heard you the first 8 times you told me.
     
  10. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Just some "fun" starter stats, from Here:

    Passing: (first season as starter - Favre started 13 Games in 1992)

    1992 (8-5) Favre: 302/471 (64,1%) 18 TD 13 Int - 85,3 Rating
    2008 (6-10) Rodgers: 341/536 (63,6%) 28 TD 13 Int - 93,8 Rating

    1993 (9-7) Favre: 318/522 (60,9%) 19 TD 24 Int - 72,2 Rating


    Sacked:

    1992 Favre: 34 times
    2008 Rodgers: 34 times

    1993 Favre: 30 times
    2009 Rodgers: 25 (and still counting)


    Now what does these (individual) stats say ? - Nothing much, as it's rather difficult to compare 2 players with more than 15 years apart really ..., also take into account how the game has changed during those 15+ years - into a more "passing friendly" game actually ... You will see the quarterbacks from all teams having increased amount of TDs across the boards actually ...

    Because it can be argued that coming off a 13-3 season, the Packers were infact (still) a good team and a "contender" ... - Yet anyone of us can pull out stats that would support our (individual) claims ...

    However, one way to look at these numbers could be that because Rodgers ratings are better, then he is by "default" a better quarterback ... - And Vice versa; the "record" shows 6-10 ...

    Alot of factors goes in here, but my point is ... you can always "manipulate" the stats so they "show" something that proves your point ...

    Ex. Favre was sacked 30 Times while in NY (2008) ... right now if the "statistics" will increase "proportionately" he will be sacked way more in Minnesota ... But how many honestly believe that the Jets O-Line in 2008 was better than this Years (2009) O-Line in Minnesota ?

    Another look at the above stats could also be about "impact-player" or not ...

    Bottomline being that stats are always in the "Eye of the Beholder" ... and what really matters in this days NFL (business) are the wins and loses come the end of the season and whether or not the teams make the play-offs or not ...

    The Giants winning the Super Bowl in 2007 were far from "perfect" and dominant ...

    Neither were the Steelers that won the Super Bowl in 2008 ...

    Do I think the Packers will advance this year ? - Yes they *could*, however I don't think it's very likely, given the competition in this years NFC North ...
     
  11. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    Good imformitive post, results is how a QB is judged. Wins and losses for which Brett still knows how to win and if you don't see that and can admit that you are being a cheerleader. Rodgers is 9-12 as a starter for which brett was 12-8 his first year +. so keep talking bad about a guy that was your hero for all those years. The guy did alot for the city of green bay and sconny
     
  12. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Who is saying he didnt?

    Troll troll troll your post gently down the web
     
  13. jrpack

    jrpack Cheesehead

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    And the Pack did absolutely nothing in return. Oh, I forgot, except made him a multimillionaire.
     
  14. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    Who said they didn't? The man still wanted to play, I would think that would be up to him if he still plays. Minnesota has a boatload of talent and maybe he wants a shot to go out on top. Elway won a SB at 38 so he might be able to do it. Minnesota is not playing well enough but brett had no idea how good they would be or not be when he became a Viking. Maybe he wanted to stick it teds ear. I have no idea.
     
  15. jrpack

    jrpack Cheesehead

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    Quientus, thanks for the stats, they're always interesting. I know what you mean about the modern day QB's. They wrap them in cotton wool now. For instance Danny Marino's 5000+ means a heck of a lot more than Drew Brees.
     
  16. jrpack

    jrpack Cheesehead

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    Who said it wasn't up to him? And are you kidding that he didn't know how good a team Minny had? The world knew it. As for his reasons, I think it's a little bit of both.
     
  17. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Speaking of which ... One way that Rodgers will avoid being ("penalized") for being sacked is if he changes his name to "Tom Brady" ...

    That way the ref's will always toss the (yellow) flag when he is hit !

    - Sorry, but I couldn't help resist putting this in here for "laughs and giggles" ...
     
  18. jrpack

    jrpack Cheesehead

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    Gotta admit that was funny, and this is for Skol, remember the "late hit" they called on SF when the ball was still in Brett's hand? At the beginning of the season the Viking players even made jokes that it was nice to be on the receiving end of all the good breaks, instead of the other way around playing GB.
     
  19. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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    I have to wonder what tune they'd be singing in Minnesota about FAvre is Dre Bly had held on to that int. and ran it back for the clinching td. Final 49ers 31 Vikings 20. Or if Baltimore's kicker had made that field goal at the end last Sunday. Final Ravens 34 Vikings 33. Or if the Packers hadn't turned the ball over twice in MInnesota territory and Donald Lee hadn't dropped a td pass in the end zone. Final Packers 36 Vikings 30.
     
  20. jrpack

    jrpack Cheesehead

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    It doesn't take much to make most fan base turn on someone, look at the way they jumped on Jay Cutler his first couple interceptions. Actually it was pretty amazing that Brett could do anything he wanted in GB and all was forgiven (until now) and this will all be forgiven as time passes.
     
  21. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    Would have ...
    Could have ...
    Should have ...

    What if ... the Packers management had drafted an offensive line man instead of Aaron Rodgers ?

    What if ... the Packers defense (secondary) had played better in the NFC Championship game in 2007 ?

    What if ... the Packers had won the Super Bowl that year ?

    What if ... the Packers had taken back Favre instead of trading him to the Jets ?

    What if Favre had NOT been injured and the offensive line in NY had "held up" during the last part of the season and the Jets had actually made the play offs ?

    What if the Vikings hadn't gone to "prevent" defense against the Packers but instead had been running up the score (something I remember reading on these boards that some fans here thought was "distastefull" ... - running up the score means trying to get more points when it is NOT needed ...) ?

    What if Adrian Peterson had not been stripped on that play and instead had gained a first down ?

    What if the Vikings actually beat the Steelers on Sunday ?

    What if the Saints had lost to the Giants in a blow out ?

    What if the Bears had won against the Packers ?

    What if Aaron Rodgers didn't hold on to the ball that long and actually used his check-downs more often ?

    What if the Board of Directors fire Ted Thomson ?

    What if Ted Thomson fires McCarthy ?


    What's my point ? My point being ... "What if's" are kinda like "stats" ... because you can twist and slice'n'dice it which ever way suits you ...

    See where this is going ?
     
  22. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    That would be a break my heart for the pack to be left out in the cold again this year, So Rodgers could start in his 6 th season without a playoff game. I have heard they are getting ready to make his bust for canton with his unbeliavable winning %
     
  23. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    yeah we will make sure we put an * after the results of that game but i think you were the only one drunk enough to think that Brett favre wouldn't thrown the ball in the 4th qtr if needed i realize in the first 3 qtrs he was only throwing at 81% comp. so I am sure your defense had that fixed.
     
  24. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

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    Vikings' wins the past 2 seasons, like objects in the mirror, have been a lot closer than they appear. That's my point. So let's not go proclaiming them something until they actually win a Super Bowl for the first time in their almost half century of existence.

    Though if they do manage it this year, with the aid of a couple of old Packers, it could be of some comfort to you a couple of years from now when you start the "woulda, coulda, shoulda" about coughing up the $700 mill. for the New Jersey billionaire before he took his franchise to the West Coast.
     
  25. Skol guy

    Skol guy Cheesehead

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    Thats all you got, and if your wrong what then? can't beat us on the field or in the standings so that your whole spill? They will be here so don't worry well be right here kicking your backside for years to come
     

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