Datne Jones

[GreenBaySlacker]

So why take a guy who can't stop the run or probably cover out in space and make him an olb? That makes absolutely no sense. This move is just another way to try to save face. Dhaytone Jones was NEVER a good fit in GB and neither was Perry.

Remember Aaron Kampman?? He was an ELITE player on our defense for years and durable. But sense he was considered to "small" to play on the line they ruined him by putting him at olb. He never got the chances Perry has gotten before he was jettisoned off. He was a wayyyyy better player to...I bet not a single person in here will argue against that. He wasn't a TT guy tho so he didn't get the chances that TT gives the guys he drafts. If anyone should've been extended it should've been guys like Woodson and Jenkins.

kampman blew his acl... otherwise i think he was doing very well up to that point

 

[Deleted member 6794]

kampman blew his acl... otherwise i think he was doing very well up to that point

Kampman was a great defensive end in the Packers 4-3 defense but wasn´t a fit for Capers scheme. That´s why he signed with the Jaguars after the 2009 season.

 

[Mondio]

So why take a guy who can't stop the run or probably cover out in space and make him an olb? That makes absolutely no sense. This move is just another way to try to save face. Dhaytone Jones was NEVER a good fit in GB and neither was Perry.

Remember Aaron Kampman?? He was an ELITE player on our defense for years and durable. But sense he was considered to "small" to play on the line they ruined him by putting him at olb. He never got the chances Perry has gotten before he was jettisoned off. He was a wayyyyy better player to...I bet not a single person in here will argue against that. He wasn't a TT guy tho so he didn't get the chances that TT gives the guys he drafts. If anyone should've been extended it should've been guys like Woodson and Jenkins.

He wasn't too small to play on the line, he was very good at DE. What really happened was Dom Capers was brought in and we switched to a 3-4 defense. In the middle of that position conversion he blew out his knee. At the end of the season he was a FA and signed a pretty good contract with Jacksonville to continue playing his already learned position in as a 4-3 defensive end.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Kampman was a great defensive end in the Packers 4-3 defense but wasn´t a fit for Capers scheme. That´s why he signed with the Jaguars after the 2009 season.

IMO, that was the fear and general agreement among football junkies, was that Kampman wasnt a fit, and was too old to make the transition. But what I seen was a guy who was terrible in coverage day 1, and got better every time i seen him drop back. he was actually knocking down a few balls before the knee blew. But the reason he was playing OLB was for his pass rushing. And if i remember right he had a good amount of sacks considering how many games he played. I might be remembering pre-season, but i remember a good number of them...

After the ACL he left, and we will never know. But I suspect he could have made the transition, similar to Peppers doing it late in his career,

I alsofeel like the move to OLB ended his career prematurly. He was doing something new. New muscles. Old muscle memory mixing with new muscle movments. He wasnt built for it IMO, and he broke a wheel. Then the next year, he was coming out hot, and blew the other acl. He was gone after that i believe. But yea...... You think he blows the ACL if he continues to play DE like he did for so many years...

 

[easyk83]

kampman's problem was that he was never a explosive fast twitch pass rusher. He was always a mix power and technique. Even beyond the conversion he slimmed down towards the end of his career and he seemed to lose his power and push.

 

[easyk83]

HRE, do you realize the guy in the pictures is Nick Perry and not Datone Jones???

Yeah 283 caught me off guard, Perry listed in at 271 at the combine. At this point in his career Id like to see him try a lighter weight and see what happens, he's not getting it done at 265+.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

And if i remember right he had a good amount of sacks considering how many games he played. I might be remembering pre-season, but i remember a good number of them...

After the ACL he left, and we will never know. But I suspect he could have made the transition, similar to Peppers doing it late in his career,

Kampman had 3.5 sacks in 9 games playing outside linebacker for the Packers in 2009, which was a steep decline compared to 37 in 47 from 2006-08 lining up at defensive end.

While it´s possible he could have made a succesful transition to OLB he was pretty outspoken about not wanting the make the move.

 

[Half Empty]

Kampman left because his contract expired and he wanted to play DE not OLB.

Correct, but isn't that what the previous said? The Pack ruined Kampy but switching him, so he left.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Correct, but isn't that what the previous said? The Pack ruined Kampy but switching him, so he left.

The Packers switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4 defense after hiring Capers in 2009. Kampman would not have been able to play defensive end in his scheme.

