Cam Achord new ST coach - Fire him

[OldSchool101]

As others have said. When the team ranks bottom 10 area (overall ST) on a consistent basis (consecutive seasons) you’ve got to at minimum strongly contemplate making changes. Here I can’t help but wonder if Rich was made aware that his units did not grade out good. I would think if us casual fans watch the rankings, the STC would have to review that phase grading.

Rich had more than adequate time to get the ST ship righted. Sometimes just getting a fresh face in the building can spark a positive change. I see us as a #23-25 area graded ST as a whole and that’s not acceptable past maybe an initial season or 2 at most. In a way, Rich did us a favor and bowed out with some class. I’m at least mildly excited to see what a new group can do.

 

[El Guapo]

Imagine the Packers hiring ARod to their coaching staff. We could use a conflict of interest.

Intriguing but generally I'm not a fan of star players becoming coaches. I like the guys that didn't have the physical tools and therefore had to compensate by being elite students of the game. They always seem to make some of the best coaches IMO...or sometimes you just need a great motivator.

Rodgers greater-than-thou attitude and unmistakable face-of-disgust when things don't go correctly, don't strike me as good coaching traits.

 

[El Guapo]

Rich had more than adequate time to get the ST ship righted. Sometimes just getting a fresh face in the building can spark a positive change. I see us as a #23-25 area graded ST as a whole and that’s not acceptable past maybe an initial season or 2 at most. In a way, Rich did us a favor and bowed out with some class. I’m at least mildly excited to see what a new group can do.

I would be more excited if Gute continued to put more resources into the bottom of the roster. We have not had a good, young returner in a long time. Nixon flashed briefly. We have two above-average kickers, but many warts are overlooked when ST delivers a touchdown or two each season, or even just some game-changing field positions.

Sadly, I am not sure that anyone short of Vince Lombardi is going to work miracles on the current special teams.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Kinda sounds like it though, doesn't it?

Again, we probably will never know if Bisaccia would have been fired or would have been retained "as is", or if his resignation was 100% because he wanted to.

I would like to think that MLF let him resign to save face, but if that caused a long delay, it may have handcuffed the Packers on finding his replacement, until his resignation was announced.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Intriguing but generally I'm not a fan of star players becoming coaches. I like the guys that didn't have the physical tools and therefore had to compensate by being elite students of the game. They always seem to make some of the best coaches IMO...or sometimes you just need a great motivator.

Rodgers greater-than-thou attitude and unmistakable face-of-disgust when things don't go correctly, don't strike me as good coaching traits.

Rodgers would probably make a good pee-wee or H.S. coach, but I think he would ruffle too many feathers of both players and coaches beyond those levels.

I see an open door for him to become a color commentator/analyst for NFL football. The guy has to be one of the most cerebral players to play the game.
I do remember reading something he said though, kind of to the effect that after he hangs up his cleats, he would walk away from football in general.

 

[milani]

Intriguing but generally I'm not a fan of star players becoming coaches. I like the guys that didn't have the physical tools and therefore had to compensate by being elite students of the game. They always seem to make some of the best coaches IMO...or sometimes you just need a great motivator.

Rodgers greater-than-thou attitude and unmistakable face-of-disgust when things don't go correctly, don't strike me as good coaching traits.

Cannot argue with that. Lombardi got mauled in college on the offensive line.

 

[rmontro]

I see an open door for him to become a color commentator/analyst for NFL football. The guy has to be one of the most cerebral players to play the game.

I was thinking about this the other day. Do you think Brady outplayed Rodgers when they played each other, or outsmarted him? Or maybe both? Brady seems like a pretty cerebral player himself.

 

[milani]

I was thinking about this the other day. Do you think Brady outplayed Rodgers when they played each other, or outsmarted him? Or maybe both? Brady seems like a pretty cerebral player himself.

