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Do YOU owe Dom an apology too?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by FrankRizzo, Jan 10, 2014.

  1. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    http://packersinsider.com/?p=6241

    (Funny I see a thread similarly titled but Mike Neal and not Dom. And another an apology to Ted Thompson thread on Feb 9, 2011. I guess that was right after the Super Bowl.)
     
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  2. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    Those pics documenting the entire play are great. Bush really did **** that entire play up. He has a history of huge mental errors that cost the Pack playoff games. I remember a certain scoop and run attempt instead of falling on the ball years ago.

    Capers did have a pretty good game plan last week. I wish he brought that kind of plan every week instead of the no pass rush bend and break passive zone coverage we saw a good part of the year.
     
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  3. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    Bush's mistake was way too obviously on him to blame Capers for it.
     
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  4. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    Quite possibly the biggest mistake was MM dressing some garbage backup special teamer like Stoneburner and keeping Nate Palmer inactive. Mulumba would have caught Kaep and strung him out of bounds had he been able to run. With Clay out and Neal banged up and even Perry still nursing a bad foot it seems awfully short sighted to make Palmer inactive. Total hindsight.....if Mulumba and Neal are fine then it doesn't matter but they ended up getting hurt so it makes for an interesting point.
     
  5. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    No because I have been mentioning on here time and time and time again to blame the players and not Capers.
    Of course no one will pay any attention at all to me because some members have such a hard on for blaming one guy and only one guy and that guy is: (Drum roll) Dom Capers!
    You are the next Packers coach to get all the blame by Packers nation even when it isn't your fault!
    Yessir! Congratulations on being the Packers Scapegoat of the year!
     
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  6. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    The Bush play---Kap pump faked and that made Bush jump up, and that is when Kap took off..

    Bush doesnt get faked he stays home and Kap never runs

    Big Unit on WSSP 1250 Milwaukee made a statement today about why a lot of blame goes to the players..

    He claims that on 3 occasions vs Dallas, Dom sent an all out blitz with about 6 or 7 guys..Every time they blitzed not one player shed their block and got free.

    He also stated that the def playbook is the biggest in the NFL

    As Frank has said at some point you have to blame the players..I have been beating that drum as well, as we dont know exactly what the players are suppose to be doing...

    So it comes back to, were these players just not smart enough? Latimore couldnt understand the calls, and that is why he wasnt starting over Jones..

    Tramon is telling reporters that the young guys just cant get the scheme..

    So did Dom ever dumb down the playbook? Or stuck with it?
     
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  7. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    I was listening and caught all of that......along with the praise by the d-line coach for Raji which about choked after hearing. The 2 points that stood out to me.

    1. Tramon saying the young players dont get the scheme and it took him years to master
    2. The largest playbook in the league.

    This is not regarded as the best defense in the league to my knowledge so why does it require the largest playbook and why can't half these guys figure it out? San Fran/Baltimore/Seattle....all pretty good defenses. Why does this playbook need to be harder and bigger than theirs?

    Months ago I tried to make a stretch of a comparison. I compared Dom to the greatest architect in the world who has drawn the plans to a magnificent building. The problem is the carpenters and workers simply can not build it.

    This offense is going to put up a ton of points most weeks. Why must they have this elaborate dream defense when an average defense would suffice. Why must the architect design the most elaborate building when his workers can't build it and when the average one his workers probably could build would be sufficient.



    I'm not saying I am right or anything.....I just like to explore theories on why things are not working like they should.
     
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  8. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    Is it just me, or does memorizing plays and what to do not seem that difficult? This is their job. They spend hours every day on these.

    If it's a larger playbook, then take more time. The defense was overall young in 2010 too. I'm not buying youth as an excuse. It could be guys are not taking enough time and that could be on coaching. I don't know. I just know if I was in the NFL, I'd make sure I knew what to do before stepping on the field.

    Give me one offseason, and I'll know all the plays no problem. I'll never make a tackle unless a guy trips over me nor shed a block, but at least I'll be in the right spot.
     
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  9. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    I also think to be a good NFL player, a player has to do more than just go to required films and practices. When the players go home for the day, the coach has nothing to do with what they will do with the rest of the day.

