"Brett needs a stronger team..." Bart Starr says

[all about da packers]

Lopresti column: Starr says Favre needs a stronger team

By Mike Lopresti
Gannett News Service

The news from Green Bay gets worse and worse. A 26-0 loss to the Chicago Bears ... 35-0 to the New England Patriots ... 38-10 to the New York Jets. Scores so sour, even the cheese heads have gone bad.


Lambeau Field is hallowed NFL ground. Lombardi's house. The current occupants are 4-8, and 1-5 at home. These guys ought to turn the pictures of the old Packers to the wall.

It seemed a good time to talk to one of those old Packers.

"Obviously as an alumnus, you're hurting for them,'' Bart Starr said over the phone. "They're a young team. They're growing.''

Starr, the cool driver of the Lombardi dynasty, retired as a quarterback when he was 37. Same age as Brett Favre this season.

Favre must be the great dilemma for the Green Bay faithful. It is always painful to see champions go, but also anguishing to see them fade. Nothing lasts forever, no matter how hardheaded and stouthearted the competitor. Some have suggested time has run out for Favre.

Bart Starr is not one of them.

"Brett needs a stronger team, a consistent team,'' he said. ``When he's had that, they've won some games. When they haven't, they don't.

"The only thing missing this year is the lack of team around him. When I saw him early in the season, he looked great. He looked healthy.''

But did he look like a guy who should be fishing on the weekends instead of ducking defensive ends?

"No.''

Starr is 72 now, retired in Alabama, still the model of stability. The 17th-round draft pick who played 16 years with the same team has been married 52 years to the same woman.

He makes occasional rounds as corporate or cause spokesman. Currently it is for SecureHorizons, a service for Medicare beneficiaries. So he is out and about this winter, 40 years after he took the Packers to a new creation that would be called the Super Bowl.

He won the first Super Bowl MVP, before Brett Favre was born. And the second. How old is Starr? He played in a Super Bowl when tickets cost $10.

Four decades later, Starr's career will not die. At least one moment of it - the quarterback sneak for a touchdown in the final seconds of the Ice Bowl against Dallas in 1967, an NFL championship game played at 13-below zero in Lambeau Field.

Last week, before the Jets played in Green Bay, their coach showed them a tape of the Ice Bowl. There was Starr again, promising Lombardi the sneak would work - "Run the play then, and let's get the hell out of here,'' Lombardi told him, which left Starr chuckling as he went back to the huddle - and diving over the goal line. A moment forever tied to frozen tundra.

"The first thing that comes to my mind now is how cold it was,'' Starr said. ``The second is how good the Dallas Cowboys were. Nobody ever gave them enough credit.''

There would not be many more days like that. The Lombardi era ended the next season. He died three years later. Starr played on, injured and subpart, out of loyalty to the new staff. He retired in 1971.

"I stayed because of Coach Lombardi leaving. A couple of other players made the same mistake,'' he said. "I should have stopped then. No question.''

They are aging men now, those Packer champions. Some of them are already gone. The quarterback now speaks for Medicare programs. ``When we see each other,'' Starr said, ``we don't shake hands. We hug.''

They probably also talk about the current Packers, who lose badly in the cold at Lambeau Field, and how times have changed.

Interesting article, the second last paragraph was touching.

 

[IronMan]

The man knows what he's talking about. Good article.

 

[Zero2Cool]

This article is very amusing.

I love Brett Favre. I have **** loads of cards, magazines, graphics, signatures, shirts and much more with him on them. Hell I don't even like playing Madden unless he's my QB. Even with that said, I sure as hell will be ignorant enough to think the teams losses are because the team isn't strong enough in the tone that its NOT Brett's fault.

Brett is a good QB when used PROPERLY. Making him throw the damn ball 30+ times a game is NOT properly! If he's throwing it that much he feels hes got to do it ALL BY HIMSELF! That is when he makes poor decisions and even worse throws.


Of course this is all my OWN OPINION. With that being stated, I watch every game live, watch it a second time to remove commercials and a third time to cut out the highlights.

