Kudos to MVS - The Punching Bag To Many and The WR That NEVER Should Have Been as Good as He Is

tynimiller

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Everyone here knows I came to MVS's defense more than most - and to be fair I was honestly critical of him as well through it all. However, MVS is no longer a Packer and while some are happy from an ignorant standpoint I figured he deserved a Kudos thread given all that he did and the fact that many fail to realize honestly how big of a draft hit he truly was and how well positioned he just turned his abilities into financial stability for his life (if he doesn't blow it) because of it. I became a big fan of his over the years, and presently going to try and nab a signed Packer jersey of his before they dry up.

In 2018's Draft 34 WRs came off the board on draft night.
MVS had 18 names called before his - only 5 of them can say they've produced more yards than him - of which only one (Gallup) wasn't drafted in the Top 50.
He has been active for the fourth most games of his draft class.
His 17.50 career yards per catch ranks the highest of the draft class (except for Richie James with only a 1/3 of the receptions though). The person closest behind MVS is over two yards behind and is Courtland Sutton at 15.19
He is 7th for the most TDs in the class and is the only person outside of the 3rd round in the top 10.
He led the league in YPC in 2020 with over 20 at 20.9 (an incredible number)
Arguably by the 2021 season was the best blocker in the WR room not named Lazard.

Comparing him to other draft classes over the last ten....
Only 7 WRs in the last 10 drafts picked in the 5th or later have compiled more yards than MVS has in their careers. That means they're entire careers. That list includes Hunter Renfrow (19), Tyreek Hill (16), Rashard Higgins (16), Stefon Diggs (15), Kenny Stills (13), Marvin Jones (12), Rishard Matthews (12) - I did not include Waller who was listed as a WR on draft but is a TE in NFL (15). Besides Renfrow only six guys drafted 5th round or later have over the years compiled more yards than MVS has in his shorter career.

Even crazier...over the last 10 drafts, only 63 WRs have done that same feat drafted at ANY point in the draft (this includes guys like Adams, Hopkins, Hilton, Fuller, Keenan Allen, Mike Evans...) most being 1st and 2nd rounders of course.

Now proactively as some will bring up his catch percentage...I've compiled vastly more than this and shared before...but for a DEEP ball threat it is very RARE for such a weapon to exhibit high catch percentages.

This is exhibited best by some of the best career YPC guys in the league and their catch percentages below:
Devery Henderson had a career YPC of 17.9 and ctch% of 55.4
DeSean Jackson -17.4 and 56%
Malcomb Floyd - 17.3 and 56.3%
Josh Gordon - 17.2 and 53.5%
Vincent Jackson - 16.8 and 52.2%

MVS so far: 17.5 and 49.8%

So yes, that is the flag about MVS - BUT pure deep threats rarely exhibit great catch percentages and he isn't too terribly far off some of the best to do it, especially at a young age with tons of time to bring his up as some of them did.


All in all MVS NEVER should have been as good as he was based on trends of such draft picks...but he was.

He had no business playing his way into a big contract...but he did.

And I would argue those that believe he sucked or wasn't what he should be never actually understood the cog he was or were just ignorant and needed a punching bag...


Big thanks to MVS for his years here, he sure could fly...and if it clicks for him - we all realize he could be VERY good, and for his sake I hope it does click.

FTR, it was a good decision to not resign him at his cost to KC - don't think this all means otherwise.

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Mondio

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Put me squarely in the proud of MVS camp and happy for him. He grew in his time here. To give the 10M per I wanted to see more consistency so i'm ok with him going to KC for that. He never stopped working and worked through some low times as a player and was doing a good job climbing his way back up to a pretty respectable point. I think he'll do well in KC.
 
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Everyone here knows I came to MVS's defense more than most - and to be fair I was honestly critical of him as well through it all. However, MVS is no longer a Packer and while some are happy from an ignorant standpoint I figured he deserved a Kudos thread given all that he did and the fact that many fail to realize honestly how big of a draft hit he truly was and how well positioned he just turned his abilities into financial stability for his life (if he doesn't blow it) because of it.

In 2018's Draft 34 WRs came off the board on draft night.
MVS had 18 names called before his - only 5 of them can say they've produced more yards than him - of which only one (Gallup) wasn't drafted in the Top 50.
He has been active for the fourth most games of his draft class.
His 17.50 career yards per catch ranks the highest of the draft class (except for Richie James with only a 1/3 of the receptions though). The person closest behind MVS is over two yards behind and is Courtland Sutton at 15.19
He is 7th for the most TDs in the class and is the only person outside of the 3rd round in the top 10.
He led the league in YPC in 2020 with over 20 at 20.9 (an incredible number)

Comparing him to other draft classes over the last ten....
Only 7 WRs in the last 10 drafts picked in the 5th or later have compiled more yards than MVS has in their careers. That means they're entire careers. That list includes Hunter Renfrow (19), Tyreek Hill (16), Rashard Higgins (16), Stefon Diggs (15), Kenny Stills (13), Marvin Jones (12), Rishard Matthews (12) - I did not include Waller who was listed as a WR on draft but is a TE in NFL (15). Besides Renfrow only six guys drafted 5th round or later have over the years compiled more yards than MVS has in his shorter career.

Even crazier...over the last 10 drafts, only 63 WRs have done that same feat drafted at ANY point in the draft (this includes guys like Adams, Hopkins, Hilton, Fuller, Keenan Allen, Mike Evans...) most being 1st and 2nd rounders of course.

Now proactively as some will bring up his catch percentage...I've compiled vastly more than this and shared before...but for a DEEP ball threat it is very RARE for such a weapon to exhibit high catch percentages.

This is exhibited best by some of the best career YPC guys in the league and their catch percentages below:
Devery Henderson had a career YPC of 17.9 and ctch% of 55.4
DeSean Jackson -17.4 and 56%
Malcomb Floyd - 17.3 and 56.3%
Josh Gordon - 17.2 and 53.5%
Vincent Jackson - 16.8 and 52.2%

MVS so far: 17.5 and 49.8%

So yes, that is the flag about MVS - BUT pure deep threats rarely exhibit great catch percentages and he isn't too terribly far off some of the best to do it, especially at a young age with tons of time to bring his up as some of them did.


All in all MVS NEVER should have been as good as he was based on trends of such draft picks...

He had no business playing his way into a big contract...

And I would argue those that believe he sucked are wasn't what he should be never actually understood the cog he was or were just ignorant and needed a punching bag...


Big thanks to MVS for his years here, he sure could fly...and if it clicks for him - we all realize he could be VERY good, and for his sake I hope it does click.

FTR, it was a good decision to not resign him at his cost to KC - don't think this all means otherwise.

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Nicely said.
The best part of all? He puts God 1st
 

Magooch

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I wish some stats-machine came up with an algorithm or something (I'm not trying to do the leg-work, lol) that could show a players' "variance" between performances. I don't hate MVS by any means and do tend to agree that he was a bit over-hated at times, but it also often felt like he was so hot and cold where he'd have a monster performance followed by a total no-show. So I wish there was some sort of easy metric to show how much variation a player has from game to game and see how his "hot-cold" compares to others and/or the "average" WR or whatnot. Not sure if I worded that in a way that makes sense or not...
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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I wish some stats-machine came up with an algorithm or something (I'm not trying to do the leg-work, lol) that could show a players' "variance" between performances. I don't hate MVS by any means and do tend to agree that he was a bit over-hated at times, but it also often felt like he was so hot and cold where he'd have a monster performance followed by a total no-show. So I wish there was some sort of easy metric to show how much variation a player has from game to game and see how his "hot-cold" compares to others and/or the "average" WR or whatnot. Not sure if I worded that in a way that makes sense or not...

It’s called being on the team with someone that is a HoF candidate (first ballot) that is first and third read with reason.

MVS outside of few games was every higher than a teams fourth real offensive option for a game plan.

Also that type of hot and cold as you put comes with the territory of massive deep threats as described.
 

McKnowledge

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No ill will to MVS, but he disappeared then reappeared consistently. Great blocker. 10 mil good? We shall see.

MVS was consistently inconsistent.

S + RR - K(h) = BD

Speed + RR - Knuckle Hands = Beautiful Drops

This dude would absolutely shake his primary defender, run a decent route, adjust to track the ball, locate the damn thing, bobble the catch, and ultimately watch it hit the ground.

Cue the head down, head shaking, and defeated jog back to the huddle.

The only WR I acknowledge earned every stare down and eye roll from AR12.

S/O to God for his contract...

And mercifully sparing GB the pain of putting together an offer, that surely would've been for appearances.

The fact GB didn't immediately focus on MVS after the Adams trade speaks volumes.

What's even more cruel than his inconsistency, is that he WILL probably be very productive and successful in KC.
 

kevans74

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Dude, I totally feel that for MVS. Seems like a good guy.

I mean he's really not an All Pro or star but he worked hard and made his skill set work for him


Now he and his family should be set for life financially, can't blame him. Good for him
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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MVS was consistently inconsistent.

S + RR - K(h) = BD

Speed + RR - Knuckle Hands = Beautiful Drops

This dude would absolutely shake his primary defender, run a decent route, adjust to track the ball, locate the damn thing, bobble the catch, and ultimately watch it hit the ground.

Cue the head down, head shaking, and defeated jog back to the huddle.

The only WR I acknowledge earned every stare down and eye roll from AR12.

S/O to God for his contract...

And mercifully sparing GB the pain of putting together an offer, that surely would've been for appearances.

The fact GB didn't immediately focus on MVS after the Adams trade speaks volumes.

What's even more cruel than his inconsistency, is that he WILL probably be very productive and successful in KC.

There were also times where Rodgers grossly under threw him…MVS never once stared Rodgers down.

He dropped his fair share also as indicated and admitted. Rodgers himself at times would get pissed at himself for not hitting him a she should have. Most of his cash percentage is his fault plus the fact he was a deep threat which was touched on and a few miss throws each year as well.
 

captainWIMM

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There's no doubt MVS exceeded expectations considering he was a fifth round pick in 2018. With that being said I'm glad it wasn't the Packers who paid him $10 million a season to stay in Green Bay though. It will be interesting to see how he does with the Chiefs.
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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There's no doubt MVS exceeded expectations considering he was a fifth round pick in 2018. With that being said I'm glad it wasn't the Packers who paid him $10 million a season to stay in Green Bay though. It will be interesting to see how he does with the Chiefs.

100%
 
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There were also times where Rodgers grossly under threw him…MVS never once stared Rodgers down.

He dropped his fair share also as indicated and admitted. Rodgers himself at times would get pissed at himself for not hitting him a she should have. Most of his cash percentage is his fault plus the fact he was a deep threat which was touched on and a few miss throws each year as well.
For me, The general eye test was that #12 and MVS did not perfect timing.
It’s more subjective, yet #12 would take less of the blame simply because he has good timing with multiple other Receiver options (Dillon, Jones, Davante, Tunyon? Which did he miss often? None right?

It’s easier for me to conclude that MVS either ran a route slightly off pattern of his live game speed was slightly different than practice. I’d just as soon have a Receiver who catches 65% of his targets at a more normal 13.5 per catch. That’s a lot of first downs added and a lot of momentum and it shouldn’t cost us $10-12m per season for that.
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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For me, The general eye test was that #12 and MVS did not perfect timing.
It’s more subjective, yet #12 would take less of the blame simply because he has good timing with multiple other Receiver options (Dillon, Jones, Davante, Tunyon? Which did he miss often? None right?

It’s easier for me to conclude that MVS either ran a route slightly off pattern of his live game speed was slightly different than practice. I’d just as soon have a Receiver who catches 65% of his targets at a more normal 13.5 per catch. That’s a lot of first downs added and a lot of momentum and it shouldn’t cost us $10-12m per season for that.

They rarely had perfect timing for sure and it was glorious when they did though. MVS's rookie year especially you could see times Rodgers would cause MVS to have to break stride or even come close to stopping....I think Rodgers was in disbelief just how fast MVS was once up to stride.
 

kevans74

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For me, The general eye test was that #12 and MVS did not perfect timing.
It’s more subjective, yet #12 would take less of the blame simply because he has good timing with multiple other Receiver options (Dillon, Jones, Davante, Tunyon? Which did he miss often? None right?

It’s easier for me to conclude that MVS either ran a route slightly off pattern of his live game speed was slightly different than practice. I’d just as soon have a Receiver who catches 65% of his targets at a more normal 13.5 per catch. That’s a lot of first downs added and a lot of momentum and it shouldn’t cost us $10-12m per season for that.
Dude, this 100%

Fullers catch rate % was around 70% his last.2 years in Houston.


I'd rather just have a guy who can make the receptions
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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McKnowledge

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There were also times where Rodgers grossly under threw him…MVS never once stared Rodgers down.

He dropped his fair share also as indicated and admitted. Rodgers himself at times would get pissed at himself for not hitting him a she should have. Most of his cash percentage is his fault plus the fact he was a deep threat which was touched on and a few miss throws each year as well.

I'm sure MVS is a great dude, he got his money and from the looks of it he also found peace in KC.

The NFL is a bottom line business and the facts are; that MVS didn't produce when he needed to, he was often injured, and vastly inconsistent.

Aaron Rodgers may not be universally loved, but who is the HOF QB? and who's the underachieving WR? There is a pecking order, like it or not.

Of course MVS wouldn't make any waves, the waves would come back and crush him.

He kept his mouth shut and played...inconsistently.

His contract was up, he found his market (10M), a team that wanted him (KC), and he's gone.
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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I'm sure MVS is a great dude, he got his money and from the looks of it he also found peace in KC.

The NFL is a bottom line business and the facts are; that MVS didn't produce when he needed to, he was often injured, and vastly inconsistent.

Aaron Rodgers may not be universally loved, but who is the HOF QB? and who's the underachieving WR? There is a pecking order, like it or not.

Of course MVS wouldn't make any waves, the waves would come back and crush him.

He kept his mouth shut and played...inconsistently.

His contract was up, he found his market (10M), a team that wanted him (KC), and he's gone.

For what MVS was - he honestly was only about five percentage points lower than is normal for true deeep threats - something many failed to understand.
 

kevans74

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Again, I'm happy for MVS. Good for him. He did the right thing for himself and his family financially. I don't blame him.

But the dude was a 5th round draft pick for a REASON. He progressed some and cashed in when he had the opportunity

Good for him, I'm happy for him. I would have been very disappointed if we paid him $10M/annually
 
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tynimiller

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Yet he had, arguably, the most accurate deep ball passer of ALL TIME passing to him lol

I’ve never researched QBs in that specific stat to say if true or not - however doesn’t change the discussion on MVS
 

kevans74

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I’ve never researched QBs in that specific stat to say if true or not - however doesn’t change the discussion on MVS
You honestly believe that if we had DeSean Jackson and Vincent Jackson, in their primes, and AR throwing to them they wouldn't have better catch % and numbers overall?
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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You honestly believe that if we had DeSean Jackson and Vincent Jackson, in their primes, and AR throwing to them they wouldn't have better catch % and numbers overall?

Given the nature of deep balls and their entire career numbers I'd suspect perhaps somewhat but neither of them just had bums throwing them the ball - Vincent was blessed with better passers in his career than DeSean though.
 

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Given the nature of deep balls and their entire career numbers I'd suspect perhaps somewhat but neither of them just had bums throwing them the ball - Vincent was blessed with better passers in his career than DeSean though.
Philip Rivers is definitely respectable and *maybe* borderline Hall of Fame some day...

But let's not confuse him with Aaron Rodgers now... lol
 
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tynimiller

tynimiller

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Philip Rivers is definitely respectable and *maybe* borderline Hall of Fame some day...

But let's not confuse him with Aaron Rodgers now... lol

Let’s also not live in unknowns either. Fact is nearly every deep threat over the last twenty years suffers with lower catch percentages - only a few HoF level types didn’t. MVS is was what he was - and has not come close to what maybe he will be…or he is what he is and will be forever.

Either way doesn’t matter, wasn’t fiscally smart for us to sign him - especially at the price he garnered
 

JimmyTaylorNut31

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Everyone here knows I came to MVS's defense more than most - and to be fair I was honestly critical of him as well through it all. However, MVS is no longer a Packer and while some are happy from an ignorant standpoint I figured he deserved a Kudos thread given all that he did and the fact that many fail to realize honestly how big of a draft hit he truly was and how well positioned he just turned his abilities into financial stability for his life (if he doesn't blow it) because of it. I became a big fan of his over the years, and presently going to try and nab a signed Packer jersey of his before they dry up.

In 2018's Draft 34 WRs came off the board on draft night.
MVS had 18 names called before his - only 5 of them can say they've produced more yards than him - of which only one (Gallup) wasn't drafted in the Top 50.
He has been active for the fourth most games of his draft class.
His 17.50 career yards per catch ranks the highest of the draft class (except for Richie James with only a 1/3 of the receptions though). The person closest behind MVS is over two yards behind and is Courtland Sutton at 15.19
He is 7th for the most TDs in the class and is the only person outside of the 3rd round in the top 10.
He led the league in YPC in 2020 with over 20 at 20.9 (an incredible number)
Arguably by the 2021 season was the best blocker in the WR room not named Lazard.

Comparing him to other draft classes over the last ten....
Only 7 WRs in the last 10 drafts picked in the 5th or later have compiled more yards than MVS has in their careers. That means they're entire careers. That list includes Hunter Renfrow (19), Tyreek Hill (16), Rashard Higgins (16), Stefon Diggs (15), Kenny Stills (13), Marvin Jones (12), Rishard Matthews (12) - I did not include Waller who was listed as a WR on draft but is a TE in NFL (15). Besides Renfrow only six guys drafted 5th round or later have over the years compiled more yards than MVS has in his shorter career.

Even crazier...over the last 10 drafts, only 63 WRs have done that same feat drafted at ANY point in the draft (this includes guys like Adams, Hopkins, Hilton, Fuller, Keenan Allen, Mike Evans...) most being 1st and 2nd rounders of course.

Now proactively as some will bring up his catch percentage...I've compiled vastly more than this and shared before...but for a DEEP ball threat it is very RARE for such a weapon to exhibit high catch percentages.

This is exhibited best by some of the best career YPC guys in the league and their catch percentages below:
Devery Henderson had a career YPC of 17.9 and ctch% of 55.4
DeSean Jackson -17.4 and 56%
Malcomb Floyd - 17.3 and 56.3%
Josh Gordon - 17.2 and 53.5%
Vincent Jackson - 16.8 and 52.2%

MVS so far: 17.5 and 49.8%

So yes, that is the flag about MVS - BUT pure deep threats rarely exhibit great catch percentages and he isn't too terribly far off some of the best to do it, especially at a young age with tons of time to bring his up as some of them did.


All in all MVS NEVER should have been as good as he was based on trends of such draft picks...but he was.

He had no business playing his way into a big contract...but he did.

And I would argue those that believe he sucked or wasn't what he should be never actually understood the cog he was or were just ignorant and needed a punching bag...


Big thanks to MVS for his years here, he sure could fly...and if it clicks for him - we all realize he could be VERY good, and for his sake I hope it does click.

FTR, it was a good decision to not resign him at his cost to KC - don't think this all means otherwise.

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