Defending Janis

[easyk83]

I'll say this much, Janis will have to make a big jump to see meaningful snaps and even more to beat out Adams. But I honestly believe we'd better if he did beat out a resurgent Davante Adams, I don't see Adams providing the kind of vertical threat that Janis could provide, potentially. Two plus vertical threats on the outside and then you have a wide open center for Cobb and Monty.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Janis excitement isn't based upon his production or lack thereof it's based on A) his measurements and B) a smattering of plays which really did display game breaking ability. Janis on the other hand strung together a string of impressive performances during his first pre-sesaon, granted against scrubs, but he's demonstrated his ability when given a chance.

I would really appreciate if we could stop talking about what Janis did during the preseason as it doesn´t mean anything once the regular season starts.

Written like a politician, Gunter was a marginal talent with a good head for the game, that's it. If he ran a 4.4 40 and that speed occasionally showed up in game time you'd have a point.

But Gunter had an interception during the preseason. I´m surprised there isn´t any talk about him becoming Woodson 2.0 because of it.

And did he or did he not outplay most of those guys when given a chance? You can't deny that he did.

Janis was targeted a total of 12 times during the regular season and caught only two passes. Granted it´s a small sample size but nothing to get excited about.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I will say, this will be a fun forum thread to revisit in a few years. By then we should know if Jeff Janis is a legit WR in the NFL or just another guy like Jarrett Boykin or Matt Flynn.

 

[easyk83]

I will say, this will be a fun forum thread to revisit in a few years. By then we should know if Jeff Janis is a legit WR in the NFL or just another guy like Jarrett Boykin or Matt Flynn.

If Janis succeeds I'll be on here proclaiming his doubters fools. If he fails to develop, more than likely, I'll dismiss it as rational hope over a longshot.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If Janis succeeds I'll be on here proclaiming his doubters fools. If he fails to develop, more than likely, I'll dismiss it as rational hope over a longshot.

LOL.....ohhh....so you are one of THOSE guys! LOL

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If Janis succeeds I'll be on here proclaiming his doubters fools. If he fails to develop, more than likely, I'll dismiss it as rational hope over a longshot.

Your statement made me think of this. I will give Janis credit, he was a long shot to make the team to begin with. For all of us saying he hasn't elevated his game enough to become a starter, I still acknowledge that he must be doing something in the coaches eyes to warrant being patient with a 7th rounder that was slower then most to learn the system. Despite the little playing time or much confidence shown to him by his QB or coaches, Janis stuck with it and didn't give up. His desire to play in the NFL was proven by his efforts on Special Teams and his efforts in AZ. So as you said, if he does finally carve a niche as a WR, it will make for a great story. If he doesn't, he was just another one of those guys who despite giving it his all, just didn't have what it takes to play WR in the NFL.

 

[sschind]

i think us people who have been sold on Janis from first sight, need some credit for seeing the diamond in the rough... I think his development has been held back. And in time he will become what Jordy is for us... A major deep threat. But you need him to be humble, work hard and learn a lot in these years while he works his way up the depth chart... If GB is dumb enough to let him go, he will be a stud somewhere else IMO. time will tell. But I tell you what! that AZ game is a glimpse of what could be

You will get credit for spotting a diamond in the rough when he turns into a diamond. I wouldn't call him a diamond just yet. Medium quality cubic zirconia perhaps

We can speculate all we want on why Janis didn't get more playing time, but the results once he did speak for themselves. Yes, it's only one game, but it's also more than we got from Davante Adams in any one game last season, who had every opportunity.

There's no denying that it's telling that Bob McGinn of the JSOnline who is typically a Packer apologist in situations like this, called out McCarthy for what he called the worst allocation of playing time that he has seen in 25 years.

I'm struggling to understand why so many still deny that Janis should have been playing more last season when we were struggling. If for no other reason, we had the 26th ranked offense last year, for God's sake. Obviously what we were doing wasn't working. So certainly, leaving an unused potential weapon on the bench when your O is struggling is and should be open to plenty of scrutiny.

Not only that, but if we had gotten him on the field earlier than Arizona last year, we'd have a lot veteran idea right now how far his skills extend beyond special teams.

Like you said, if Janis should have been playing more its an indication of how bad our other receivers were doing and not how well he was doing. I don't see that as a ringing endorsement of his talents. What I find far more telling than anything McGinn has to say is that even with our starting receivers playing like crap or being hurt for almost the entire season Janis still couldn't play his way onto the field.

As far as the result speaking for themselves I'm reasonably certain you take 95% of the WRs who have completed their 2nd year in the NFL and make a highlight reel that rivals Janis' minus the two hail Mary's.