If someone said "Kev, give me three reasons why the Packers are losing"

1, COACHING
2, BRETT
3, MANUEL

 

[greenbegas]

I would say :

1. Horrible Defense with no pressure by the DL
2. Horrible Special Teams with bad FG kicking and punt and kick returning (remember why the Packers had an edge on teams in 1996, Desmond Howard)
3. Lack of a solid tightend. Bubba is horrible and remember guys named Jackson and Chmura.

zero2cool... you should change your name to "zeroclue."

Brett is fine and coach McCarthy is fine

 

[tromadz]

brett is fine, yet the dline who has a man who is a leader in sacks is a problem. Ok.

the dline could be better, sure, no doubt, but to ignore bretts problems is...well...i wont get into your problems.

 

[4packgirl]

what cracks me up is that everybody keeps saying it takes the entire team & coaching staff to have a winning team BUT these same people are quick to negate the impact brett has on the team. it DOES take the entire team & that INCLUDES brett favre!!

 

[dxbfan]

Brett does need a stronger team simply because of the way he plays. And its going to take time for that to happen in GB. If he chooses football next year because he cant yet think of life without it, he'll probably be back. If he's still hoping for another Super Bowl run he's probably best off looking for a trade.

 

[Zero2Cool]

I would say :

1. Horrible Defense with no pressure by the DL
2. Horrible Special Teams with bad FG kicking and punt and kick returning (remember why the Packers had an edge on teams in 1996, Desmond Howard)
3. Lack of a solid tightend. Bubba is horrible and remember guys named Jackson and Chmura.

zero2cool... you should change your name to "zeroclue."

Brett is fine and coach McCarthy is fine

My name here Zero2Cool if you don't like it, ignore it.

I didn't mention only McCarthy.

Your three reasons prove you're the one who has no clue. We are not losing because of a lack of solid TE. Remember we are using a TE to help pass protection and the run. This takes a WR away from routes.
Special teams is not losing the games either. When did we lose a game from that? I'll agree they give up some big yards an make it ******* the defense. So with that one I can see your point, but I disagree. I think there are three more reasons higher than that.
Pressure from the DL? Kampman is 1 sack away from being tied for first in the NFL in sacks! I'm not gonna go more into this rubbish.


For my reasons.
1, Coaching - Kurt needs to be fired. Mike needs to stick with the run more and stop relying on Brett to carry the team.

2, Brett - He has to make better decisions and better throws. He needs to build his confidence up by taking the shorter passes instead of throwing them deep into double and tripple coverage. It's okay to throw the ball away or dump it off to your TE, RB or WR in the flat.

3, Manuel - The guy is plain awful. He's always chasing players from behind. He's a heckuva hitter and pretty decent agaisnt the run. Against the pass he's a handicap.

Again, as I stated before, this is MY OWN OPINION.

 

[Packersfan43084]

brett is fine, yet the dline who has a man who is a leader in sacks is a problem. Ok.

the dline could be better, sure, no doubt, but to ignore bretts problems is...well...i wont get into your problems.

The D-line does in fact need help. When's the last time Kampman got a sack? Or for that matter a defensive linemen? Exactly.

 

[Heatherthepackgirl]

what cracks me up is that everybody keeps saying it takes the entire team & coaching staff to have a winning team BUT these same people are quick to negate the impact brett has on the team. it DOES take the entire team & that INCLUDES brett favre!!

I think that is what people mean when they say its takes the entire team. Brett is included in that, IMO it seems like some are putting the total blame on Favre and that is unfair...its IS the ENTIRE team not just one person...

 

[tromadz]

brett is fine, yet the dline who has a man who is a leader in sacks is a problem. Ok.

the dline could be better, sure, no doubt, but to ignore bretts problems is...well...i wont get into your problems.

The D-line does in fact need help. When's the last time Kampman got a sack? Or for that matter a defensive linemen? Exactly.

