Defensive Coordinator Candidates

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Dantés

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Curious as to why you're high on him

I’m not super high. I see the pros and cons. I’m interested. Of the guys that were listed as candidates, he was 3rd on my list behind Leonhard and Evero.

But when Snoops said he’s done if they hire Barry, he launched to the top of my list.
 

C-Lee

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I’m not super high. I see the pros and cons. I’m interested. Of the guys that were listed as candidates, he was 3rd on my list behind Leonhard and Evero.

But when Snoops said he’s done if they hire Barry, he launched to the top of my list.
I can't get excited at all looking at his previous DC tenure.
 

Snoops

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He does and he doesn’t. Depends on what you decide to look at.
The most obvious is just success initially and it ain’t good. But I also take into consideration that the lions and Washington didn’t have any good players on defense
 

Dantés

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I can't get excited at all looking at his previous DC tenure.

He was mediocre in Washington with a bad roster. He’s also been a good position coach under Wade Phillips and Brandon Staley.

Staley has chosen to bring him to the Chargers as a coordinator, not Evero.

I think a lot of people are going to discount him because of that stint with the Redskins and I think that is reductive.
 

Favre>Rodgers259

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Let's talk about the man:

First off, Joe Barry does not "ooze leadership".

The last time he ran a defense he ran a played out version of Cover 3, not even the same Cover 3 that Kris Richard ran that made him famous, it's THAT ancient. We have no idea if he's going to run a Staley variant or something else?

We could also make the same argument that folks made against Evero, Barry didn't get promoted to Rams DC, and when Staley brought him over to the Chargers he didn't make him DC either, which is more damning?

Both McVay and Staley know Barry's only value is as a LB Coach.
 

LambeauLombardi

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As a very biased Packer fan and as someone who hates the Badgers.... what a dumb move by Jim Leonard
 

Dantés

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Let's talk about the man:

First off, Joe Barry does not "ooze leadership".

The last time he ran a defense he ran a played out version of Cover 3, not even the same Cover 3 that Kris Richard ran that made him famous, it's THAT ancient. We have no idea if he's going to run a Staley variant or something else?

We could also make the same argument that folks made against Evero, Barry didn't get promoted to Rams DC, and when Staley brought him over to the Chargers he didn't make him DC either, which is more damning?

Both McVay and Staley know Barry's only value is as a LB Coach.

Now we’re going to psychoanalyze him. Should be good.

Your last statement is totally false.

If Barry isn’t the guy for the Packers, he’s going to be Staley’s pass game coordinator with the Chargers. He already has that job.

McVay also hired him to be the Assistant Head Coach in addition to linebackers.
 

Favre>Rodgers259

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But Assistant Head Coach is like Vice President of the United States, the prestige in the title falls woefully short of the actual prescribed duties. Who honestly is checking for Joe Barry to be a HC in the NFL in the next 2 years?

Passing Game Coordinator is not the same as Defensive Coordinator. He basically got a consolation prize for being marginal.

I value these passing/running game coordinators with the same value as an "analyst". Basically, "shut up junior and watch and learn, if you have a good idea give it to me so I can promote it to the head honchos as my own and you might get a little credit too".
 

Dantés

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But Assistant Head Coach is like Vice President of the United States, the prestige in the title falls woefully short of the actual prescribed duties. Who honestly is checking for Joe Barry to be a HC in the NFL in the next 2 years?

Passing Game Coordinator is not the same as Defensive Coordinator. He basically got a consolation prize for being marginal.

I value these passing/running game coordinators with the same value as an "analyst". Basically, "shut up junior and watch and learn, if you have a good idea give it to me so I can promote it to the head honchos as my own and you might get a little credit too".

Spin it however you want. What you said was wrong. If you’re going to invent reasons not to like him, just say that.
 

Half Empty

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As a very biased Packer fan and as someone who hates the Badgers.... what a dumb move by Jim Leonard

Just wondering why the Badger hate. I realize they start almost every year with a great outlook and then blow it, but that applies to the other major football team from Wisconsin (the pro one), too. :)
 

Favre>Rodgers259

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Spin it however you want. What you said was wrong. If you’re going to invent reasons not to like him, just say that.

Spin it HOW? Nobody's interested in Barry as a DC other than the Packers, and it's because he and MLF are buddies. I hope he's prepared to make him a puppet, and call the offense and the defense himself.
 

Dantés

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Spin it HOW? Nobody's interested in Barry as a DC other than the Packers, and it's because he and MLF are buddies. I hope he's prepared to make him a puppet, and call the offense and the defense himself.

