1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Big Announcement Coming for 2015 Football Season!!

    Be on the look out for a big Packer Forum announcement when the schedule is released. Full details coming soon...

Bart Starr should have been allowed to coach longer?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by weeds, Apr 20, 2014.

  1. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,107
    Ratings:
    +1,058
    http://www.packersnews.com/comments...ause-column-Should-Bart-Starr-coached-longer-

    Interesting column by Mike V, putting forth a 'shoulda, woulda, coulda' thing that I guess you need at least a little gray around the temples to really appreciate....and I don't mean to slam you young guys for your youthful inexperience (more eighties slams - thanks to Ronald Reagan for that quip).

    Bart had 8 years to turn the Pack around and never quite got above mediocre - the slam on the defenses of that era are well earned and deserved, make no mistake about it...and then to be followed by four years of Forrest Gregg's tenure --- ugh, I say ... UGH!!! I really and truly believe that the Packers were only a defense away from winning the whole shebang, and I'm not even trying to draw a comparison to today's Pack. I'm saying that there was NO defense in '82, '83 and '84 for that matter. Makes today's D look functional.

    I remember the squealing section of Packer Nation back then gurgling about the Packers under Bart Starr having too many "model citizens". This is, until Forrest Gregg took over - that wasn't a problem under Gregg to be sure.

    For once, the comments following the story are useful. Good points in all of them -- but I give my nod of approval to Jose Sanchez's comments.
     
  2. Royal Pain

    Royal Pain Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2013
    Messages:
    157
    Ratings:
    +115
    I was at that game in Atlanta. The Packers were up big at halftime, but the Falcons came back strong in the second half. Packers were still hanging on to the lead late in the game when Dickey threw a pick 6. The Packers got the ball to start overtime, but the Falcons had all the momentum and pressured Dickey into throwing another pick 6.

    Of course, that was the same season we beat the defending champion Redskins in the highest scoring Monday Night Football game in history. Neither team played much defense in that game and the Packers came out on top only because Mosley missed that short field goal.

    One of the most memorable games of that era was a Monday nighter in Denver when, during a huge snow storm, the Broncos went up 14-0 thanks to two early fumbles by the Packers. Dickey was unbelievable, though, and threw for almost 400 yards in near white-out conditions. He kept driving the Packers up and down the field, but we couldn't get it in the end zone.
     
  3. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,795
    Ratings:
    +2,904
    That was a good read and those Packers offenses were lots of fun to watch. In fact Starr’s teams emphasized offense for both teams. Starr did lack experience and shouldn’t have been hired in the first place. And I agree – and have posted before – that he was finally getting the hang of the job when he was fired. At the time I thought it was difficult to argue with his firing because he was given plenty of time to succeed. And Gregg, the most embarrassing Packers HC in my lifetime, had taken the Browns to the Super Bowl three years earlier so his hiring was understandable at the time.

    But I disagree the problem was mainly money. The problem was the structure of the organization. Giving Starr both the HC and GM jobs was insane, even worse than promoting Sherman to GM since he had at least proven to be a competent HC. And for Starr in particular, inheriting the Hadl trade was very damaging.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  4. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,473
    Ratings:
    +1,777
    Gregg at the time looked to be a great hire. He was highly respected as an up-and-coming coach. Why it all went south, I do not know. For a bit there, I was ashamed of a few Packers for their unsportsmanlike play.

    As far as giving Starr more time - I don't know. I didn't see much improvement over his tenure. He definitely sucked as a GM. Each season he looked for the best athlete, not the best football players. Mandarich was the biggest bust, but Rich Campbell and that DT Clark were probably the dumbest picks. Clark promised he would not play for the Packers and after we took him (4th overall?) he signed with a Canadian team. We drafted Campbell instead of Ronnie Lott. The OC at the time said on the first day of practice his heart sank. Watching Campbell throw he knew he would never play in the NFL. Now how can you draft a guy when your OC has never seen him throw?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2004
    Messages:
    2,576
    Ratings:
    +1,000
    I think Bart Starr can walk on water. But maybe he should have listened to Dick Corrick on draft days more than he did.
     
  6. Dan115

    Dan115 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2005
    Messages:
    1,782
    Ratings:
    +482
    I did NOT think those were fun days. I just like to win.
     