I think they played each other 3 times, one of which was when Brady was with the Bucs. In the game in New England the Pats were simply the better team. In GB it was an excellent contest 26-21 Pack. Brady got sacked late and a missed FG resulted. Rodgers hit Cobb on a key 3rd down to ice the game. The Bucs game has been hashed out plenty. Brady was a master but had 3 picks of which we did not capitalize enough.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Got to agree, the offense just seems so stale and stagnant sometimes, like it's trying to move through molasses. But maybe I'm still adjusting to life without a HOF quarterback.

I certainly felt that way earlier - that we were missing the play of a first ballot HOF QB. And Rodgers just saw things at the LOS that no coach could see. i think Love does fine with audibles. Rodgers was/is in another universe.

MLF and Gluten have handled the transition from Rodgers to Love without a year or more going backwards, as most teams do. Love is not Rodgers, but very few QB will be able to claim that. I admit I didn't like the Love pick. First thought wrong, again. Now I see it as a brilliant move by Gluten.

Anyway, back to the original point - yeah why is MLF standing pat on his coaching staff? One guy that stands out to me is Stevanich (sp?), the "OC". What does he do exactly? I don't know. The team needs a "HC whisperer" - someone who can help MLF with game planning and in-game calling and clock management.

And how on earth could MLF and Gluten let a guy like Sean Mannion getaway? He's the QBs coach apparently no none outside of Philly knew about. They probably couldn't have saved him from such a big promotion, but talent needs to be protected at all levels of the team.

I don't support change for the sake of change, but at a player and coach level, there's plenty of room for improvement on the offense. This team can still win 11 or 12 games/season, but still not get far in the playoffs. They need a little help.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I was thinking about this the other day. Do you think Brady outplayed Rodgers when they played each other, or outsmarted him? Or maybe both? Brady seems like a pretty cerebral player himself.

That's a good questiobn rmontro, really good. Both of these guys had football IQs way, way beyond anyone else who played the game. I'd call it even. In a pinch the nod goes to Brady for the seven rings. But that doesn't diminish how smart ARod is and the incredible career he's had.

I remember playing the Bucs with Brady in the playoffs. It was close to the end of the 1H, and it seemed certain Brady and the Bucs would try one completion, call TO, and settle for a FG before halftime. Or maybe there were no TOs and the Packers were defending the perimeter.

But some rookie receiver (who I can't remember) ran a seam route down the left side and blew past Kevin King. Without safety help, the play went for a 50 plus yard TD.

I don't know if Brady called that at the LOS but I bet he did. Rodgers did stuff like that too, but much to my dismay, I remember that play.

(My recollection of that TD may be off. I don't remember if the Bucs had a TO left. I just remember that everyone at Lambeau, including the announcers, and the TV audience, were looking for a sideline pass to get into FG range - that probably means the Bucs had no TOs). Maybe someone can add to this. I do remember how demoralizing it was to give up a TD just before half time. And of course the Bucs went on to win and then win the SB, Brady's seventh and final ring.)

 

[Heyjoe4]

Imagine the Packers hiring ARod to their coaching staff. We could use a conflict of interest.

I'm pretty sure the thought has crossed a lot of minds - Rodgers staying in the NFL as an offensive coach - assistant to the OC or HC.

I'd certainly welcome his creativity and on-the-spot play diagnosis. As a practical matter, his ego is too big to have the word "assistant" anywhere in his title. That's too bad, because he's a bright but at times insufferable guy who would otherwise do well as a "HC or OC whisperer".

Then again, anything is possible. I'd much rather have him assisting GB's offense than an opponent's offense.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Possible. We will probably never know for sure what happened.

Agree with you and Poker. I think Bisaccia thought for a while about staying in GB with a $2 mil salary, retiring, or staying in football and closer to family in FL. I don't think the six-week delay involved any animosity on his part. That's a tough decision for a guy like Bisaccia.

At the same time, MLF and/or Gluten should have pushed him along for a decision while STC candidates were still interviewing. I see the reason Bisaccia wanted time - but it was in the team's best interest to make a quick decision.

Anyway, you're right, we'll never know and it's in the past. Onward!

 

[rmontro]

I think they played each other 3 times, one of which was when Brady was with the Bucs.

