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Can this be happening in Green Bay?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by P@ck66, Dec 8, 2005.

  1. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    (Substitute the word "Favre" for Culpepper...)

    Miracle in Minnesota

    By Boomer Esiason
    Special to NFL.com


    Video: Brad Johnson's up-and-down career
    (Dec. 7, 2005) -- Injuries are never a good thing, but it's definitely apparent that the injury suffered by Daunte Culpepper has had a profound effect on the Vikings. The removal of Culpepper from the lineup has forced the rest of the Vikings to up their play.

    When you have a powerful presence such as Culpepper in the locker room, the criticism tends to surround that player. It is my belief that subconsciously other players hide behind that powerful presence. I have seen many instances in which players with the presence and reputation of Culpepper received a great deal of unfair criticism. While Culpepper wasn't playing well when he was healthy this season, he certainly wasn't losing games by himself. But now, because of his absence, players cannot hide behind their quarterback.

    This was the same type of situation that occurred in New England when Drew Bledsoe got hurt in 2001. Bill Belichick recognized this, and ultimately stayed with Tom Brady.


    Brad Johnson can't take the risks Daunte Culpepper can, but that has been a good thing.
    Now, Brad Johnson is no Tom Brady -- because he is significantly older -- but what he has done has completely calmed down the Vikings offense. Even though Culpepper is a more explosive quarterback, it is Johnson who has the perfect personality for what ails the Minnesota Vikings.

    With Mike Tice going back to running the ball more often, becoming more conservative on offense and asking Johnson to read defenses, the turnovers have disappeared. That, coupled with the re-emergence of the Vikings defense, has led to Minnesota's resurgence; all this being done while Culpepper is no longer in uniform.

    Given the state of where the Vikings were six weeks ago, this has been a miraculous turnaround.

    (AND NO...I'M NOT SUGGESTING BENCHING #4...)
     
  2. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    NO... I don't think it is happening in Green Bay nor do I think it is happening in Minnesota. I know what you are getting at but Culpeper hasn't accomplished enough to garner that reaction from his team. I put Culpeper on the same level as McNabb....a good athlete and QB but not the leader and accomplished QB that Favre is.

    I also don't think that is what is happening in Green Bay. Brett's teammates would do anything for him. He has always got other players to follow him. He may be the best leader to ever play the game. I don't think football is a sport where guys can stand around in awe and just watch the Superstar expecting him to make something happen. I do believe this happens in Hockey and basketball sometimes.

    Brett is taking so much heat because he is the QB of a 2-10 team. The QB and the headcoach always get too much of the blame when a team sh1ts the bed.
     
  3. CaliforniaCheez

    CaliforniaCheez Cheesehead

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    Not a word........
     
  4. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    I agree with you Depack...

    BUT...there is something that happens to some players "internally" who don't have the drive of a Brett Favre to win "at all times" when your team is "2 and whatever"...

    Teammates might start to dog it a little..or go through the motions....thinking of how cold it is outside, and how if they can just hold on for 5 more games...they will be in FLA, or wherever...lying in the sun....especially when they have a coach who is soft and not riding them too hard.

    Now Driver, Gado, Clifton, and Tauscher are the only ones I can think of who would not pull this stunt.....the other players....????

    Well..you can never be too sure....

    (Something else to think about when you want to pin it all on Brett...)
     
  5. shiftysdad

    shiftysdad Cheesehead

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    i agree too, Brett Favre is getting way too much blame on this.
    it's not Brett, it's the team.
    put any quaterback, bledsoe, manning, vick, brady; the team will still be 2-10. there is nothing wtrong with Favre, his only fault is that he is one of the only good players on the team that isn't injured. ad the coaching int that good either.
     
  6. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    I agree with you 66 & DePack. Favre is the only playmakers left on this team, and the fact is he is going to lead us to victory, because no one else can. As for your assessment 66, I am inclined to think that at least it has crossed the players mind about quiting. But what I think keeps them against quitting is Brett. Knowing you never gave it your best, and then having to eventually face Brett, it probable will keep some of the yonger players from giving it their all.

