1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

Do YOU owe Dom an apology too?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, Jan 10, 2014.

  1. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,871
    Ratings:
    +1,400
    I get that. Its just a little annoying and unoriginal to hear that exact same thing 2 straight years at the same time.
     
  2. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,323
    Ratings:
    +519
    1 good game in the playoffs by the defense out of 3 does not exonerate Capers.
     
  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,676
    Ratings:
    +2,977
    Just like hearing MM is predictable, or fire dom :)
     
  4. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,889
    Ratings:
    +1,679
    Bernard Pollard has that.
    And he happens to be A) a free agent, B) affordable, C) a safety, which we need
     
  5. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,139
    Ratings:
    +402
    What about the Super Bowl winning defense? Does that fall off the analysis?
     
  6. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,139
    Ratings:
    +402
    Not sure that the 2-4 is meant to keep an extra linebacker on the field when neither Hawk nor Jones is very good in coverage or rushing the passer but I get the idea of more linebackers allowing the defense to be a bit more unpredictable.

    As for Daniels playing Jones onto the bench, I don't think that was ever a question. Daniels ended last year very strong and was great all year this year. If anything I think Jones' injury in training camp kept him from pushing Raji out of the starting lineup. As for lighter and faster, his frame isn't one that's going to let him lose much weight. Would be much easier for him and the team if he added some weight and came in next year at about 300lbs; he was about 285 as a rookie and now he has a pro training regimen behind him. I thin Perry actually has the skill and athletic ability to be a good OLB but his injuries have kept him from showing it. Foot injuries do not tend to allow one to show off their agility very well, especially when you weigh 260+lbs.

    I do agree that we've lost some players that haven't been replaced. Not sure I can really blame the front office for letting Woodson walk, the guy was aging and Heyward looked ready to take on that role for the team. Collins loss was a major blow, one that TT still hasn't recovered from. Jenkins, well that loss has been beaten to death. Remember too that prior to his injuries, Desmond Bishop looked to be an outstanding ILB and Tramon Williams has said that his shoulder will never be the same after that nerve damage a few years ago.
     
  7. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    1,323
    Ratings:
    +519
    Which was how many years ago? And tell me, how has the defense been since then?
     
  8. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,139
    Ratings:
    +402
    Four years ago. Just curious why the stat is 1 out of 3 good playoff games and not 4 ouf of 7 (or however many good playoff games there were when we won the Super Bowl).
     
  9. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,889
    Ratings:
    +1,679
    The schedule was in their favor.
    No Brees, Warner, Manning, Brady.
    They got to face Vick, Ryan (before Julio Jones, and maybe Gonzalez?), Cutler, and Roethlisberger.
    Some okay QBs but no prolific offenses like old Warner the year before which torched them.

    A little bit of luck, but remember, that team had the veterans Woodson and Collins and even Peprah. For his limitations with speed, Peprah was smart. That matters.

    And Bishop was a missing piece in the middle, and Cullen Jenkins, Raji, Pickett, and Matthews were all healthy.
     
  10. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2013
    Messages:
    1,755
    Ratings:
    +1,019
    Gonzalez was there just to answer that for you.
     
  11. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,105
    Ratings:
    +394
    ok....sorry dom.
     
  12. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,139
    Ratings:
    +402
    The Eagles were third in the NFL in scoring in 2010 and second in yards. That was one of the elite offenses in the NFL that year. The Falcons were fifth in points in 2010. That's two of the top-5 scoring offenses in the NFL that our defense faced and we held them to well below their season averages. The Bears were actually the only below-average offense we faced during that Super Bowl run. You can't just focus on the QB, teams have other players too.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  13. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,871
    Ratings:
    +1,400
    So Raji "emerged" when Rodgers returned because Forte "only" ran for 110 yards and 5.0 YPC vs. 5.9 YPC and 119 yards by Bush, or 7.6 YPC by Murray?

    Yikes. I guess you can paint anyone in that light if you set the bar low enough. And you can't just count Gore on the rushing stats for the 49er game, because there was a lot more to it.

    Raji made a total of 4 tackles in these 2 games. Are we really going to call that "emerging" just because he brought himself from a whopping 1 tackle per game up to 2? I wouldn't call that emerging. I would call that playing slightly less awful.
     
  14. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,889
    Ratings:
    +1,679
    Michael Vick was a fraud though, as he proved that game and the next season.....
    That Falcon game was awesome, but it was one guy, Tramon Williams, with his 2 huge interceptions.
    And then of course Rodgers became Godgers that game, was sensational.

    Again, the defense held tough that 4-game run as they still had Jenkins, Woodson, Collins, and Bishop. Those were 4 CRUCIAL guys we no longer have. Things change fast. We downgraded all 4 areas to this year. Collins and Bishop no fault of anyones. Woodson father time. Jenkins a bad decision initially, although Mike Daniels is close now, and younger. Worthy should have been that guy too, but that's a *bust pick.

    * I know it isn't yet. And I know he tore an ACL, but that was week 17 his rookie year and he was a huge disappointment for 16 weeks prior to that.
     
  15. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,871
    Ratings:
    +1,400
    Mike Daniels = Cullen Jenkins going forward IMO.

    I do think Hayward could be that playmaker in the slot yet, we'll see. It sucks that he lost basically this entire season for a bad hammy.