According to the article below, they played each other five times, with Brady having the advantage 4-1. I think one of the games you're forgetting is the Bucs crushing the Packers 38-10 during the regular season, a few months before they met in the NFCCG.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timcas...rs-fared-in-4-previous-head-to-head-matchups/

 

[Heyjoe4]

According to the article below, they played each other five times, with Brady having the advantage 4-1. I think one of the games you're forgetting is the Bucs crushing the Packers 38-10 during the regular season, a few months before they met in the NFCCG.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timcas...rs-fared-in-4-previous-head-to-head-matchups/

Thanks rmontro. I completely forgot the Packers got whipped by the Bucs in the regular season before the NFCCG loss at Lambeau.

That NFCCG loss was one of the harder ones (the toughest NFCCG loss was to the hags in, I think 2014 - but the losses are all hard). The Packers were going blow-for-blow with the Bucs until Brady threw that late 1H TD (Kevin King in coverage and no safety help) on what should have been, at best, a FG. Game, set, match on that one play.

 

[milani]

According to the article below, they played each other five times, with Brady having the advantage 4-1. I think one of the games you're forgetting is the Bucs crushing the Packers 38-10 during the regular season, a few months before they met in the NFCCG.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timcas...rs-fared-in-4-previous-head-to-head-matchups/

Yes. You are correct about that one game. However, it actually should be 3-2. The Packers beat the Bucs, also, 14-12, in an early season game in Tampa the following year in which Brady's pass attempt for a 2 point conversion failed at the end. It was Brady's last season I believe.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yes. You are correct about that one game. However, it actually should be 3-2. The Packers beat the Bucs, also, 14-12, in an early season game in Tampa the following year in which Brady's pass attempt for a 2 point conversion failed at the end. It was Brady's last season I believe.

Wow great memory, thanks! And yeah I think Brady played one season, after he won the SB with the Bucs, and then "retired" to a $37 mil/year broadcasting job. Some guys have all the luck.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I was thinking about this the other day. Do you think Brady outplayed Rodgers when they played each other, or outsmarted him? Or maybe both? Brady seems like a pretty cerebral player himself.

Honestly, I don't know a lot about Brady. I can count the non-Packer games when I have watched Brady play, on one hand. That said, I have listened to him do the lead color commentary for FOX quite a bit. The guy is super knowledgeable about the QB position and the game itself. I would also have to guess that he has a more "likable" personality than A-Rod has had during his playing career. Any decision for a Network to put Rodgers on-air would have to include a way to polish his public image. I've listened to Rodgers a number of times on the Pat McAfee show and enjoy his football mind and knowledge.

 

[El Guapo]

The problem is that people generally don't enjoy listening to smug people, and that's Rodgers' personality.

In terms of comparing Brady to Rodgers, their demeaner was starkly different. Brady had a competitive fire that his teammates generally embraced and fed off of, especially in big moments. Rodgers was highly competitive too, especially in the early years. He was fun and light-hearted but it turned to more of an angry-dad vibe in the second half of his career. You needed to be his buddy and/or be perfect to get his approval, otherwise you got the angry stare down and some choice words.

Rodgers was more of the technician. Brady was more of the gamer. It's like choosing between Neil Peart or John Bonham - one was a drumming savant and the other had enormous feel and energy - the "gamer."

What would be awesome is to have some type of hypothetical competition where two quarterbacks get the same offense against the same defense. There are still too many variables to present a fair comparison, but it would be interesting.

 

[Half Empty]

And, as we somewhere were saying somewhere about our new ST coach...

 

[rmontro]

Yes. You are correct about that one game. However, it actually should be 3-2. The Packers beat the Bucs, also, 14-12, in an early season game in Tampa the following year in which Brady's pass attempt for a 2 point conversion failed at the end. It was Brady's last season I believe.

Okay, i think that makes sense. Except that would make it 4-2. 3-2 in the regular season and 1-0 in the playoffs. In the article I linked to, the playoff game and the game you mentioned hadn't been played yet. Hard to believe they played six times, it doesn't seem like it, but they both had long careers.