    People expect Brett to make chicken $hit and make Chicken salad out of it..... but even Brett can only do so much. He is the reason Pack are in the games heading into the 4th quarter, you can't blame the guy when there simply isn't enough talent on the team.
     
  7. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    LET ME ADD A FEW THOUGHTS from a Sports Radio Show Host I listen to almost every morning on the way to the Office......

    Another vote for benching Brett

    By Steve Czaban

    Published Dec. 7, 2005 at 5:03 a.m.

    [​IMG]

    If you are the Packers right now, here's your dilemma.

    A franchise icon, no less revered than Starr and Lombardi, is in the dying throes of his career.

    His abilities, although diminished, clearly indicate that he can captain the offense to playoff caliber success - if only he had sufficient resources.

    He has yet to commit to playing another season, even though he is technically under contract. Retirement looms again this winter, even more real than it did last year.

    The current lineup, is a nothing more than a cheap shell of a legitimate NFL team, as injuries have carpet bombed an already thinning roster of talent.

    With a record of 2-10, the team is tantalizingly close to the number one overall pick this spring. Most likely sitting in this draft are two heart-stopping prospects from reigning college colossus USC.

    Your "heir apparent" at quarterback is a first-round pick from last year, sitting on the sidelines still in his original packaging. The curious know he's not ready to win, but they would still like to see him play a little before they put the winter tarp on Lambeau Field.

    The icon has been turning in increasingly desperate performances as of late, and nobody can blame him. He is however, sustaining an awful beating, the kind that makes guys dream about cutting grass on a warm day in Mississippi.

    The coach is a steadfast loyalist to the icon, refusing to even consider the notion of benching him. This is either a measure of his true devotion and respect, or perhaps a fearful pandering aimed at enticing one more year of service.

    Complicating it all, is that number. Two-hundred-seventeen.

    In short, your franchise is at a 10-year crossroads. So what would you do, Mr. Bigshot Couch GM? Do you cave to sentimentality and the vague notion of "respect?" Or do you clench your jaw and just "do what needs to be done?"

    Think it over and get back to me with an answer.

    (Insert Jeopardy music here.)

    OK, I'm back. I spent two minutes on it, and I think I've got it.

    Bench him, throw in Aaron Rodgers for this last month, and let the chips fall.

    Of course, you should bend over backwards as an organization to emphasize that this was the "honorable" thing to do. No player, especially one like Favre, should have to risk his life with such a motley crew of talent around him. Say a million times how Favre has single-handedly hoisted this team to be as feisty as a 2-10 squad can be. And above all, mention how much the organization looks forward to a rested and recharged Favre to make another run in 2006 with better talent and more health.

    It should be easy, but I know why it's not. For most NFL teams this is what happens at the rump-steak portion of a wasted NFL year. Of course you want to win, but if ever there was a time to experiment and evaluate a little, it's now. There's no hand wringing or bellyaching about it.

    But it's also hard, because it means finally walking away from the warm cocoon of "What You Know" as a franchise. When the most critical component of a football team is also the most enduring constant for 15 years, I can excuse a head coach, general manager, or an entire football loving population for being just a little bit scared to death of that amorphous and uncertain thing called "What Comes Next."

    But guess what? It's here. And it doesn't care.

    "What Comes Next" has been knocking on the door so long and loud, the next knock is going to be a kick that blows that door in. At which time, you won't be controlling the transition process, you'll be trying to catch up with it.

    There's an understandable desire to give Favre the so-called "final edit" on the closing scenes of his own career in Green Bay. Many in fact, say that he has "earned it." But if he really does want control of that "final edit" then he's under an obligation to at least call it.