I....you.......huh? In the post YOU QUOTED ME ON, I just said they could be better. Wow. And go to the Kampman thread to get educated on the Dline and its pros and cons. Kampman isnt a con, and if you think he is...well....:leaves before he says something mean:

 

[Philtration]

"The only thing missing this year is the lack of team around him.

Is that all?
Well then. I say they just go out and pick up 50 or so really good players before next season and that should do it. Then Favre can lead them to the playoffs before he retires or at least threatens to retire once again.
I can't believe that every team does not follow this simple plan to a championship.

 

[Heatherthepackgirl]

"The only thing missing this year is the lack of team around him.

Is that all?
Well then. I say they just go out and pick up 50 or so really good players before next season and that should do it. Then Favre can lead them to the playoffs before he retires or at least threatens to retire once again.
I can't believe that every team does not follow this simple plan to a championship.
[/quote

Ha Ha!! Yep thats a great plan Phil...

 

[Philtration]

"The only thing missing this year is the lack of team around him.

Is that all?
Well then. I say they just go out and pick up 50 or so really good players before next season and that should do it. Then Favre can lead them to the playoffs before he retires or at least threatens to retire once again.
I can't believe that every team does not follow this simple plan to a championship.
[/quote

Ha Ha!! Yep thats a great plan Phil...

You should see me play Madden on my playstation2 :thumbsup:

 

[Cdnfavrefan]

All I'll add is other then the Cardinal game we've got not much of a running game which is huge. Brett's been great the last few years but I think since about when he turned 30 his longevity has been credited to the running game being first and him having to pass second. If we could get back to a top 5 runnuing team Brett's could still thrive.
BTW since this started woth Starr I've got to add he's won of my favorites. Anyone who hasn't read his book "When Leadership Mattered" is missing out. He never had the big stats but as a game manager I don't think any QB is better then him. The one thing he had though was Taylor and Hornung which made his life easy. Give that to Brett and all the critizism will stop

 

[Philtration]

All I'll add is other then the Cardinal game we've got not much of a running game which is huge. Brett's been great the last few years but I think since about when he turned 30 his longevity has been credited to the running game being first and him having to pass second. If we could get back to a top 5 runnuing team Brett's could still thrive.

Sorry but he is not going to suddenly discover the fountain of youth. He is 38 and has taken a beating in the last few years. I have seen him get nailed more in the last 3 seasons than the rest of his career combined.
His QB rating for the last 2 seasons is 73.2.
His completion percentage for this season is the lowest of his career.
He has thrown 41 INTs in his last 28 games while fumbling the ball 18 times.
His streak of consecutive starts is getting closer to ending with each passing game now that he is both slower of foot and healing.

 

[Cdnfavrefan]

:rotflmao: Phil he must of found an amazing fountain of youth cause since you've posted he's 38 he's already gone back to 37.
Anyway that's what I was saying, as a QB gets older and can't do the things he used to that can be made up for by a good ground game. You should know the Bears have had that philosophy for years

 

[Heatherthepackgirl]

All I'll add is other then the Cardinal game we've got not much of a running game which is huge. Brett's been great the last few years but I think since about when he turned 30 his longevity has been credited to the running game being first and him having to pass second. If we could get back to a top 5 runnuing team Brett's could still thrive.

Sorry but he is not going to suddenly discover the fountain of youth. He is 38 and has taken a beating in the last few years. I have seen him get nailed more in the last 3 seasons than the rest of his career combined.
His QB rating for the last 2 seasons is 73.2.
His completion percentage for this season is the lowest of his career.
He has thrown 41 INTs in his last 28 games while fumbling the ball 18 times.
His streak of consecutive starts is getting closer to ending with each passing game now that he is both slower of foot and healing.

This year verses last year: Last year he had to many interceptions granted, were they all his fault, IMO I dont think so...this year he has managed the game better and yes he has had interceptions just like all QB's good or bad in the league, some are his fault and others were not..but this year his total interceptions were not as bad as last...and those fumbles?? Who is protecting him?? Those fumbles came because our Offensive line broke down, or someone didnt cover someone..or the snap was bad..there are so many things that happen and happen fast in a game..yes those are his stats, but its to bad that "all" QB's get the wrap for most of the bad plays when it could be a number of reasons things happen..