    Could it be that some of these guys aren't putting extra time in to get better? From experiences at lower level athletics, coaches can preach about extra time again and again, but unless teammates set an example and get the ball rolling, it doesn't happen. Putting in extra time is contagious, but so is doing nothing extra. And if it doesn't happen, there isn't tons of success. The best put in more time. Doesn't have to be a veteran. Anyone can put in extra time.

    This is all speculation of course and my experiences could in no way apply to the NFL as well.
     
  10. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    Sounds like someone needs to step up and invite the boys down to his place to have a defensive camp. Brandon Marshall is getting Cutler, forte and Alshon and some others together to work on stuff. I have heard of other teams doing this. Tramon is the one calling the younger players out and he has the means to host the guys for a while to pull this off. Get on it Tramon.
     
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  11. NOMOFO

    NOMOFO Cheesehead

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    no, its just you. it is very hard.
     
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  12. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Dom has said (I think) he needs 2 or 3 real good players with his defense..

    2010----Clay...Collins...Woody..Jenkins..Thats 4..

    3 players not there this year, and one missed way to much time
     
  13. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    2010 is never coming back. Those 3 players are forever gone. They can no longer be excuses for Dom. 2 of them have been gone for a LONG time too.
     
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  14. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I thought of that as well...But I think it applies mostly to the q/b and offensive weapons?

    Maybe get Rodgers, Jordy, Cobb and Lacy then get Tramon and a few other guys from the defense to do 5 on 5 or 7 on 7 in the off season since the new CBA doesnt allow all the extra practices
     
  15. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I was making a point to Carl, as he was stating that 2010 had young players..

    Pointed out our def had very good players on def and not young players
     
  16. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    I gotcha now. I am just so used to hearing those names brought up in other discussions yet they are ancient history. Teams are going to lose good players and you have to replace them.
     
  17. Forderick

    Forderick Cheesehead

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    If the Defence is super hard to learn, or has a huge playbook, why are the packers still doing the same stuff when it clearly isn't working the last 3 seasons.

    If its too hard to learn make it easier or get smarter players. If the players don't put in enough time learning it, cut them. When it is all said and done, it is Dom's job the make the defence work, and so far the last 3 seasons he has failed to do his job. Maybe it is lack of talent, maybe not. Something needs to change, they can't keep doing the same things expecting a different result.

    Even a broken clock is right twice a day. I don't owe Dom an apology.
     
  18. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Talent wasn't on the field. I'd feel different if they were under performing but a lot of times they out performed the talent they had
     
  19. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    I was just saying that a defense can be good and young at the same time. I don't think just youth itself is an reason for not doing well. Just getting more experience on this defense will not help without more talent.
     
  20. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    Not as simple as that. If a player is really talented and has a high ceiling, but takes some time to start working, they may keep him. Or do you replace him with the hard worker without much potential? In a few years the first player could be a lot better.

    Work ethic can change, but talent cannot. A perfect is example is Jarrett Bush, who according to articles, puts in more time after practice than anybody. Talent can't be learned though.

    Coaches and GM's have to do their best to determine who may be better in a few seasons, and not judge only on who is the best now.
     
  21. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    I'm going to agree with you. With all this speculating myself and others have done on possible other issues, there is no speculating that we don't have enough talent right now on defense.

    Comparing our good defenses a few years back and other top defenses now, there is certainly a talent gap from the current Packers defense.
     
  22. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I don't see anything in the OP except a link but no I don't owe Capers an apology.
     
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  23. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I don't think you watched the film breakdown.
    NOBODY from a coaching standpoint can MAKE it work if one or two players for some reason, screw up on the play.
    That film shows this in "pictures", which are easier for some people to comprehend, than reading is.

    Did you like the play where Perry sacked Kaepernick and made them punt? Great coach right?
     
  24. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    So players can`t practice more if they Want to ?? :eek:
     
  25. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Having just read the CBA I can answer my own question but......was this put forward by the owners, or the players union ?.
    It seems a bit wierd if they WANTED to do it. IMHO
     

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