Special Teams

[El Guapo]

No, this is not titled "Fire Rich Bisaccia" and I don't intend it to be a hit thread. My main reasoning is that the Packers special teams have been poor for many years over many coaches. There is a fundamental problem that even the "best" ST coach hasn't been able to fix. The GM gave him a great punter, a good PK, and a capable long snapper. IMO it is the job of the ST coach to wrangle all of the cats at the bottom of the roster and turn them into productive ST players. We keep having let downs.

I'd still like to know why Tucker Kraft was on the left side against Cleveland for the blocked FG attempt. Where was John FitzPatrick? (that reminds me of the old Henry FitzPatrick and Patrick FitzHenry joke....)

Against Dallas, the blocked PAT appeared to have Musgrave blocking the outside guy and I couldn't see the lineman blocking inside - with a third Cowboy who split the two and blocked the attempt. That's an egregious blocking error somewhere.

Then we have a carousel of kick and punt returners making errors. We had guys letting kicks bounce into the endzone so that the offense had to start on the 20yd line. We have important starters such as Nixon, Doubs, and Golden on returns. I'd rather keep Williams or some other backup player returning punts and kicks. We should have been figuring this out during camp and the preseason, not still making significant changes mid-game in Week 4.

I don't know if it is bad coaching, poor execution by bottom-of-the-roster players, or some other factor such as neutrinos from space. It's probably a combination of all three!

 

[gopkrs]

No, this is not titled "Fire Rich Bisaccia" and I don't intend it to be a hit thread. My main reasoning is that the Packers special teams have been poor for many years over many coaches. There is a fundamental problem that even the "best" ST coach hasn't been able to fix. The GM gave him a great punter, a good PK, and a capable long snapper. IMO it is the job of the ST coach to wrangle all of the cats at the bottom of the roster and turn them into productive ST players. We keep having let downs.

I'd still like to know why Tucker Kraft was on the left side against Cleveland for the blocked FG attempt. Where was John FitzPatrick? (that reminds me of the old Henry FitzPatrick and Patrick FitzHenry joke....)

Against Dallas, the blocked PAT appeared to have Musgrave blocking the outside guy and I couldn't see the lineman blocking inside - with a third Cowboy who split the two and blocked the attempt. That's an egregious blocking error somewhere.

Then we have a carousel of kick and punt returners making errors. We had guys letting kicks bounce into the endzone so that the offense had to start on the 20yd line. We have important starters such as Nixon, Doubs, and Golden on returns. I'd rather keep Williams or some other backup player returning punts and kicks. We should have been figuring this out during camp and the preseason, not still making significant changes mid-game in Week 4.

I don't know if it is bad coaching, poor execution by bottom-of-the-roster players, or some other factor such as neutrinos from space. It's probably a combination of all three!

It's coaching imho. They are supposed to be aware and make players aware of all the details.

 

[Magooch]

I won't claim to have any one answer (not sure there is one) but I feel like in years past we really didn't want to keep "ST guys" on the roster so much. Like, if a guy couldn't play a big role elsewhere we were hesitant to keep them around. In the "Bisaccia era" (if you can call it as such) I feel we HAVE been more proactive about keeping some more dedicated ST guys on the roster. In other words, Bisaccia has more or less seemingly got "his guys" around and it's still not done much...

 

[Half Empty]

As with a whole bunch of the MLF commentaries, my question here is 'what is the coach there for?'. I mean, how much worse could ST be if they just asked for 11 volunteers each time?

 

[El Guapo]

As with a whole bunch of the MLF commentaries, my question here is 'what is the coach there for?'. I mean, how much worse could ST be if they just asked for 11 volunteers each time?

Are we talking about 11 keyboard heroes from this forum??

Much worse I would think!

 

[gopkrs]

Biacacci cannot be very good. I mean there are a lot of mistakes and bad formations. Not just here and there

 

[Magooch]

The case of Bisaccia in particular is interesting as well as he's not just ST coach but also assistant head coach. Does anyone have any idea what exactly that role requires of him?

Because clearly something is not working here. ST is still a mess, and it seems like Bisaccia can't be doing too much to help Matt's situational playcalling/game management. So...what exactly is he doing for us? If nothing else it would seem like perhaps having him step back from whatever "assistant head coach" entails and focusing solely on ST might be a start...

 

[OldSchool101]

No, this is not titled "Fire Rich Bisaccia" and I don't intend it to be a hit thread. My main reasoning is that the Packers special teams have been poor for many years over many coaches. There is a fundamental problem that even the "best" ST coach hasn't been able to fix. The GM gave him a great punter, a good PK, and a capable long snapper. IMO it is the job of the ST coach to wrangle all of the cats at the bottom of the roster and turn them into productive ST players. We keep having let downs.

I'd still like to know why Tucker Kraft was on the left side against Cleveland for the blocked FG attempt. Where was John FitzPatrick? (that reminds me of the old Henry FitzPatrick and Patrick FitzHenry joke....)

Against Dallas, the blocked PAT appeared to have Musgrave blocking the outside guy and I couldn't see the lineman blocking inside - with a third Cowboy who split the two and blocked the attempt. That's an egregious blocking error somewhere.

Then we have a carousel of kick and punt returners making errors. We had guys letting kicks bounce into the endzone so that the offense had to start on the 20yd line. We have important starters such as Nixon, Doubs, and Golden on returns. I'd rather keep Williams or some other backup player returning punts and kicks. We should have been figuring this out during camp and the preseason, not still making significant changes mid-game in Week 4.

