Defending Janis

[Sky King]

I take the over against both of you, although Captain's numbers and mine are fairly close. One is tied:

Receptions: 25
Receiving yards: 425
TDs: 5

Had you both agreed upon the numbers above I would have had to flip a coin in each category. But, hey, that's what the sportsbooks here in Las Vegas try to do.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I take the over against both of you, although Captain's numbers and mine are fairly close. One is tied:

Receptions: 25
Receiving yards: 425
TDs: 5

This makes me believe that you agree that Janis will most likely be a rotational player only in 2016. These numbers would be extremely disappointing for a starting receiver.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I predict there will be an outcry to see Janis replace Adams the first time the latter drops a 2016 ball. That has already been widely floated in these pages before the first OTA. I predict such a move would be a sorry mistake.

 

[Sky King]

This makes me believe that you agree that Janis will most likely be a rotational player only in 2016. These numbers would be extremely disappointing for a starting receiver.

At the very least I see him as a rotational player unless he gets some type of long-term injury. Now that he's shown that he can use his height and strength to his advantage, it would not surprise me in the least to see him included in some packages that would overload certain defenses with something that exploits their vulnerability against, say, height and speed as one example I wouldn't want to the be DC that has shorter and/or slower DBs to work with, then see a package come on the field that has some combination of Jordy, Janis, Davis and Cook lined-up as receivers and Cobb or Montgomery coming out of the backfield. That's a lot of poison to swallow.

I'm not as pessimistic as some that he could never become a starter or first off the bench type of a player. We just don't know yet, but we've seen some flashy returns on a mere 7th round investment. I once felt the same way about Driver and he turned out okay, and then some. And that did not happen overnight. Janis has the basic physical skills to at least have a shot at a high ceiling as a WR, that's for sure.

He's already a terrific gunner, and you can't help but notice that he defeats double-teams routinely with his strength and then often just blows past the guys trying to block him. Impressive.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

At the very least I see him as a rotational player unless he gets some type of long-term injury. Now that he's shown that he can use his height and strength to his advantage, it would not surprise me in the least to see him included in some packages that would overload certain defenses with something that exploits their vulnerability against, say, height and speed as one example I wouldn't want to the be DC that has shorter and/or slower DBs to work with, then see a package come on the field that has some combination of Jordy, Janis, Davis and Cook lined-up as receivers and Cobb or Montgomery coming out of the backfield. That's a lot of poison to swallow.

I'm not as pessimistic as some that he could never become a starter or first off the bench type of a player. We just don't know yet, but we've seen some flashy returns on a mere 7th round investment. I once felt the same way about Driver and he turned out okay, and then some. And that did not happen overnight. Janis has the basic physical skills to at least have a shot at a high ceiling as a WR, that's for sure.

He's already a terrific gunner, and you can't help but notice that he defeats double-teams routinely with his strength and then often just blows past the guys trying to block him. Impressive.

There's absolutely no doubt that Janis is a terrific gunner and has the speed to beat cornerbacks on deep routes. Aside of the Hail Mary, a play none other than Jordy Nelson mentioned all being about luck after Rodgers game winning TD at Detroit, he hasn't shown that he's capable of using his height to catch contested balls.

For him to get on the field more often he has to get a better grasp of the playbook, improve his route running and occasionally catch the ball with the defender all over him.

I'm not saying it's not possible for him to improve those aspects of his game but as long as he doesn't show it he will continue to be a one trick pony while playing receiver.

BTW as aome others have mentioned I'm absolutely rooting for Janis to become the next Donald Driver and would be excited if he proves me wrong.

 

[PackerDNA]

I think if Janis and Adams don't show considerable improvement this season, it's time to cut bait and begin rebuilding the WR group.

 

[Sky King]

I predict there will be an outcry to see Janis replace Adams the first time the latter drops a 2016 ball. That has already been widely floated in these pages before the first OTA. I predict such a move would be a sorry mistake.

Probably so about posters wanting to see more of Janis under that circumstance. But some want to see more of Janis, anyway.

My personal confidence level in Adams is not high because of his wilting under pressure repeatedly last season, and his drops were a part of that. So were oddball coaching assignments and a QB whose usually stellar accuracy suffered for a good portion of last season. Then there was the loss of the WR bell cow. But I want all Packer players to do well, Adams included.

Adams did not adapt well to the added pressure brought on by circumstance last season. Injuries notwithstanding, until he proves otherwise he cannot be fully trusted to deliver under pressure IMHO. Will he or won't he this season? That's the million dollar question. He'll probably be given every opportunity to atone for last year, but I wonder how long his leash will be with MM and staff.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

Well the coaches rated Abbrederis the better WR of the two when he leap frogged Janis the moment he got activated off the PS yet Janis is played up by many in this thread as a star in the making, or at least a criminally underused player, and Abby stands the best chance of being cut.

I'd say one is being overrated by the fan base more than the other if the coaches opinions are to be taken into consideration

Coaches aren't immune to hometown pressures.