  7. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,511
    Ratings:
    +1,434
    It's interesting to note and remember that Monte Kiffin was the LB coach during that '83 season. Meyer's defense stunk, plain and simple. I emailed Vandermause to ask if there was any talk about firing Meyer instead of Starr and the entire staff.

    As for the GM stuff, this goes back to my main question about who actually ran the 1981-83 drafts after the Board stripped Starr of his GM duties.
     
  8. Passepartout

    Passepartout Showers of April!

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Messages:
    187
    Ratings:
    +18
    People do not want to give time for people as they do not have the patience. As they lack the time for them. To get used to getting in the hang of things. Whether coaching or playing in a sport. People lacking the time and effort to give people a chance. If they could had given Bart a chance back then and the time, wonder what kind of coach he would had been?!
     
  9. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    3,795
    Ratings:
    +2,904
    I agree people are generally less patient now than in the past but I don’t think that sentiment applies to Starr’s tenure as HC of the Packers.

    Starr was Packers HC for 9 seasons. He coached in more regular season games than any Packers HC except for Curly Lambeau. If you include playoff games Bart coached a total of 133 games (only two playoff games during the strike season), Lombardi 132, and Holmgren 126. Starr coached 3 more regular season games than McCarthy (so far) but including the playoffs, McCarthy has coached in 6 more games than Starr.

    So he was given plenty of time. But the structure of the organization hurt him as did the Hadl trade which cost the Packers way too many draft picks.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,511
    Ratings:
    +1,434
    Well, it should be remembered that while that was a ridiculous trade for Hadl we did have other picks in most of the rounds we'd given up. The only draft picks not recouped were in the 1st round of '75 and 2nd round of '76. More importantly, Hadl was traded in 1976 for Lynn Dickey. So while the Devine trade was initially terrible, Starr did turn lemons into lemonade by leveraging Hadl for a good QB.
     
  11. PWT

    PWT Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2009
    Messages:
    239
    Ratings:
    +60
    ]
    EL Guapo

    I never heard of any talk about firing Meyers because of Packer bad defense instead of Firing Packer Head Coach Bart Starr and his entire staff .


    Bart Starr was fired fired from his position of Packer Head Coach because what happened on Sunday,
    December 18, 1983 ,with a playoff berth on the line in Chicago, The Packer failed to win the game against the Bears. With the Packer leading 21-20 and the Bears driving for a last minute field goal, Starr refused to use Packer remaining time outs to conserve time . As result of Starr's bad decision the Packers had only 10 seconds- instead of minute or so to attempt retake the lead after Bear kicker Bob Thomas kicked a 22 yard to put the Bears ahead 23-21.

    Packer President Robert Parins and some of Packer Executive Committee members were at Packer-Bear game in Chicago and were very upset over Packers loss to the Bears, the Packers loss of a NFL play off berth, and Bart Starr poor decision in not using the Packers remaining time outs during final two minute at the end of the game.

    On Monday morning, December 19, 1983 in Green Bay , The Packer 7 member Executive Committee and its chairperson Packer President Robert Parins vote 7-0 to fire Bart Starr. Packer President Robert Parins immediately went over to Bart Starr office and informed Bart Starr of the Packer Executive Committee decision to remove him from the position of Packer Head Coach

    I can not find any source who named the person who took over the position of Packer General Manger after Packer top management stripped Bart Starr of Packer General management in 1980.

    I could not find any source who named the person who ran the Packers drafts from 1981-1983. I would think the Packer head coach Bart Starr would have had some input who the Packers were drafting in 1981 -1983- I don't know who had final authority over who was drafted by Packers from 1981 to 1983.


    I remember hearing a rumor in 1981 that Bart Starr sent his QB Coach Zeke Bratkoski to California to work out University of California's. QB Rich Campbell. I heard that Bratkowski gave Bart Starr an excellent report on Rich Campbell's work out and Campbell's QB skills.

    The Packers drafted QB Rich Campbell with 3r pick overall in the 1981 draft .

    Campbell was a 3rd string QB during his 4 years with the Packers from 1981 to 1984.

    Rich Campbell ATT Comp Int TD passes

    1981-1984 68 33 9 3


    Bart Starr was always there for Packer Franchise it its time of need .
    Bart Starr is true gentleman . A Packer Hall of Famer , Pro football
    Hall of Famer and Great Packer QB with 5 NFL Championship rings. Bart Starr as Packer QB was great leader on the playing Field and off the playing field.
     

Share This Page