 

[easyk83]

Datone can rush the passed and he will get chances to do that outside. Jones looked like a good fit when he was drafted but he didn't pan out. When Jones was drafted many analysts said he was perfect fit for the gb defense. I remember a guy on the radio saying Jones might win defensive Roy. Obviously they all seem wrong but many thought he fit. Perry was widely questioned. With jones They are trying him at olb to see if he can provide value to the team there. He gives position flexibility which this staff loves.

Not sure what the point is with Kampman. He wanted to leave. Perry has struggled to be healthy but when healthy has shown he can play. He might have been our best defender on the redskins playoff game.

I actually think Datone has looked like a natural in space. More natural than either Perry or Neal which isn't saying much.

Perry was an absolute monster against the Skins. IMHO last year our defense looked like a different unit whenever Perry was healthy, dominant.

 

[XPack]

Move Clay outside and draft Fackrell all indicates we may not want him for long. See out his contract and let him leave in FA.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Perry and Jones would tease us on occasion, they'd make some splash plays and leave us thinking maybe now is the time maybe now theyre getting it... before going back to irrelevance. What Nick Perry did against the Skins last year was just ridiculous, but thats just when he's healthy. I wonder if Perry isn't one of those guys who blew up and got too big once they got into the NFL, maybe he needs to be locked out of the weight room and strongly encouraged to shed 5-10 pounds. His ligaments might do better with a little less muscle around them and his feet might be better with a little less weight on them.

Here he is with USC,

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Looks like he has a great football build. But now here he is in Green Bay:

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Am I seeing things or does it look like he hulked out? Bear in mind, in the bottom picture he's not even wearing pads.

I'm not seeing things, his playing weight at USC was 250. Maybe the extra 15 pounds explains why he can't stay healthy, just too much bulk.

Perry said when he came out that he preferred to play DE in the NFL; I actually think it's harder for him to stay below 260lbs, he's naturally a bigger guy. Most players gain weight over time in the NFL as they get bigger, older and spend more time in a pro work environment (mind you, I'm talking about the guys in shape...obviously Lacy isn't a guy that should be gaining weight). I always thought it was a reach to take a guy that said he wanted to play DE, seemed too big to play OLB and then draft him and tell him to play OLB.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Have you looked at the dollar amount attached to that option? There's a wide middle area between busted and gone vs. a fat one year paycheck.

I'm not a fan of Jones. I did not like the pick to start with, and I've seen little to recommend the guy beyond rotational play. But as we saw with Perry, declining the option does not necessarily mean he will not be in the Packer future.

Hey, he could make a couple plays in the playoffs and they'll sign him for $5 mil.

Never said he wouldn't be a Packer in the future. I simply stated that he's been a disappointing first round pick. Similar to your point, there's a difference between disappointing first round pick and terrible player; I don't think it can be argued that Jones was a good first round pick.

Actually makes for an interesting discussion, which of Jones vs Perry was actually the better pick?

 

[Mondio]

The thing is, when Perry is healthy, he's more than capable of playing OLB. Regardless of what he said, or wanted or anything, when he's healthy and lines up, he can collapse and shrink the pocket from one side of the line. Guys like him are very important to defenses, as they don't allow space for QB's or runners to escape thru. In addition, he's good enough at it, he can walk a tackle right back intot he QB's lap and get the sack too. He also sets the edge very well in the run game.

The issue with Perry has always been his availability to be on the field with 2 good shoulders and 2 good legs. If he's healthy he can make a lot of plays and a lot of money in any defensive alignment, but if he can't stay on the field I just as soon allow someone else pay him the money after this year.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Actually makes for an interesting discussion, which of Jones vs Perry was actually the better pick?

Tough call. Though Perry is the better football player, the fact he did everything but hang out a sign saying, "I want to play 4-3 DE", they took him anyway. Playing NFL football is hard enough; having a guy who isn't all-in to his role is a pretty steep handicap.

I don't blame the player. In the right attacking 4-3 scheme where he would have been put in "release the hound" mode, I could see him as a 10 sack guy.

So, did he get a cheap offer along those lines to come in and compete for a job, but took the better Packer money instead? That would not be good.