 

[RRyder]

Coaches aren't immune to hometown pressures.

They were last year and if they weren't I'd want them fired.

The moment you start letting the fans coach your team you'll be watching the game with them soon enough

 

[PikeBadger]

I think if Janis and Adams don't show considerable improvement this season, it's time to cut bait and begin rebuilding the WR group.

I fully expect both of them to be better than last year. It's the natural progression as players mature. The same applies to Abbrederis and the new rookie WR. Will be interesting to see if any of these 4 get cut prior to the season opener.

 

[sschind]

Well I just gave 100 dollars to engineers without borders so feel free to make a donation.

Then again I also did it because one of my friends takes part in the program so whether that counts or not is up to you

I donate to Cartographers without borders.

 

[sschind]

I'm not going to put out individual stats but I will go this route. The Following Green Bay Packers will have more receptions and more yards than Jeff Janis. Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb, Davante Adams, Ty Montgomery, Jared Cook, Richard Rogers, Eddie Lacy and James Starks. Janis will have as many if not more TDs than Adams, Lacy and Starks.

Since James Jones was brought up I will predict that Jeff Janis will surpass James Jones' lowest season totals attained in 2008 of 20/274/1 but he will not reach his next lowest production numbers in receptions or yards(32/440 in 2009) I do think he will have more TDs than Jones did in his next lowest TD year of 3 in 2013. . I'm also going to make my big bold prediction that Jones has better stats than Janis this year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

One question I have, especially of those people so gung ho about Janis at WR. IF his contract had been up at the end of last season and you were the GM of the Packers, how much would you have been willing to pay him? I'm listening.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think if Janis and Adams don't show considerable improvement this season, it's time to cut bait and begin rebuilding the WR group.

If Adams struggles again I agree the Packers should spend an early round pick on a receiver capable of starting on the outside. Janis will continue to be on the team because of his terrific performance on special teams though.

My personal confidence level in Adams is not high because of his wilting under pressure repeatedly last season, and his drops were a part of that.

Adams did not adapt well to the added pressure brought on by circumstance last season. Injuries notwithstanding, until he proves otherwise he cannot be fully trusted to deliver under pressure IMHO. Will he or won't he this season? That's the million dollar question. He'll probably be given every opportunity to atone for last year, but I wonder how long his leash will be with MM and staff.

Adams for sure wasn't ready to be the primary target on the perimeter last season after Nelson got hurt. His performance during the 2014 season as a rookie makes me confident he's capable of becoming a decent #3 receiver. If that's good enough for a second round pick is a different story though.

One question I have, especially of those people so gung ho about Janis at WR. IF his contract had been up at the end of last season and you were the GM of the Packers, how much would you have been willing to pay him? I'm listening.

I would have been fine with paying him $2 million a season based on his performance on special teams.

 

[adambr2]

One question I have, especially of those people so gung ho about Janis at WR. IF his contract had been up at the end of last season and you were the GM of the Packers, how much would you have been willing to pay him? I'm listening.

What were we paying Jarrett Bush? I think it was at least 1.5M solely for his special teams role, and he had sole value only as a gunner, whereas Janis at least has upside to be more than that, so a little more than what we payed Bush.

So Captain's 2M sounds about right.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

What were we paying Jarrett Bush? I think it was at least 1.5M solely for his special teams role, and he had sole value only as a gunner, whereas Janis at least has upside to be more than that, so a little more than what we payed Bush.

The Packers signed Bush to a three year, $5.25 million ($1.75 million per season) deal in 2012. While he was mostly a special teams contributor he played a total of 245 snaps on defense over the length of the contract. In my opinion it would have made sense to submit a similar offer to Janis.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Packers signed Bush to a three year, $5.25 million ($1.75 million per season) deal in 2012. While he was mostly a special teams contributor he played a total of 245 snaps on defense over the length of the contract. In my opinion it would have made sense to submit a similar offer to Janis.

This would make the most sense to me, Bush like money. But I get the feeling that some think his value is well beyond that of a key contributor on special teams.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

There's absolutely no doubt that Janis is a terrific gunner and has the speed to beat cornerbacks on deep routes. Aside of the Hail Mary, a play none other than Jordy Nelson mentioned all being about luck after Rodgers game winning TD at Detroit, he hasn't shown that he's capable of using his height to catch contested balls.

For him to get on the field more often he has to get a better grasp of the playbook, improve his route running and occasionally catch the ball with the defender all over him.

I'm not saying it's not possible for him to improve those aspects of his game but as long as he doesn't show it he will continue to be a one trick pony while playing receiver.

BTW as aome others have mentioned I'm absolutely rooting for Janis to become the next Donald Driver and would be excited if he proves me wrong.

Crazy thing about Janis is that he'd be somewhat unique as such a late round WR with his measurables becoming a legit starting NFL WR (if in fact he does continue to develop, learns his assignments and learns the full route tree). I mean, Marques Colston was a similar size but nowhere near as fast. Maybe Miles Austin could be comparable?