 

[Philtration]

:rotflmao: Phil he must of found an amazing fountain of youth cause since you've posted he's 38 he's already gone back to 37.
Anyway that's what I was saying, as a QB gets older and can't do the things he used to that can be made up for by a good ground game. You should know the Bears have had that philosophy for years

OMG!
It's really working! :thumbsup:
The Broncos knew just how to use Elway at the end of his career but they had a much better team than the Packer do right now.
Not only do they have to have a very good O line and a productive RB who does not turn the ball over, they have to have a defense that can stop someone or they will never get on the field.
Right now they do not have any of those things and it is highly unlikely that they can improve on every thing at once before Favre retires.
There is just not enough time left for him to be a part of a team that might be rebuilt in the future. His window is closed with the Packers.

 

[Cdnfavrefan]

Now that post I can't argue much. Even if they improve next year to a playoff contender it still won't mean SB contender. I think now if Brett returns it strictly is cause he loves to play and I still love watching him

 

[Philtration]

All I'll add is other then the Cardinal game we've got not much of a running game which is huge. Brett's been great the last few years but I think since about when he turned 30 his longevity has been credited to the running game being first and him having to pass second. If we could get back to a top 5 runnuing team Brett's could still thrive.

Sorry but he is not going to suddenly discover the fountain of youth. He is 38 and has taken a beating in the last few years. I have seen him get nailed more in the last 3 seasons than the rest of his career combined.
His QB rating for the last 2 seasons is 73.2.
His completion percentage for this season is the lowest of his career.
He has thrown 41 INTs in his last 28 games while fumbling the ball 18 times.
His streak of consecutive starts is getting closer to ending with each passing game now that he is both slower of foot and healing.

This year verses last year: Last year he had to many interceptions granted, were they all his fault, IMO I dont think so...this year he has managed the game better and yes he has had interceptions just like all QB's good or bad in the league, some are his fault and others were not..but this year his total interceptions were not as bad as last...and those fumbles?? Who is protecting him?? Those fumbles came because our Offensive line broke down, or someone didnt cover someone..or the snap was bad..there are so many things that happen and happen fast in a game..yes those are his stats, but its to bad that "all" QB's get the wrap for most of the bad plays when it could be a number of reasons things happen..

Not all of those fumbles can be blamed on the O line.
Favre is not as mobile as before and teams are teeing off on him.
The Bears have had some pretty good defenses for years but they could not catch Favre. The last 3 seasons they have been getting some really nasty hits on him and they are not the only ones.
He made a killing against the NFL by moving out of the pocket and throwing on the run for years. He can't do that any more.

I am not saying that there is any shame in this. It is just the way that things are and it happens to us all.

 

[longtimefan]

All I'll add is other then the Cardinal game we've got not much of a running game which is huge. Brett's been great the last few years but I think since about when he turned 30 his longevity has been credited to the running game being first and him having to pass second. If we could get back to a top 5 runnuing team Brett's could still thrive.

Sorry but he is not going to suddenly discover the fountain of youth. He is 38 and has taken a beating in the last few years. I have seen him get nailed more in the last 3 seasons than the rest of his career combined.
His QB rating for the last 2 seasons is 73.2.
His completion percentage for this season is the lowest of his career.
He has thrown 41 INTs in his last 28 games while fumbling the ball 18 times.
His streak of consecutive starts is getting closer to ending with each passing game now that he is both slower of foot and healing.

This year verses last year: Last year he had to many interceptions granted, were they all his fault, IMO I dont think so...this year he has managed the game better and yes he has had interceptions just like all QB's good or bad in the league, some are his fault and others were not..but this year his total interceptions were not as bad as last...and those fumbles?? Who is protecting him?? Those fumbles came because our Offensive line broke down, or someone didnt cover someone..or the snap was bad..there are so many things that happen and happen fast in a game..yes those are his stats, but its to bad that "all" QB's get the wrap for most of the bad plays when it could be a number of reasons things happen..