I'm not saying I disagree with all you are saying. Perhaps he should have gotten more time. Had he been able to prove to the coaches he deserved it (I'm still not convinced he has proven anything) we may have a better idea right now of where we stand with him but the fact is, for whatever reason he wasn't able to do that. I think that speaks volumes about where he was at the time.

I will say this in defense of him and his development. He was a 7th round draft pick from a small school. Anyone who expected much more out of him than he has shown up to this point was simply expecting too much. The idea of WR's having breakout years in their 3rd season may be going by the wayside, what with all the rookies having good years recently, but still when its expected that higher round picks from premier programs may take three years to develop its is certainly unreasonable to expect it from a "lesser" talent. Like I said, I don't think he has proven anything yet but he has earned the opportunity to try and prove it and he will get that.

Why does everyone hate on him? That's my boy! Lol lets be real tho Rodgers make any receiver look good I mean it's right there for them to catch... If that's there position than it shouldn't be hard... Just saying u could take a bunch of shrubs and we still would be fine... Like last yr yeah talent is a must tho I mean jordy missin and all doesn't help so it's on the receivers a bit yeah but Adams blows!!! Yeah good rookie year but had stone hands!! Send him on his merry way I like having the white Guy's on the team anyways!

There seems to be far more people loving on him than there are hating on him. At least to a much higher degree. Us "haters" are not saying he sucks all we are saying is we don't see the stardom that the "lovers" are seeing. Less than a dozen catches (seven in one game) over 2 seasons and some people are saying he should be starting opposite Jordy Nelson and that he will eventually become the next Jordy Nelson for us. All we are saying is take it down a notch. Many of us see talent and potential just like the rest of you but we don't see that it has reached the next level that so many are putting him at.

I do think it is possible for Janis to rise up to the #3 spot on the depth chart. I think it is far more likely however that he stays closer to the #5 or #6 spot and contributes far more on STs than he does on offense.

Actually, I think that award goes to Abbrederis, hand down.

Not after the Arizona game. Abby has his support from a lot of Badger fans but after that not so much.

 

[sschind]

Adams isn't very good at it. He throws his way, and when he does Adams usually drops it. Too much is made of the concept of "earning Rodgers' trust," which seems to be an undefined, ambiguous concept. It's beginning to look at times like it's Rodgers who has trust issues. It's a myth that you have to be a perfect route runner to excel in the NFL. Look no further than Randy Moss and Tim Brown who were often criticized for sloppy routes. Hell, sometimes Moss didn't even bother to run them.

If Adams usually dropped it he would have had more drops than catches. I don't think that was the case.

I haven't anointed him anything, heck neither did the OP. Janis was always going to be a long term developmental project, we'll see if he continues to develop. Hopefully Adams recovers and Janis continues developing near the bottom of the receiver rotation. Yes I have noticed improvement in his game, I'm happy to wait and see. I am, however, cautiously optimistic over his potential.

You may not have anointed him anything but plenty of people have.

 

[Mondio]

I don't hate Janis. I want him to succeed. But running fast isn't the only ingredient for a successful WR, and for every highlight he's had, he has a low light. Stopping routes, running the wrong route, fading rather than going aggressive to the ball, etc. He has the tools, he's always had them. He plays hard. He's a beast on special teams. I like the guy, I like what he could be. I'm excited to see if he continues stringing success together, or was it a flash in the pan? I'm hoping for the former, but he has a lot to prove. Lots of little things need to come together to be a successful WR.

 

[bigbubbatd]

I don't hate Janis. I want him to succeed. But running fast isn't the only ingredient for a successful WR, and for every highlight he's had, he has a low light. Stopping routes, running the wrong route, fading rather than going aggressive to the ball, etc. He has the tools, he's always had them. He plays hard. He's a beast on special teams. I like the guy, I like what he could be. I'm excited to see if he continues stringing success together, or was it a flash in the pan? I'm hoping for the former, but he has a lot to prove. Lots of little things need to come together to be a successful WR.

I think this where almost all the "detractors" are at. It is a fruitless debate because one group is going from past lack of production, and obvious lack of trust from qb and coaches and where he stood on the depth chart. The other group is going off athletic ability, the preseason and one big game. Both will use exams to back up their points. It will be a circular argument until the season starts

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I would really appreciate if we could stop talking about what Janis did during the preseason as it doesn´t mean anything once the regular season starts.



But Gunter had an interception during the preseason. I´m surprised there isn´t any talk about him becoming Woodson 2.0 because of it.



Janis was targeted a total of 12 times during the regular season and caught only two passes. Granted it´s a small sample size but nothing to get excited about.