 

[Sky King]

Coaches aren't immune to hometown pressures.

Or of making mistakes in general. Examples: Every coach and GM in the NFL except Weeb Ewbank (Johnny Unitas), Jerry Glanville (Brett Favre), Tom O'Brien (Russell Wilson), Mike McCarthy (Shaun Slocum / Nate Palmer / Brian Bostic / others past, present and future)

Or GMs: Ron Wolf (Craig Hentrick), Thompson (Justin Harrell / Cullen Jenkins / Ron Saturday)...

They don't get it right all the time and no NFL HC or GM has a long career without mistakes on his record, games lost or players about whom they misjudged. It happens.

 

[bigbubbatd]

So options so far include
- Coaches played Abbederias over Janis do to hometown pressure
- Coaches should have recognized that even though Janis doesnt know the playbook he is the next Desmond Bishop
- Coaches and GM's make mistakes thus the pro Janis crowd is right

 

[Sky King]

So options so far include
- Coaches played Abbederias over Janis do to hometown pressure
- Coaches should have recognized that even though Janis doesnt know the playbook he is the next Desmond Bishop
- Coaches and GM's make mistakes thus the pro Janis crowd is right

Don't embellish or add to my quote. The highlighted statement is not a part of my most recent post, so don't make things up. State your own case. I would appreciate that you do not misquote mine.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Don't embellish or add to my quote. The highlighted statement is not a part of my most recent post, so don't make things up. State your own case. I would appreciate that you do not misquote mine.

You are right it was an exact quote but it did seem like that is what you were leading to. Why post that in a thread about Janis? It was a response to someone who implied that the Packers staff played Janis due to hometown pressure which is crazy. To your point I dont disagree the coaching staff can make mistakes and I guess Janis could be one however there is very little reason to believe that. In regular season games Janis has looked lost over 2 years until the Arizona game. Maybe he figured everything out but this isnt like he wasnt given chances. He had chances and ran poor routes. You have to earn the trust of your coaching staff and qb and he didnt do that.

 

[Sky King]

You are right it was an exact quote but it did seem like that is what you were leading to. Why post that in a thread about Janis?...

Here's my point (embellished by me): Whether it was a mistake or not to play Janis earlier and more often last season is yet to be determined. Even then, it would still be subjective. It may still go either way, and none of us really know for sure right right now. We're all just guessing out loud.

Janis' performance against the Cards last year only helped to fuel the fan debate that had already started. How could it not? It was historically spectacular -- one of the best WR playoff performances (statistically) in the playoffs by a Packer WR.

Was McCarthy "wrong" by not playing him earlier and more often last season? Meh. It's all a bag of ashes now, mistake or not. Perhaps McCarthy's timing may have been a little bit off regarding Janis' readiness. We'll know more about that as this season progresses. I've posted my projections and I would hope that nobody would read into those numbers that I am predicting that Janis will be anything more than a role player on offense in 2016, which would be more than he was in 2015.

BTW and most importantly, absolutely no hard feelings between us on my end.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Here's my point (embellished by me): Whether it was a mistake or not to play Janis earlier and more often last season is yet to be determined. Even then, it would still be subjective. It may still go either way, and none of us really know for sure right right now. We're all just guessing out loud.

Janis' performance against the Cards last year only helped to fuel the fan debate that had already started. How could it not? It was historically spectacular -- one of the best WR playoff performances (statistically) in the playoffs by a Packer WR.

Was McCarthy "wrong" by not playing him earlier and more often last season? Meh. It's all a bag of ashes now, mistake or not. Perhaps McCarthy's timing may have been a little bit off regarding Janis' readiness. We'll know more about that as this season progresses. I've posted my projections and I would hope that nobody would read into those numbers that I am predicting that Janis will be anything more than a role player on offense in 2016, which would be more than he was in 2015.

BTW and most importantly, absolutely no hard feelings between us on my end.

Life is too short to have hard feelings on a sport's message board!

I agree that Janis will be a role player on offense. I think it will be a bigger role than last year but the numbers wont be huge for a few reasons
1. Nelson is back and will put up big numbers
2. Nelson is back thus Cobb will be better
3. Adams is likely to be healthy and will probably succeed as a #3 compared to a #1
4. Montgomery will be healthy and he looked good when healthy
5. Cook will make TE a position with more targets
6. Lacy is no longer the size of a guard so we should be able to run more

Not a ton of catches out there for Abby, Janis, or Davis

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think everyone has pretty much repeated, reverberated, regurgitated and requoted just about anything or everything there is to be known about Janis, except maybe his shoe size and favorite color. We will all get our answers to this soon enough. If Janis is playing at WR and putting up decent numbers, then Janis supporters will feel vindicated. Personally, I hope for that. However, if Janis is stuck at #5 or #6 and sees little playing time at WR, I hope people will except the fact, that despite what he did in the AZ game, there are reasons why he is still not seeing the field at WR and this isn't just some big coaching mistake.