I don't know if it is bad coaching, poor execution by bottom-of-the-roster players, or some other factor such as neutrinos from space. It's probably a combination of all three!

This is what happens when you put a 7 year veteran Returner out to pasture because he wasn’t “one of ours”. You get a Room of Novice level Rookie Returners rounding the carousel. It’s not the season we need an extra couple sets of training wheels to do on the job training. This was supposed to be a Win Now, not an in-season, novice “try out” competition. This isn’t some huge revelation, it’s the mess we welcome when we turn away from a known quantity with Returner experience.

 

[Half Empty]

Are we talking about 11 keyboard heroes from this forum??

Much worse I would think!

Ok, Ok, I meant off the Packers active squad. However, on the blocks, I'm not so sure the specialists plus nine of us couldn't be as effective. One doesn't need to keep the other guys at bay very long, just get in their way (plus, they'd be laughing so hard they couldn't rush)

 

[El Guapo]

One doesn't need to keep the other guys at bay very long, just get in their way (plus, they'd be laughing so hard they couldn't rush)

My coach used to say that to me. However, as a center I would routinely get knocked back into the QB's lap before he had a chance to throw. He used to yell at me and say that a dead cat would do a better job of slowing down the pass rush!

Most coaches create a plan and teach the players how to execute it. The best coaches go on to teach the players how to adjust that plan as needed. I didn't see Dallas doing anything unusual except that they stacked on side of the line. Somehow either our plan was too inflexible or our players unable to recognize and adjust. It shouldn't be hard to shift the blocking scheme on the fly to handle an unbalanced line.

 

[Magooch]

Had a friend share a post with me this morning relating to this topic...

The Packers are currently dead last in the NFL in terms of average punt return yards at 5.0 (Actually, 4.9 when I last checked)

The last team to average less than 5.0 yards punt return yards...was the 2020 Packers

And the last team before that...was the 2019 Packers

 

[OldSchool101]

Had a friend share a post with me this morning relating to this topic...

The Packers are currently dead last in the NFL in terms of average punt return yards at 5.0 (Actually, 4.9 when I last checked)

The last team to average less than 5.0 yards punt return yards...was the 2020 Packers

And the last team before that...was the 2019 Packers

Exactly thank you!

This is why I said we are losing 5 yards per Punt simply by not having experience back there. Now that’s only 20-40 yards per game. Yet 30 yards per game can change a game by a point or 2 on average. It’s 100% not acceptable to rank bottom 5 in any category. It speaks to the fact we made a glaring mistake somewhere along the way.

This thread was made on Sept 29. 5 weeks later we’re still having Punt Return Tryouts in Week 10. If we don’t like Mecoles 10.2 yard average last season and he became washed up in week 19? Fine. Find me someone better
I have this funny feeling if we were #1 in PR I’d never hear the end of it. Here we are at a lonely #32 and nothing but crickets for solutions. Let me be the first to announce that whatever we did at PR didn’t work.

 

[gopkrs]

I'd like Melton to get a chance at returning punts and Nixon should be returning kick offs

 

[OldSchool101]

I'd like Melton to get a chance at returning punts and Nixon should be returning kick offs

I’d put Nixon on PR and Rasul at Nixons spot

 

[Magooch]

That whole Nixon situation is a bad deal all around IMO. We had a guy who was a GREAT returner and solid depth in defense who basically said he wanted to be CB1 and CB1 isn't back there for returns, and we more or less granted that request. You could argue it worsened us at CB and on returns in one move lol

 

[milani]

I won't claim to have any one answer (not sure there is one) but I feel like in years past we really didn't want to keep "ST guys" on the roster so much. Like, if a guy couldn't play a big role elsewhere we were hesitant to keep them around. In the "Bisaccia era" (if you can call it as such) I feel we HAVE been more proactive about keeping some more dedicated ST guys on the roster. In other words, Bisaccia has more or less seemingly got "his guys" around and it's still not done much...

So right. One of our best special teamers during the MM days was Jerrod Bush. He was not much on defense although he made a strange pick in the SB. Another one who played for Mike Holmgren was Travis Jervey, a surfer. Could not hold onto the ball as a back, but he was a tremendous gunner.

 

[gopkrs]

So right. One of our best special teamers during the MM days was Jerrod Bush. He was not much on defense although he made a strange pick in the SB. Another one who played for Mike Holmgren was Travis Jervey, a surfer. Could not hold onto the ball as a back, but he was a tremendous gunner.

Travis Jervey was really fast

 

[OldSchool101]

That whole Nixon situation is a bad deal all around IMO. We had a guy who was a GREAT returner and solid depth in defense who basically said he wanted to be CB1 and CB1 isn't back there for returns, and we more or less granted that request. You could argue it worsened us at CB and on returns in one move lol

It absolutely did. He gets paid either way but right now we don’t have any substantial option to replace him.

 

[milani]

Travis Jervey was really fast

In one preseason game he took the opening pitch out for 60 plus yards. Yet, in another one he fumbled twice. Holmgren had to try him in a few games when Dorsey Levens went down with a season ending injury. His claim to fame was running it in for a TD against Frisco. Our linemen lifted him into the seats for his one and only Lambeau Leap.