Other than the NFCCG, the game I remember is the 2014 game where the Packers won, and afterward Belichick came up and said to McCarthy something like "That's a heckuva team you've got there, Mikey". But then, the Packers didn't get to the Super Bowl (the infamous Seahawks loss), and the Patriots won the Lombardi again.

 

[milani]

Okay, i think that makes sense. Except that would make it 4-2. 3-2 in the regular season and 1-0 in the playoffs. In the article I linked to, the playoff game and the game you mentioned hadn't been played yet. Hard to believe they played six times, it doesn't seem like it, but they both had long careers.

Other than the NFCCG, the game I remember is the 2014 game where the Packers won, and afterward Belichick came up and said to McCarthy something like "That's a heckuva team you've got there, Mikey". But then, the Packers didn't get to the Super Bowl (the infamous Seahawks loss), and the Patriots won the Lombardi again.

What they may be considering was a game in 2006 at Lambeau in which Favre got knocked out of the game in the first half. Rodgers played the second half and broke his foot and the Pats shut us out. I would not consider that a true Brady Rodgers contest. But the one I would have loved to see was in 2010 in Foxboro. Rodgers suffered a concussion against Detroit and could not play. The Packers almost pulled the upset except for a botched kick off coverage before halftime.
Now I think Favre did have a short, but good record against Brady. He beat Brady in 2002 in Foxboro and also once with the Jets.

 

[rmontro]

What they may be considering was a game in 2006 at Lambeau in which Favre got knocked out of the game in the first half. Rodgers played the second half and broke his foot and the Pats shut us out. I would not consider that a true Brady Rodgers contest.

Yeah, that's one of them. I could see not counting that but they did go head to head, so it bears a mention.

 

[OldSchool101]

What they may be considering was a game in 2006 at Lambeau in which Favre got knocked out of the game in the first half. Rodgers played the second half and broke his foot and the Pats shut us out. I would not consider that a true Brady Rodgers contest. But the one I would have loved to see was in 2010 in Foxboro. Rodgers suffered a concussion against Detroit and could not play. The Packers almost pulled the upset except for a botched kick off coverage before halftime.
Now I think Favre did have a short, but good record against Brady. He beat Brady in 2002 in Foxboro and also once with the Jets.

Yeah Matt Flynn right? Had that career day and really created lots of interest. I want to say he signed a nice contract with Seattle and then eventually fizzled. I seem to remember Seattle winning their Division around that time with a 7-9 record. I still think any team with a record below <.500 should forfeit their Playoff spot to the best remaining Wildcard.

 

[gopkrs]

Yeah Matt Flynn right? Had that career day and really created lots of interest. I want to say he signed a nice contract with Seattle and then eventually fizzled. I seem to remember Seattle winning their Division around that time with a 7-9 record. I still think any team with a record below <.500 should forfeit their Playoff spot to the best remaining Wildcard.

I don't think Flynn ever fizzled. Wilson beat him out his rookie year and I'm not sure he got another chance. At least Flynn got paid pretty well

 

[Heyjoe4]

The problem is that people generally don't enjoy listening to smug people, and that's Rodgers' personality.

In terms of comparing Brady to Rodgers, their demeaner was starkly different. Brady had a competitive fire that his teammates generally embraced and fed off of, especially in big moments. Rodgers was highly competitive too, especially in the early years. He was fun and light-hearted but it turned to more of an angry-dad vibe in the second half of his career. You needed to be his buddy and/or be perfect to get his approval, otherwise you got the angry stare down and some choice words.

Rodgers was more of the technician. Brady was more of the gamer. It's like choosing between Neil Peart or John Bonham - one was a drumming savant and the other had enormous feel and energy - the "gamer."

What would be awesome is to have some type of hypothetical competition where two quarterbacks get the same offense against the same defense. There are still too many variables to present a fair comparison, but it would be interesting.

Very interesting points EG, thanks.

Yeah Rodgers comes across as smug. I think it's the reason he wasn't offered the job as Jeopardy host.

And I'm a Bonham fan. IMO he's the greatest rock drummer, ever. A gamer, as you say, not a technician. That's also a good way to differentiate Rodgers and Brady. Two very different guys who will be in the HOF.