    The last two are the ones we are really missing. We need a stud safety and we need a hitting ILB that can play in space. We can try to address one in the first round but the other may need to be addressed in free agency.

    Quality is more important than quantity for us for this D right now, so if a potential gem falls into the teens on draft day and Thompson sees a chance to move up, he shouldn't hesitate.
     
  16. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,871
    Ratings:
    +1,400
    I have to ask, who gets blamed for the fact that multiple players on the defense vastly underperformed expectations this year? Raji, Pickett, Perry, Datone Jones, Brad Jones, Tramon Williams (til the last month), Morgan Burnett, Jennings and McMillian, etc.

    I am sure that every position coach on defense would have looked you in the eye before the season and said that these are very talented players. So -- what is the deal? Are you not able to make the most out of the talent you're given, or did you overestimate the actual talent almost across the board?

    Mike Daniels may be the one player on defense that exceeded expectations, and I would say that Shields, Hawk, and Neal met expectations. Maybe I should include Brad Jones in that. He isn't anything special, but we all knew that going into the season. I'm not quite sure what we were thinking there.
     
  17. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    818
    Ratings:
    +337
    Well.... YES! The point is that Raji completely quit when Rodgers was unavailable and then began playing better. This isn't just me, a number of other analysts noted this as well. Did he produce big stats during those two games... not exactly. Did he start holding his gap, even against double teams? Yes.

    As HRE pointed out during our losing streak Raji was getting flat out beat by singe blockers, during the Bears and 49ers games he was actually starting to beat his man and even holding his gap against double teams. He played well against a pro bowl guard against San Francisco.

    You don't like him, I don't like him as a player either right now. The point is that his effort level has had a direct impact on the play of the Defense and the way we view Dom Capers.
     
  18. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,105
    Ratings:
    +394
    I love BJ Raji. My fav player on that defense. ...but he sucked this year and there's no two ways around that.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,984
    Ratings:
    +1,009
    Dear Dom, i apologize for making fun of your hairpiece. It had it's highs and lows this year but it works for you so who am i to judge?

    The End
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  20. net

    net Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2005
    Messages:
    944
    Ratings:
    +62
    So I guess we are supposed to believe the players sucked for many years...! In the end , the "proof is in the pudding", and the question then becomes, why are the players making these mistakes so often? Why are they still around if they suck?
    What we have here is something very close to the Mike Sherman-Brett Favre years. The offense could, and needed to, score at will because the defense flopped so many times it pulled everything down. So the answer(to some) is the status quo: sorry, I don't buy it. I don't care if Capers walks on water, if he wants to keep his job next year put the defense in the top 50 percent of the league or resign. I'm far from the "fire everybody" crowd that infests most websites. But the defense has been bad for so long, how long do you tolerate it without a new approach? How about a four man line and 7 people behind them with a basis on speed and fundamentals....LIKE TACKLING! Tackling is taught and practiced by the coaching staff. The tackling has been shameful. This team has the same amount of practice time as the 49'ers, the Panthers, etc. who tackle very well. One more year, apparently. One year of excuses, probably.
     
  21. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    818
    Ratings:
    +337
    I would agree and disagree. There were times this season where he was just awful. However there were other times when he was very physical stacking up the inside run. This has been the knock on him since College. That he's a physical freak but has an inconsistent motor. Raji was playing the run very well up until the beginning of November. During the time of Rodgers absence he quit on the team, before making a cameo appearance against Chicago and then playing a pretty good game against San Francisco. That's been the take of a number of Sports analysts, Bob McGinn who I don't even like rated Raji as a C- and noted that his motor ran hot and cold. McGinn also praised his play against San Francisco, among other Sports writers.

    The problem is that some fans on here genuinely struggle with Grey area. A player is either good or he sucks, if a player has a down year then surely he must have sucked the whole season.
     
  22. Sunshinepacker

    Sunshinepacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2013
    Messages:
    1,139
    Ratings:
    +402
    Raji was bad. There's no disputing that fact. Last year he was actually pretty decent but this season? You don't draft a guy ninth overall to be a solid run defender. Mike Daniels performance in the exact same defense has proven that the whole ""just hold a gap" excuse is a fraud. Also, Raji didn't do well holding his own gap most of the time, most of the time I saw one guard blocking him, he wasn't being doubled that often.
     
  23. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,984
    Ratings:
    +1,009
    Maybe Raji just doesn't wanna be in Green Bay anymore. I'm making excuses for the guy because he showed so much promise to now be just a body on the d-line. Maybe he got his feelings hurt that TT didn't think he was worth more than 8 mil a year? Allegedly. Either way he didn't do anything to prove he should be getting Wilfork/Ngata money. Mike Daniels did enough to make me forget about Raji.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2014
    Messages:
    1,105
    Ratings:
    +394
    I watched him all year and I was honestly shocked how bad he was. I read a stat where he went something
    No grey area here. He was brutal. Somebody can look it up... but I saw a stat last week about the number of snaps Raji took without a sack and it is staggering. I mean....for God's sake...a guy even sniffing the QB once in a while will fall into a sack once in a while!!!!!
     
  25. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    818
    Ratings:
    +337
    You have a right to your opinion, even if it is in error. I have to agree with the Sports writers here. JSO WSJ and GBG writers all gave Raji high marks right up until Rodgers went down and Raji's play dropped off a cliff.
     

Share This Page