    Even icons, don't get to have it both ways. Had Favre given the Packers a reasonably certain commitment for 2006, then none of this would be happening. But he's unwilling to say for sure whether he's staying or going..

    Maybe Favre really does want to be a player who allows his departure to be buried behind a podium in the depths of winter, devoid of an awkward ceremonial farewell before the home crowd counting down his last games.

    If it so, then the Packers can certainly deliver by pulling him from the next home game 4th quarter to an ovation that could fill an entire one-hour NFL Films special.

    The conventional wisdom is that a benching now, would be an affront to him for how gamely he's fought this year for the team, thus accelerating his desire to get on that lawnmower.

    But logically speaking, a benching now might actually have the reverse effect of pushing Favre to return for one more year. Stung by the losing of this wretched season, its hard to imagine a competitive warrior like himself allowing these to be the final unfortunate chapters.

    There's an even more unspeakable scenario that one Brian Nelson from The Hog is advocating: Favre is tanking it - on purpose! The wily, cagy vet that he is, "the four-car" is throwing even more egregious blooper balls than ever, because he would love to return one more season with a lightning bolt running back like Reggie Bush over his shoulder. Throw in a retooled o-line, healthy receivers, and a Charmin-soft last place schedule, and boy oh boy could we be having some fun next year!

    But I don't believe it. Nah. Favre lay down? Even for the ultimate good of the franchise? Never.*

    (*Well, unless you are his buddy Strahan going for the sack record ... OK, let's not go there.)

    The more likely explanation is the one right in front of everyone's nose. A loved one's career is dying in Packerland, and its like everyone in the family is simply too much in denial to do anything about it. At the very least, you could help him pass on with some dignity, or perhaps do something bold to ensure that he lives another year.

    Or you can just sit there and weep bravely. Which apparently is what Mike Sherman plans to do.

    ===============================

    Here in Indy - on AM Sports Radio - First Team on FOX - The Czabe...!
     
  8. IPBprez

    IPBprez Cheesehead

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    I would add - that Czabe sorta does nail it here - with only one slight twist to it all....

    Favre can still start - but eventually by Halftime, or so... Nall or Rodgers should just step in and as he points out - let the chips fall... And, do this tactic in each of the final four games of this Season.

    I (also) don't see Favre's career having this Season as his final chapter - Deanna wouldn't stand for it. I know it would leave a bitter taste in Brett's mouth and he'd take a contract somewhere else just to avoid it.

    Would you want to be the HC that benches "Brett Favre"...?
    It would be the final cap in the stone that buries Mike Sherman's NFL career - I can tell ya that. Some would say "so what"... others, well... who knows!

    Czabe's comments are bringing in the phone calls every morning to his Show - I know that... I think he's also on Sirius Radio - look for him - I'm not sure if they play him at all in Milwaukee any more - I was there for a week and couldn't pick it up .... Am I wrong about that?

    OPINIONS? to Czabe's article......
     
  9. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    Bench Favre and he would retire. If you want to force him out bench him. If you want him back...play him. It really is that simple.
     
  10. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    Maybe Favre can be relegated to getting the "tee" after after a Longwell kickoff....right net?
     
  11. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Brett's said he won't play if hes on the bench. He said something like 'im a player not a cheerleader' or something.

    If Brett gets benched after half time I think the majority word will be he is only starting to keep his streak alive and he'll have an * by it.
     
  12. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

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    Favre is making some crucial mistakes in games this season and how much of that is because of the lack of talent around him is hard to measure. I hate to see the topic even talked about "whether he should get benched". This is BRETT FAVRE!!!! He has "earned" the right to play as long as he wants and everyone of us will miss him dearly when he's had enough. I'm going to sit back and enjoy these last 4 games with him at the helm and hope that it isn't the last time we see him play for the Pack.

    The talent that was lost to injury comes back next year, we get a softer schedule with some high draft picks. The Packers are nowhere near what the 49ers went through and hopefully TT can bring us back to glory soon.
     

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