To be fair, quite a few of those attempts were deep throws. Adams' percentage of catches per target is poor as well, especially given all of the bubble screens and the abysmal YPC which suggest he doesn't catch many quality or difficult balls.

Adams' contribution will be in line with what any average Joe receiver could do with Rodgers, Nelson, and Cobb on the field (see Jarrett Boykin). Hopefully Davis will add a vertical dynamic to the passing game if Janis doesn't step up, because Adams is limited and inefficient.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

To be fair, quite a few of those attempts were deep throws. Adams' percentage of catches per target is poor as well, especially given all of the bubble screens and the abysmal YPC which suggest he doesn't catch many quality or difficult balls.

There´s no denying Adams catch rate was poor last season but at 53.2% way higher than Janis´.

 

[tynimiller]

I am still at a point with saying Janis is an awesome 7th rounder. Awesome stud ST contributor and a reserve WR on a roster. And to be honest I'm fine with him living in that 5th WR option and stud ST'er role if that is all he is ever for us.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I am still at a point with saying Janis is an awesome 7th rounder. Awesome stud ST contributor and a reserve WR on a roster. And to be honest I'm fine with him living in that 5th WR option and stud ST'er role if that is all he is ever for us.

Agreed, as I've said repeatedly the expectations for Janis have been way too high since he entered the league and still are at the moment.

 

[sschind]

I am still at a point with saying Janis is an awesome 7th rounder. Awesome stud ST contributor and a reserve WR on a roster. And to be honest I'm fine with him living in that 5th WR option and stud ST'er role if that is all he is ever for us.

Here is the problem with that. As WIMM pointed out earlier when relatively healthy the Packers tended to activate 4 WRs for a game. If they go back to that do you activate your 5th WR (instead of your 4th) because he is a special teams stud or do you activate the better WR? Do you activate 5 WRs anyway so you have your best WRs available AND your ST stud? Do you try to find someone else who may be activated on offense or defense who can take the place of that 5th WR in the ST role?

People keep going back to Jarrett Bush and saying the only reason he stayed on the team was because he was a ST ace but if I recall he also saw action in a quite a few games (to the consternation of many fans) Was he activated on game day just because he was a ST stud and got his chance to play defense as well or was he active because he was higher up in the DB rotation and just happened to be the ST stud.

Simply put is having a ST stud on the field more important than having your best 46 players active? If the Packers go with only 4 active WRs per game at this point I'm not sure I see Janis being one of them despite his ST contribution.

It is possible, with the acquisition of a better pass catching TE (hopefully) and the return of Eddie Lacy to a more prominent pass catching role (hopefully), the 4th WR spot may not be so important and the ST ability will win out.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Here is the problem with that. As WIMM pointed out earlier when relatively healthy the Packers tended to activate 4 WRs for a game. If they go back to that do you activate your 5th WR (instead of your 4th) because he is a special teams stud or do you activate the better WR? Do you activate 5 WRs anyway so you have your best WRs available AND your ST stud? Do you try to find someone else who may be activated on offense or defense who can take the place of that 5th WR in the ST role?

People keep going back to Jarrett Bush and saying the only reason he stayed on the team was because he was a ST ace but if I recall he also saw action in a quite a few games (to the consternation of many fans) Was he activated on game day just because he was a ST stud and got his chance to play defense as well or was he active because he was higher up in the DB rotation and just happened to be the ST stud.

Simply put is having a ST stud on the field more important than having your best 46 players active? If the Packers go with only 4 active WRs per game at this point I'm not sure I see Janis being one of them despite his ST contribution.

It is possible, with the acquisition of a better pass catching TE (hopefully) and the return of Eddie Lacy to a more prominent pass catching role (hopefully), the 4th WR spot may not be so important and the ST ability will win out.

I fully expect Janis to be active on game days because of his performance on special teams. Mostly not every single one of the 46 players get snaps on either offense or defense.

 

[tynimiller]

Simply put is having a ST stud on the field more important than having your best 46 players active? If the Packers go with only 4 active WRs per game at this point I'm not sure I see Janis being one of them despite his ST contribution.

Honestly yes, if having your best gunner is more value than having a 4th wideout at times definitely. I actually foresee more 5 active WRs games than 4.

 

[rodell330]

I would really appreciate if we could stop talking about what Janis did during the preseason as it doesn´t mean anything once the regular season starts.



But Gunter had an interception during the preseason. I´m surprised there isn´t any talk about him becoming Woodson 2.0 because of it.



Janis was targeted a total of 12 times during the regular season and caught only two passes. Granted it´s a small sample size but nothing to get excited about.

Yep and 10 of those were deep post or fades. Watch the Arizona playoff game again. There's a play where Janis has the DB beat by about two steps, and Rodgers under throws it badly and the DB is able to make a play on the ball. If not for that under throw Janis has 3 Tds that game and the Packers probably win. Then im sure your take on Janis would sound a lot different. Guarantee it would.

GO TO 14:20 in the 2nd quarter and watch that play. That was six points for sure.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Yep and 10 of those were deep post or fades. Watch the Arizona playoff game again. There's a play where Janis has the DB beat by about two steps, and Rodgers under throws it badly and the DB is able to make a play on the ball. If not for that under throw Janis has 3 Tds that game and the Packers probably win. Then im sure your take on Janis would sound a lot different. Guarantee it would.

GO TO 14:20 in the 2nd quarter and watch that play. That was six points for sure.

Well you know, they probably didn't plan on making Janis a kick returner until they had no choice, and he shined and kept the job. Maybe his performance at WR will have the same effect. Without taking everything else into account, almost every single one of those catches was at a crucial moment. It takes a special player to repeatedly do that. I knew how athletic he was, but I didn't know he had that in him.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yep and 10 of those were deep post or fades.

Actually only five of Janis 12 targets were deep balls with him catching one of it. In addition he only caught a single of his seven short targets.

Watch the Arizona playoff game again. There's a play where Janis has the DB beat by about two steps, and Rodgers under throws it badly and the DB is able to make a play on the ball. If not for that under throw Janis has 3 Tds that game and the Packers probably win. Then im sure your take on Janis would sound a lot different. Guarantee it would.

GO TO 14:20 in the 2nd quarter and watch that play. That was six points for sure.

It´s true that Rodgers slightly underthrew that ball. Justin Bethel blowing the coverage was the only reason for Janis being open on that play though. That doesn´t change my take on him at all.

 

[easyk83]

I would really appreciate if we could stop talking about what Janis did during the preseason as it doesn´t mean anything once the regular season starts.



But Gunter had an interception during the preseason. I´m surprised there isn´t any talk about him becoming Woodson 2.0 because of it.



Janis was targeted a total of 12 times during the regular season and caught only two passes. Granted it´s a small sample size but nothing to get excited about.

First, how else do you evaluate young players, or should we limit such evaluation to practice reports? If we did then Desmond Bishop should have been released for being too erratic. Is PS performance on the same level as in season performance, of course not. But for a player on the bubble it says a lot when they execute in their given opportunities, and for them the pressure to perform is very real.

Gunter is a good bottom of the depth chart guy, he's a good natural player who just doesn't have the footspeed to play at a high level at this level.

As for regular season performance yes it was uneven but the guy can play, he does seize his opportunities and when he's where he's supposed to be he catches it. What's more concerning Janis' struggles(common for small school guys) to understand offensive concepts or Adams' inability perform when the pressure is on? Janis should be able to pick up the play book and pick up the intricacies of an NFL offense, Adams' struggles might prove harder to fix.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Desmond Bishop is getting a lot of love for being the one example people can think of who was bad in practice and good in games. Here is the thing Janis was good in one game and bishop was good over time. Outside of Arizona Janis did almost nothing when on the field with the offense. Do people really think our coaching staff is that dumb? Guess what if a guy is bad in practice he almost always is bad in games.

 

[easyk83]

Speaking Janis' potential check this out,

http://www.mockdraftable.com/player/4498/

Guy has elite characteristics, but he has some small hands for the position. Could lead to long term problems with catching.

 

[easyk83]

Desmond Bishop is getting a lot of love for being the one example people can think of who was bad in practice and good in games. Here is the thing Janis was good in one game and bishop was good over time. Outside of Arizona Janis did almost nothing when on the field with the offense. Do people really think our coaching staff is that dumb? Guess what if a guy is bad in practice he almost always is bad in games.

Matt Flynn was a lousy practice quarterback and a great backup before he messed up his elbow, might even have become a legit starter but he was already average in arm strength before the injury and lost a good deal of his velocity afterwards. As for Bishop he was great against the Texans in his second year, before being banished back to the bench. He had 3 forced fumbles in a little more than a half. He got in because the Coaches didn't have a choice. I liken Janis' PO performance to that performance by Bishop, let's see if like Bishop he continues to grow in years 3 and 4. Lest we forget, Brandon Chillar was ahead of Desmond in the lineup.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Matt Flynn was a lousy practice quarterback and a great backup before he messed up his elbow, might even have become a legit starter but he was already average in arm strength before the injury and lost a good deal of his velocity afterwards.

Pretty sure Flynn makes the point for the Janis is overrated crowd. One big game but nothing else