Or did it become apparent that Neal would not be re-signed, and with Peppers in the last year of his contract (with maybe a reduced snap count), this could be a year where he could make a mark and set himself up for a multi-year deal as the Peppers heir apparent? That would be a good attitude to have.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Here is a look as to what other teams are doing with their current 2013 First Round draft choices and the 5th year option. I forgot about 1/2 these guys, but then again, if I wasn't a Packer Fan, maybe Jones's name wouldn't ring a bell either.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...year-option-tracker-for-2013-firstround-picks

 

[bigbubbatd]

If Perry wanted to be a DE that bad he should have left in fa this year even if he would have been paid a little less

 

[Mondio]

Jones has been disappointing so far, no question about that. He appears to have the physical ability, and he's shown flashes. I know early in his career he was injured, etc, but lately it seems like he just doesn't play consistently well enough to see the field and make plays all that often. He has made plays, but where's the consistency? and why doesn't he maintain? It will be interesting to see what a position change does this season, if it in fact happens.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Move Clay outside and draft Fackrell all indicates we may not want him for long. See out his contract and let him leave in FA.

I don´t think moving the Packers best defensive player to his best position as well as drafting a rookie in the third round means the team has given up on Datone.

It will be interesting to see what a position change does this season, if it in fact happens.

Datone already played more snaps at outside linebacker than defensive end during the second half of last season.

 

[rodell330]

Ok so I'll admit the Packers ruined Kanpman by switching since no one rise will haha. Prior to that the guy was probably our best defensive player.

 

[easyk83]

Ok so I'll admit the Packers ruined Kanpman by switching since no one rise will haha. Prior to that the guy was probably our best defensive player.

Kampman was at his best playing in the mid 270s. He planned to slim down even before the switch and IMHO the lighter he became the less effective he became, he was never going to be a speed edge guy. He was always at his best as a bull rushing technician. There is some explosion and fluidity in Datone's game that Kamp never had.

The reality is that most DEs fail to make it at the Pro level whether they stay at DE or move out to OLB. For some the switch makes them more effective, Clay Matthews, for others they simply lack the natural ability. A common 43 alignment is the 43 under which is basically a 34 setup and functions like a 34 but with 4 guys with their hand in the dirt. You have an NT, a 3 tech DT, a 5 tech DE and then you have the elephant end in 7 tech. What's an elephant end? An elephant end lines up in the 7 tech position, he's mostly a pass rusher but he drops into coverage and plays in space more than your usual DE. Nick Perry played as an elephant end at USC.

 

[easyk83]

The Packers switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4 defense after hiring Capers in 2009. Kampman would not have been able to play defensive end in his scheme.

At that point in his career he couldnt have. But when Capers came on Kamp had already shed quite a bit of his bulk. IMHO he could have been a superb 5 tech playing in the 280s. But it probably would have been too much to have him put on 25 pounds in one spring.

 

[easyk83]

Perry said when he came out that he preferred to play DE in the NFL; I actually think it's harder for him to stay below 260lbs, he's naturally a bigger guy. Most players gain weight over time in the NFL as they get bigger, older and spend more time in a pro work environment (mind you, I'm talking about the guys in shape...obviously Lacy isn't a guy that should be gaining weight). I always thought it was a reach to take a guy that said he wanted to play DE, seemed too big to play OLB and then draft him and tell him to play OLB.

He said he preferred it but even he had to know that A) he's a tweener and B) his position at USC was not as a true DE, he was an elephant end. I don't think that that's his optimal weight, I look at him at USC and he was always a muscular guy but since he's been in Green Bay he's just looked massively muscled. Just a hunch but if he can't stay healthy playing at 265-270 why not slim down to 255 and see what happens? At this point he's just a guy who plays like a young DeMarcus Ware for about 2-3 games a year when he's healthy and then goes back to looking like a backup.

When healthy he's a force even as an OLB, but he's never healthy. I don't buy it that he'd have less trouble with injuries as a 43 end.

 

[easyk83]

Yes. Or Mike Neal as another example

Mike Neal had a bigger adjustment going from DT, to OLB. Jones has always been a defensive end and he looked natural playing in space when asked to do it.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Ok so I'll admit the Packers ruined Kanpman by switching since no one rise will haha. Prior to that the guy was probably our best defensive player.

The only way you can conclude that the Packers ruined Kampman is you believe the conversion from 4-3 to 3-4 was a mistake. Where else was he supposed to play in the 3-4?

It would be kind of like saying the Packers "ruined" Matthews by playing him at ILB.

Bad fit? Yes. Ruined? No.