Spin it how?

By describing AHC and PDC in the most unflattering way possible.

I thought that was obvious.
 

Favre>Rodgers259

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The value of AHC is hard to quantify because it varies across the NFL. To say that AHCs deserve or are even ready to be HCs would be a gross misstep. Some may have been HCs in the past, or Coordinators even but that doesn't firmly establish their coaching acumen.

We don't know what Barry did for the Rams other than coach LBs. McVay could have just dumped all the duties he didn't want to do as a HC on Barry and just say drop the AHC title on him for his trouble. Or maybe Barry ran the whole team and McVay just woke up everyday and picked which part of the team he wanted/felt he needed to coach that day. You "spin" that however you want to.

But how many other teams had Joe Barry on their radar as a HC? Zero.

How many were looking at Barry as a potential DC? One - Neither Sean McVay or Brandon Staley let Barry even interview for DC.

WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU????
 

Dantés

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I'll just be clear here too, I would rather they hire Evero. From the outside, it appears he's done a better job with his position group, and he's worked directly for Fangio.

But writing off Barry because his defenses in Washington five years ago were mediocre does not make sense. Consider it, absolutely. Consider it a mark against him. But "he wasn't great in Washington >>> he can't be good" is stupid.

And I'll just say this about Barry's time in Washington:

Two years prior to his arrival (2013, 2014): 29 ppg and 27 ppg respectively

His two years there (2015, 2016): 24 ppg twice

So context matters.
 

pacmaniac

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It was supposedly down to Leonhard and Evero yesterday. Now Barry is the favorite? Hopefully they aren't cheaping out again.
 

Dantés

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The value of AHC is hard to quantify because it varies across the NFL. To say that AHCs deserve or are even ready to be HCs would be a gross misstep. Some may have been HCs in the past, or Coordinators even but that doesn't firmly establish their coaching acumen.

We don't know what Barry did for the Rams other than coach LBs. McVay could have just dumped all the duties he didn't want to do as a HC on Barry and just say drop the AHC title on him for his trouble. Or maybe Barry ran the whole team and McVay just woke up everyday and picked which part of the team he wanted/felt he needed to coach that day. You "spin" that however you want to.

But how many other teams had Joe Barry on their radar as a HC? Zero.

How many were looking at Barry as a potential DC? One - Neither Sean McVay or Brandon Staley let Barry even interview for DC.

WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU????

The whole thing is just funny to me.

You: Both McVay and Staley know that Barry's nothing more than a LB Coach

Me: No, actually both of them have hired him for roles beyond that.

You: Well those roles are stupid!

And that's in addition to you watching him online and judging that he's not a leader. Why not just come out and say that you don't want to like him?
 

pacmaniac

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I did not know MLF has a Twitter account until just now. I see some Packers fans are sending him their thoughts on Joe Barry. :laugh:
 

Dantés

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I did not know MLF has a Twitter account until just now. I see some Packers fans are sending him their thoughts on Joe Barry. :laugh:

It must be super annoying to be highly accomplished in your field and have a bunch of ignorant morons telling you what you should do on the internet.
 

Favre>Rodgers259

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I'll just be clear here too, I would rather they hire Evero. From the outside, it appears he's done a better job with his position group, and he's worked directly for Fangio.

But writing off Barry because his defenses in Washington five years ago were mediocre does not make sense. Consider it, absolutely. Consider it a mark against him. But "he wasn't great in Washington >>> he can't be good" is stupid.

And I'll just say this about Barry's time in Washington:

Two years prior to his arrival (2013, 2014): 29 ppg and 27 ppg respectively

His two years there (2015, 2016): 24 ppg twice

So context matters.

Preston Smith, Sua Cravens, Kendall Fuller, and Josh Norman could all be worth a drop of about 5ppg allowed with an abysmal DC.

Yep, context definitely matters.

The whole thing is just funny to me.

You: Both McVay and Staley know that Barry's nothing more than a LB Coach

Me: No, actually both of them have hired him for roles beyond that.

You: Well those roles are stupid!

And that's in addition to you watching him online and judging that he's not a leader. Why not just come out and say that you don't want to like him?

I understand what those roles are, but I don't value them in the slightest(or at least as much as you do), keep in mind that with the exception of AHC, these "junior coordinator" positions just recently started popping up around the league in the last 5 years. Back in the day, you were just an analyst. It gives off the appearance of granting more responsibility without taking any actual accountability.

I did not know MLF has a Twitter account until just now. I see some Packers fans are sending him their thoughts on Joe Barry. :laugh:

I'm on my way.
 
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