Not all of those fumbles can be blamed on the O line.
Favre is not as mobile as before and teams are teeing off on him.
The Bears have had some pretty good defenses for years but they could not catch Favre. The last 3 seasons they have been getting some really nasty hits on him and they are not the only ones.
He made a killing against the NFL by moving out of the pocket and throwing on the run for years. He can't do that any more.

I am not saying that there is any shame in this. It is just the way that things are and it happens to us all.

BINGO phil...

A fumble is when the player NO MATTER who it is, when they are relaxing on the ball or at least 90% of the time..

You have times when it is swatted away but most of the time Brett is being sacked and it just seems he does not have a tight grip on the ball..

While the o-l can cause the D to get to Brett, it is HIS job to protect the ball once he is being hit...

every time someone complains bout Green coughing it up, those same people better blame Brett just as easy..

 

[Philtration]

All I'll add is other then the Cardinal game we've got not much of a running game which is huge. Brett's been great the last few years but I think since about when he turned 30 his longevity has been credited to the running game being first and him having to pass second. If we could get back to a top 5 runnuing team Brett's could still thrive.

Sorry but he is not going to suddenly discover the fountain of youth. He is 38 and has taken a beating in the last few years. I have seen him get nailed more in the last 3 seasons than the rest of his career combined.
His QB rating for the last 2 seasons is 73.2.
His completion percentage for this season is the lowest of his career.
He has thrown 41 INTs in his last 28 games while fumbling the ball 18 times.
His streak of consecutive starts is getting closer to ending with each passing game now that he is both slower of foot and healing.

This year verses last year: Last year he had to many interceptions granted, were they all his fault, IMO I dont think so...this year he has managed the game better and yes he has had interceptions just like all QB's good or bad in the league, some are his fault and others were not..but this year his total interceptions were not as bad as last...and those fumbles?? Who is protecting him?? Those fumbles came because our Offensive line broke down, or someone didnt cover someone..or the snap was bad..there are so many things that happen and happen fast in a game..yes those are his stats, but its to bad that "all" QB's get the wrap for most of the bad plays when it could be a number of reasons things happen..

Not all of those fumbles can be blamed on the O line.
Favre is not as mobile as before and teams are teeing off on him.
The Bears have had some pretty good defenses for years but they could not catch Favre. The last 3 seasons they have been getting some really nasty hits on him and they are not the only ones.
He made a killing against the NFL by moving out of the pocket and throwing on the run for years. He can't do that any more.

I am not saying that there is any shame in this. It is just the way that things are and it happens to us all.

BINGO phil...

A fumble is when the player NO MATTER who it is, when they are relaxing on the ball or at least 90% of the time..

You have times when it is swatted away but most of the time Brett is being sacked and it just seems he does not have a tight grip on the ball..

While the o-l can cause the D to get to Brett, it is HIS job to protect the ball once he is being hit...

every time someone complains bout Green coughing it up, those same people better blame Brett just as easy..

Yup.
Look at Jake Plummer. He gets ripped all the time yet he only has 11 fumbles while throwing 19 INTs in the last 2 seasons.
You have to hold on to the ball. It is one of the first thing that you learn as a kid playing football.

 

[Cdnfavrefan]

A QB can be defended though on some fumbles when he loads up to throw but a O-lineman has let a man blow threw to drill him just before he throws.

 

[WinnipegPackFan]

Bart Starr is not one of them.

"Brett needs a stronger team, a consistent team,'' he said. ``When he's had that, they've won some games. When they haven't, they don't.

"The only thing missing this year is the lack of team around him. When I saw him early in the season, he looked great. He looked healthy.''

But did he look like a guy who should be fishing on the weekends instead of ducking defensive ends?

"No.''

With due respect to all of us, I think I will take Bart Starr's opinion on this !!!

Cheers to Bart Starr ackbeer: